Has Ham Radio become too easy?

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Spankymedic7

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Ditto

Would it make any difference if the exams were any more difficult? People are just going cram the answers into short term memory, and promptly forget it all hours after taking the test.
Some will take the time to learn it and understand it and some will come with prior experience where they may be able to pass the test without once cracking a book but I think I know what recent threads you're talking about and I'm pretty sure that has more to do with how people studied rather than the material itself.

I completely agree. I was licensed in 1997, and haven't kept up with current exam content. I think that more folks are getting a license just to get into radio, and really don't know what it is that they're doing. People hear "HAM radio", "Amateur Radio"', "GMRS", and don't differentiate between any of them. They come onto a forum such as this, told to "get their ham license", and ...viola'! It's a train wreck from that point on.

On a separate, but vaguely-related issue...

My wife and I were talking about something similar the other day. People get these import radios, plug in any ol' frequency (having NO IDEA about legitimate, licensed users on said frequency), and just start talking. I just heard some folks chatting back-n-forth the other night about finding a local business...on a local EMS frequency. I could tell they were simplex because of the characteristics of the signal...but My God!

Anyway...just my two cents.
 

AC2OY

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Well... I have been in contact with the local club. I am going to give it another shot.

Texan good luck man please don't quit!! The idea of joining a club it the greatest move you will make!! I learned more from my club members in a few sessions then I could ever doing myself. I have had my license for less than a year and I continue to research this hobby. Join a club and pick people's brain that's where the real fun begins.
 

SpectreOZ

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The irony has to be that whilst the entrance requirements for the basic level of Amateur license class may have become easier programming scanners has become increasingly intricate/complex :D
 

ab3a

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People have been claiming that the entrance requirements to this avocation are too easy for as long as there have been licenses.

I was told, prior to taking my morse code tests in the FCC offices at 1919 M street in downtown Washington DC, that I had it "easy." "Why, in my day, you would submit your copy to an examiner who would ensure that your text had at least one minute of error free copy in it, and we used five letter random letter codes!" "Harrrumph, answering multiple guess questions is not a substitute for that."

And so it goes. Yeah, I may have passed that 20 WPM exam, but I ain't holding it over anyone trying to prove that I was able to withstand the hazing, and therefore so should you...

The truth is that this is a hobby to learn. Yes, there is a lot of ignorance. We were all ignorant once. Some of us get over it. And some aren't that gifted. We can never be so exclusive that we don't tolerate stupid things once in a while. As long as we make efforts to improve the state of the art and the community, to teach each other and to learn, then we're meeting the stated goals of our service's charter with the FCC.

What more can anyone ask for?
 

AgentCOPP1

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Quite honestly, I don't think it's the fact that ham radio is too easy. It's the fact that people will go onto these websites that give them flashcards to study from, so they do that over and over again until they memorize the answer without really knowing why that answer is true. If you don't know why the answer is true, then you won't remember it after the test. That's why I cringe when hams suggest to new comers that they should just go on these websites and repeatedly go over it. They don't learn the answer. They just memorize it.
 

bill4long

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Quite honestly, I don't think it's the fact that ham radio is too easy. It's the fact that people will go onto these websites that give them flashcards to study from, so they do that over and over again until they memorize the answer without really knowing why that answer is true. If you don't know why the answer is true, then you won't remember it after the test. That's why I cringe when hams suggest to new comers that they should just go on these websites and repeatedly go over it. They don't learn the answer. They just memorize it.

Then why don't you write a letter to the FCC and complain about it.

Good luck.

At any rate, I passed my Tech, General and Advanced in 1981, before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye, back in the days were you had to show up at an FCC field office at 7AM, eyes glazed over.

Last year I got an Extra, using, what you call "the flash card" method on a popular website. I don't care how much you "understand", the material, you're going to forget stuff that you even do understand. When I passed the Extra exam, I got 96%. Recently I went back on the "flash card" site and took several Extra exams just to see what I have retained. I was still passing in the 90% range every time. It takes people about 30 hours of online study to pass the Extra. (Took me 22 hours.) That's not an insignificant hurdle.

