Has LASD completely moved to LA-RIC's?

[HappilyRetired]

I see by looking at the database that Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department tacticals have all moved to digital encrypted on the CWIRS system. Or is it the LA-RICs system? Either way, I see dispatch channels are digital and L-Tac's are digital encrypted. Have they made the move?

 

[StephanBH]

Almost everything but dispatch has moved over. The dispatch channels, for now, are still on the old UHF frequencies. I believe C-TACs are still in the old system too. For now, you can expect the new system to be encrypted except for dispatch, but no one really knows how long that small unencrypted aspect will last (once they move dispatch over).

 

[HappilyRetired]

Damnnn...

The database shows dispatch on the TRS but unencrypted.

The only constant in life is change.

 

[tsalmrsystemtech]

If LASD never wanted the mobile units on UHF conventional to be in the clear then you have your answer. It's been like this for multiple decades now. It was always called the BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP etc.

 

[HappilyRetired]

If LASD never wanted the mobile units on UHF conventional to be in the clear then you have your answer. It's been like this for multiple decades now. It was always called the BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP etc.

With all due respect, why you gotta be that way? According to LASD radio techs I have spoken with, LASD has had the beep since they were on low band! LASD has had the beep beep beep AND a CTCSS tone so that when the skip cycle was hot they could tell it was their units. Additionally, it was to let other units know that another unit was broadcasting, or the dispatcher was busy. At City we didn't have such a luxury with our high call volume. UHF had nothing to do with it. Although I worked for City, we gave grief to County that worked adjacent to us every chance we got. We often worked with Malibu and Lost Hills units until I went to RHD and then OCID. The beep was never intended to obfuscate what was being said by units. Your assumption has nothing at all to do with poor man's encryption or UHF. It is a channel busy indicator.

 

[ladn]

At City we didn't have such a luxury with our high call volume. UHF had nothing to do with it

Remember back to the time when LASD was on VHF low band and LAPD was on VHF high band? LAPD radios (in patrol vehicles) had the dispatch channels set up like a repeater channel with different RX/TX frequencies, but the units could not hear each other--only the dispatcher. Supervisor vehicles had another "cheater" radio that could monitor the dispatch channel input frequency. Pretty much everyone had Tac 1 and Tac 2 as simplex car-to-car channels, Metro eventually got their own VHF simplex channel and there were a couple of other VHF channels for special units.

Handheld radios (called a "CC" unit I recall) were few and far between. There were only like 8 channels for the whole city. No MDTs. No cell phones. The old timers still knew where the (few) working "Gamewells" were. If confidential information needed to be exchanged, a pay phone had to be found.

 

[d119]

Your assumption has nothing at all to do with poor man's encryption or UHF. It is a channel busy indicator.

And the reason it exists in the first place is so that ALL radio traffic HAS to be routed through the dispatcher. Units can't pass information back and forth amongst each other without the dispatcher capturing and logging all of it in CAD. Exceptions obviously are crime broadcasts and pursuits, etc; but the purpose is so the dispatcher cannot be left out of the loop.

If LASD never wanted the mobile units on UHF conventional to be in the clear then you have your answer. It's been like this for multiple decades now. It was always called the BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP etc.

 

[HappilyRetired]

Remember back to the time when LASD was on VHF low band and LAPD was on VHF high band? LAPD radios (in patrol vehicles) had the dispatch channels set up like a repeater channel with different RX/TX frequencies, but the units could not hear each other--only the dispatcher. Supervisor vehicles had another "cheater" radio that could monitor the dispatch channel input frequency. Pretty much everyone had Tac 1 and Tac 2 as simplex car-to-car channels, Metro eventually got their own VHF simplex channel and there were a couple of other VHF channels for special units.

Um... what? I joined LAPD in 1977 and we were on VHF with eight channel radios. It was in the early 1980s that we switched to UHF and every officer got assigned a ROVER - what was referred to by most outside officers as an HT because that's what Motorola called them. It was referred to as a ROVER because we could take it anywhere with us. We were not on repeaters in the 1970s. Special units were on UHF. Then in the early 1980s everything changed and each division and each station had their own channel. We kept Tac 1 for Hot Shots because the helicopter would listen there and dispatch could always get a hold of them. Tac 1 was also used by detectives and other services traveling in and outside of the city. Our main transmitter was on top of Mount Lee where the Hollywood sign is. There were a lot of dead spots.