The purpose of the exams is not to make electronics engineers out of people. The purpose is to expose people to certain levels of information, and after that they can do what they want with it. And what they want to do is not necessarily to be made in your image. The "flash card" site exposed me to quite a few things I didn't know before, such as certain things about satellite and digital modes, among other things.

I know several LIDs who are Extra from way back, and I know a lot of great people who are Techs who used the online "flash card" sites to get their tickets.

So, forgive me if I think you're full of malarky.
 
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AgentCOPP1

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Then why don't you write a letter to the FCC and complain about it.
??? Okay? No need for the sarcastic remarks. I'm not complaining about anything, I'm simply stating my observation as to why the OP thought that hams are becoming less knowledgeable.

At any rate, I passed my Tech, General and Advanced in 1981, before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye, back in the days were you had to show up at an FCC field office at 7AM, eyes glazed over.
So are you trying to establish a superiority complex over me because I'm younger than you and because the testing regulations have changed? That's the message I'm getting from you right now.

Last year I got an Extra, using, what you call "the flash card" method on a popular website. I don't care how much you "understand", the material, you're going to forget stuff that you even do understand. When I passed the Extra exam, I got 96%. Recently I went back on the "flash card" site and took several Extra exams just to see what I have retained. I was still passing in the 90% range every time. It takes people about 30 hours of online study to pass the Extra. (Took me 22 hours.) That's not an insignificant hurdle.

Okay, well I'm glad it worked out for you. I'm simply stating my theory as to why it seems there are so many hams who don't know anything about the hobby (we're talking the basics of the basics). For me, personally, memorizing the answer does not help me to retain information. I need to read a book and have it explain to me why something is, and if I don't understand it, I ask someone. And the vast majority of the information I learn this way has yet to be forgotten. Based on my personal experience, it seems to me that when people simply memorize the answer and not why that answer is true, they can easily forget the answer all together. It's different for you. I get that. You don't need to get all huffy about it.

The purpose of the exams is not to make electronics engineers out of people. The purpose is to expose people to certain levels of information, and after that they can do what they want with it. And what they want to do is not necessarily to be made in your image. The "flash card" site exposed me to quite a few things I didn't know before, such as certain things about satellite and digital modes, among other things.
My image? If I remember correctly, I was not the one who made this thread. I was simply trying to provide the OP with an answer.

So, forgive me if I think you're full of malarky.
I really don't care what you think, but I do think that it's making you look foolish the way you've been responding to me. But hey, if you want to keep doing that, go right ahead.
 

Darth_vader

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"So are you trying to establish a superiority complex over me because I'm younger than you and because the testing regulations have changed? That's the message I'm getting from you right now."

Yeah, that's what they do, but don't take it too personally, COPP. I mean, there's another user on this forum who likes to do the same superiority complex thing to me. I just ignore it, like he reportedly does most of my output. Remember, people like that are the sorts who truly *are* killing HAM radio dead, from the inside out and don't even realise they're doing it yet, then wonder why there's nobody left on the air to talk to except other cranky grandpa-complex types like themselves. You know, the kind who'll basically harass and chase any young up-and-coming HAM operator right off the repeater and make him never want to key up again, just because his voice is a couple octaves higher than theirs or whatever, then say it's all these damn newcomers and that damn no-code that are trashing HAM radio.

Completely pointless and unnecessary, especially if they expect to attract newcomers to the hobby *and* retain them for any length of time, but I guess that's just how it is these days. Oh well.
 

AgentCOPP1

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"So are you trying to establish a superiority complex over me because I'm younger than you and because the testing regulations have changed? That's the message I'm getting from you right now."

Yeah, that's what they do, but don't take it too personally, COPP. I mean, there's another user on this forum who likes to do the same superiority complex thing to me. I just ignore it, like he reportedly does most of my output. Remember, people like that are the sorts who truly *are* killing HAM radio dead, from the inside out and don't even realise they're doing it yet, then wonder why there's nobody left on the air to talk to except other cranky grandpa-complex types like themselves. You know, the kind who'll basically harass and chase any young up-and-coming HAM operator right off the repeater and make him never want to key up again, just because his voice is a couple octaves higher than theirs or whatever, then say it's all these damn newcomers and that damn no-code that are trashing HAM radio.

Completely pointless and unnecessary, especially if they expect to attract newcomers to the hobby *and* retain them for any length of time, but I guess that's just how it is these days. Oh well.

Well like they say, there's a bad apple in every walk of life. In my area, all of the hams are very nice and I haven't met any nasty apples on the air yet.

Besides, it really does make me laugh at how arrogant some people can be. It provides me entertainment to see them get their jimmies rustled over nothing :) When you meet people like that, all you've got to do is just smile and wave.
 

WB4CS

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Darth, I surprisingly agree with you. There are many people in this hobby that do run others off, both on the air and online. Another popular forum is very notorious for running people off just for having questions or opinions, and I think we're lucky over here at RR to not have near as much of that attitude.

I passed my Tech exam when I was 14 and made it to Extra by 16. I'm now 32 years old so I'm not quite to the point of being an old grouchy ham, although I can disagree and debate with the best of them ;) Whenever I hear a newly issued call on a local repeater, I make an effort to welcome them to the hobby. I agree that local VHF/UHF can be quite clickish, even some parts of the HF bands are too. My hope is that by being welcoming to them they will start to feel comfortable and be active in the hobby. Online, I try to encourage those that are interested in the hobby, and help newer hams increase their knowledge. I wish that more hams could be as welcoming and informative without coming across as someone that has a complex.

However, on the flip side there is another aspect that I believe is bad for the hobby, and that's folks that have their own complex and have total disregard for the rules. You know, the types that encourage others to not pay attention to the rules the FCC has laid out because those anarchist types don't believe the rules apply to them. Those people cause quite a bit of harm to this hobby because they lead others to believe that the rules aren't important. In ham radio we call these people "lids." Because I enjoy this hobby, I try to help educate and guide both "lids" and new hams to the proper operating procedures. Without rules this hobby becomes nothing more than expensive CB radio.
 
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Darth_vader

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Hey, I think I know which forum you're talking about. That's the one with that Fantastic 2000+ page Word Game thread in the off-topic section and the Ibiquity forum that's almost entirely the same dozen negative talking points regurgitated over and over and over again, right? The one that was just bought out a couple months ago? Yeah, I think I've lurked around that one once or twice myself. ;o)

Yeah, their HAM radio board really leaves a lot to be desired. (Actually, the whole site does, but that's another thread entirely.) Talk about a bunch of decrepit old cranks.

So if you hit extra by the time you were 16 and you're 32 now, I'm guessing that was around the time when all the classes had gone no-code, right? (It appears there's actually not a very huge age difference between you and I.) So that would have been sort of around the time that one really hot young newly-ticketed General-class girl I had mentioned in another thread was being my control operator in more ways than just radio, if you get my drift. ;o) Ya know?
 

Darth_vader

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"Besides, it really does make me laugh at how arrogant some people can be. It provides me entertainment to see them get their jimmies rustled over nothing When you meet people like that, all you've got to do is just smile and wave."

Just for laffs, every once in a great long while I'd key up during a ragchewing marathon amongst the 85-and-over crowd on VHF and drop something to the tune of "that's a big 10-4, good neighbour!" in the thickest fake Texas accent a native Northwesterner could be capable of pulling off.

Speaking as a veteran of the culinary arts profession (if you can call being a Red Robin line cook that graduated Le Cordon Bleu "culinary arts") it's sometimes it's necessary to stir the pot up once in a while. This is both to maintain the proper consistency and to keep the stuff on the bottom from sticking and scorching. Besides, it's good comedy listening to a bunch of dried-up old trolls get their panties in a wad over something as trivial and meaningless as CB jargon on the HAM bands, and at times I'd be laughing so hard at their responses I'd be in tears.

This was back when my ticket was still effective, but long after I'd abandoned any further exploration of HAM as a viable alternate means of communication.

4CS, in your part of the country a "lid" is apparently somebody with improper technique or who dares thinks differently from the rest of the herd (oh, horror of horrors!) but around here it's anybody under a certain age regardless of their technique, disposition or political ideology. For the most part its derogatory meaning has been lost and it's now largely used to casually differentiate one group of people from another. Well, I guess it must be just one of those weird regional things.

Some years back there was a sort of "underground" hamfest-field-day-meets-swapfair kind of deal called (I kid you not) the "Vancouver Lidfest", which was mostly put on and run by folks of the <50 age group, including ours. They were mainly an impromptu thing done on the ultra-quick and ultra-cheap, kind of like a hacker meeting, but I've been to a few and they were definitely interesting. I haven't seen them do one in probably 5-6 years, though. I think they either ran out of money, motivation or vacant lots in Orchards to congregate in. (They were almost never actually held within Vancouver city limits. The city's code-enforcement grunts would see to it that they'd get shut down FAST unless they paid "X" amount of money for a permit and other arbitrary crap. In the unincorporated county they were relatively free of such problems, as long as they got permission from the land owner [if there was one] and cleaned up after themselves, which is just common courtesy anyways.)

You'd hardly see any W7AIAites hanging around one of them, though when one did show up they were the easiest to pick out because they'd be the first and loudest to whine, since "their" [air-quotes] exclusive sacred ritual was being desecrated by the unholy. (Apparently "only they" are the ones allowed to put on a hamfest in Clark County! Yeah, whatever, dudes. Keep thinking that and you really WILL get creamed!)
 

acyddrop

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Quite honestly, I don't think it's the fact that ham radio is too easy. It's the fact that people will go onto these websites that give them flashcards to study from, so they do that over and over again until they memorize the answer without really knowing why that answer is true. If you don't know why the answer is true, then you won't remember it after the test. That's why I cringe when hams suggest to new comers that they should just go on these websites and repeatedly go over it. They don't learn the answer. They just memorize it.

I don't understand what you have against flashcards. I've used them to commit many things to memory over the years. Particularly as they might apply to a hobby. I will grant you that flashcards don't grant anything like a deep understanding of a topic however.

But the FCC test isn't designed to establish that you have a deep seated understanding of any particular aspect of the hobby. Only that you have a general understanding on a wide range of topics that apply to the hobby in broad way.

I view the tests as carpet bombing the topics that are relevant to the class operator for which the test is given. Given that, I think flashcards will work for some, and not for others. I also think that if the test (and the studying by whatever means) doesn't inspire you to want to learn more about one or more areas covered by the exam it failed fundamentally.

Sent from my Funky EclipticRez using TapaTalk 4
 

AgentCOPP1

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I don't understand what you have against flashcards. I've used them to commit many things to memory over the years. Particularly as they might apply to a hobby. I will grant you that flashcards don't grant anything like a deep understanding of a topic however.

But the FCC test isn't designed to establish that you have a deep seated understanding of any particular aspect of the hobby. Only that you have a general understanding on a wide range of topics that apply to the hobby in broad way.

I view the tests as carpet bombing the topics that are relevant to the class operator for which the test is given. Given that, I think flashcards will work for some, and not for others. I also think that if the test (and the studying by whatever means) doesn't inspire you to want to learn more about one or more areas covered by the exam it failed fundamentally.

Sent from my Funky EclipticRez using TapaTalk 4
I completely understand why people use flashcards. It is indeed an effective way to pass the test, but like you said, it does not teach you why things really are, and for me, if I don't understand an answer, I will easily forget it all together. That's why I think that a lot of hams will forget many simple things after they've taken the test, even if they knew it before.

Don't get me wrong, I've used flash cards many times. I use the CD that the ARRL provides in their book, and I really like the program on there because if you get the answer wrong, it explains why it's wrong. But I don't just go into the flash cards first thing because I like to go in depth all of the questions. I like things explained to me. I don't like blindly memorizing the answer just so I can get my license, and although I know that it's perfectly acceptable to do that (no sarcasm), I do think that it eventually leads to losing all of the information that you memorized. You lost it because you didn't understand it, you just knew it was the right answer.
 

acyddrop

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To be honest, in today's ham world I don't think that you need to know all that much. Proper etiquette, how to plug in your radio, what frequency(ies) you are allowed on, etc. But the technical stuff is kind of silly at this point. When you have general class and higher still paying (any amount) for a dipole antenna for example this hobby is no longer about technical anything. If people can't be bothered to attach two pieces of wire together (general class and above) why do you need to even understand antenna patterns? Seems like a pointless exercise to make people learn it that are never even going to take advantage of the knowledge. It just seems to me that a lot of the test is pointless if you're not going to ever avail yourself of any of your rights & privileges that extend beyond the FCC allowing you to key a microphone on such and such a frequency.

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Token

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Don’t get me wrong, having an Elmer (more experienced ham that offers guidance) is an essential part of the hobby. I can’t tell you how many times I was appreciative when an older ham would give me guidance on how to be a better radio operator. So, I can say that I’m glad that new hams are asking these questions and seeking guidance instead of being uneducated, poor operators. To those new people in the hobby, I thank you for that. However, I find it hard to believe that someone who recently passed the license exam could be so unknowledgeable about the rules and responsibilities their license entails.

What do you think? Has it become too easy to become a ham, or is the service making a needed change to keep up with the times?

In my opinion, yes, becoming a ham has become too easy. Of course, I have been hearing such comments since I was first licensed in the late 60’s.

However, I am not really all that concerned that the test questions have become easier. The fact that testing pools are published without variation, the possible answers are all known, and a person of average intelligence can study the answer pool and pass the test by rote with less than a weeks effort and without really learning a thing, these facts do not bother me, things change, after all.

The exact answer pools were not, in the past, available to the potential testee. While the questions were indeed multiple choice the exact answers were not readily available. So a person could not just remember the right answers among 4 (all known beforehand, both correct and incorrect answers) and key on those (as you can today, without knowing why the correct answer is correct), you had to actually know a bit of the background information to select the right multiple choice answer because the wording of the answers varied on each test set. I believe this required a bit more of a basic understanding than today’s format does.

But you hit on a huge factor with the Elmer issue.

The current question pools, indeed any testing pool in the past, do not actually ask enough information to determine if you really know how to operate or how your gear works. Sure, the pools ask a few key points, but they barely touch more than the surface of operations.

There have always been LIDs, there have always been poor operators, and there have always been licensees without a clue. In my opinion it has gotten worse, but then again the trend across society is much the same.

Back in the day (yeah, like that has any definition) you simply did not find a person who, with no exposure to ham radio other than memorizing answers on a web site, would become licensed and on the air. Today it is possible, happens with fair regularity, for a person who has no idea how to operate a ham radio, has no exposure to the hobby at all, to study a few days online and pass all three ham tests. Go from zero to Extra with no contact with anyone who has actually operated a ham radio, and no background other than the 120 questions (combined total questions in the three tests) the testing requires.

I know a couple in person and have seen many more Extras online that say something along the lines of “woo hooo, passed all three exams, does anyone have a suggestion as to what radio I should buy first?” This just flabbergasts me.

When Novice was normally the first step to hamdom an op could build experience while learning the information needed for the next license step. While knowing Morse Code does not necessarily make a better ham operator, the process of learning the Code generally exposes the participant to more information about ham radio than just Code (if the op absorbs that information is up to him/her). In theory a person could use tapes, either paper or magnetic, and learn the required code without any human interaction, but that almost never happened. The process of learning and demonstrating first 5 WPM, then 13 WPM, then 20 WPM, took time and almost universally interaction with other operators both on the air and off the air. Even the people who did this without an Elmer learned something in the process.

My first year as a ham (while working up from my 5 WPM to 13 WPM, a tough step for me personally) every contact I made was on a home built transmitter, rock bound, TV sweep tube final, hand wound coils, and 75 Watts input. Between my second or third hand Hallicrafters SX-99, the home brew TX, crystals, headphones, keys, antennas, everything, I had a good bit less than $50 invested, and this was not an unusual level of setup if you were not wealthy or your dad was not an established ham (at least pretty typical among the guys I knew). How many hams would we bring to the hobby today with that as the entry path?

Yes, ham radio has gotten easier, too easy in my opinion. However the alternative is to turn people away to Xbox, iTunes, online gaming, and Hamsphere. What is a hobby to do? I am not sure there is a “right” answer.

T!
 

AgentCOPP1

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To be honest, in today's ham world I don't think that you need to know all that much. Proper etiquette, how to plug in your radio, what frequency(ies) you are allowed on, etc. But the technical stuff is kind of silly at this point. When you have general class and higher still paying (any amount) for a dipole antenna for example this hobby is no longer about technical anything. If people can't be bothered to attach two pieces of wire together (general class and above) why do you need to even understand antenna patterns? Seems like a pointless exercise to make people learn it that are never even going to take advantage of the knowledge. It just seems to me that a lot of the test is pointless if you're not going to ever avail yourself of any of your rights & privileges that extend beyond the FCC allowing you to key a microphone on such and such a frequency.

Sent from my Funky EclipticRez using TapaTalk 4

Oh dear. You have rustled my jimmies.

I respect the fact that you have an opinion, but the amount that I disagree with you is so severe that I don't want to provide a real response for fear of acting like an *** towards you.
 
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woebbers

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Another question posed...Why is CW more popular then ever? Most people learn the code after they get there ticket if they are interested. There were always study guides...the guide today is the internet.

Sal
 

kj3n

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As someone who passed the old FCC RadioTelephone tests of the 80s, I've never found the ham tests (1991 and forward) to be very hard to pass. My sticking point was and is that damned beepity-beep stuff. ;)
 

dksac2

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The Technician test was easy, but that was because I studied for it, just two days and I aced it.
I didn't memorize as I would just be cheating myself.
I took the next six months buying everything I'd need to operate on the HF bands and once I got the equipment, I started listening to the bands. It is one of the best ways to not be though of as a Lid because you don't know your rear end from a hole in the wall.
At the same time, I studied the material for my General and learned it well. I took the test, missed 3, but I felt good about it. Again, I did not memorize.
Getting on the HF bands brought quite a few compliments as to how I handled myself, this due to listening to a lot of QSO's and learning what was correct and what was sloppy.
I have no elmer, so I have bought quite a few Ham books, some very good, some not worth the money, but I learned something new from every one. I also read the ham sites.
Looking at the Extra, I can see that it will not be an easy one for me. I'm dyslexic, so math is not easy and there is a fair amount of math. I will learn it and have my Extra some day.

So, is it easy, yes and no. What takes some time is learning the way the bands work, getting the most from your equipment and a hundred other things.
If you make a promise to yourself to do it right, it's not always easy. There are so many different things you can do with radio, it should never get boring unless you let it.
I was never able to learn code, as much as I wanted to. Knowing it is a fantastic thing, should it still be a requirement, maybe, but as has been brought up, there are so many other diversions these days, that Ham radio needs to have a pool of good people to replace the wonderful silent keys we see every month. It's up to us to try and keep control of the bands the best we are able.
I've been accepted by more than a few rag chewers who have been at it for years, the idiots will with any luck get tired of being ignored and go away, we can only hope anyway.
Am I perfect, heck no, but I try my best.


73's John KF7VXA
 
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