 

[ladn]

Um... what? I joined LAPD in 1977 and we were on VHF with eight channel radios. It was in the early 1980s that we switched to UHF and every officer got assigned a ROVER

I remember the switchover from VHF to UHF (analog) was around the time of the '84 Olympics. The system wasn't fully built out and there were lots of dead spots. LAPD's "X" Division handled the techie stuff. The department went full P-25 later in the 80's ('87 or '88 I think). It was the same day the Lakers had a championship parade.

LAPD never had a VHF repeater system (as we know them), but the dispatch channels on the radios were set up like a repeater channel. I remember reading that Chief Parker was opposed to allowing units direct communication with each other, fearing "loss of control".

ROVER was a clever acronym. It actually stood for Remote Out of Vehicle Emergency Radio, and, as handhelds, the radios could "rove" with the officer. In those early ROVER days, I remember hearing on the air check-ins from the officers at the beginning of the shift with their vehicle shop number, shotgun number and ROVER numbers. (There weren't enough radios for everyone to have a take home unit and radios had to be checked out/in each shift). To save money, many LAPD units had ConvertaComs rather than dedicated mobile radios.

In the VHF days, many unmarked ("plain wrap") units had the Antenna Specialists VHF disguise antennas located on the passenger side front cowling where the AM broadcast antenna would normally go. After the UHF switchover, unmarked units either relied on the ROVERS or had the ConvertaCom (or mobile) antenna as a 1/4 wave UHF spike on the inside rear deck behind the back seat. Clever cops would put a Kleenex box or baseball cap over the antenna to further hide it.

 

[Randyk4661]

With all due respect, why you gotta be that way? According to LASD radio techs I have spoken with, LASD has had the beep since they were on low band! LASD has had the beep beep beep AND a CTCSS tone so that when the skip cycle was hot they could tell it was their units. Additionally, it was to let other units know that another unit was broadcasting, or the dispatcher was busy. At City we didn't have such a luxury with our high call volume. UHF had nothing to do with it. Although I worked for City, we gave grief to County that worked adjacent to us every chance we got. We often worked with Malibu and Lost Hills units until I went to RHD and then OCID. The beep was never intended to obfuscate what was being said by units. Your assumption has nothing at all to do with poor man's encryption or UHF. It is a channel busy indicator.

I can verify that LASO has had the beep for decades.
I listened to then from about 1971 or so.
The beep back then was much louder more harsh than the subdued beep they have now.
Someone once told me the beep was not only to keep units from talking over each other but was to keep people from hearing them talk about something while standing next to a patrol car at crime scene.
When they transition to the RICS system, I believe they will continue the beeping even if they go encrypted just so the friends next to the patrol car can't text their buddy how to hide from them.

 

[ladn]

I can verify that LASO has had the beep for decades.
I listened to then from about 1971 or so.

So did I! 39MHz VHF lowband. Channe; 1 was dispatch and Channel 2 was car-to-car simplex (later known as "Charlie").

The beep was a busy signal, nothing more. It alerted units the dispatcher was busy (or another unit was transmitting important information) and to avoid using the radio. This was in the days prior to computer terminals at every desk and 10-28/10-29 requests were handled manually or via teletype.

Remember the occasional "training messages" Station B would broadcast during the day, or a request for a particular unit to "10-37" (with the appropriate response of "KMA 628"?

 

[ChicagoRadio736]

I remember the switchover from VHF to UHF (analog) was around the time of the '84 Olympics. The system wasn't fully built out and there were lots of dead spots. LAPD's "X" Division handled the techie stuff. The department went full P-25 later in the 80's ('87 or '88 I think). It was the same day the Lakers had a championship parade.

LAPD never had a VHF repeater system (as we know them), but the dispatch channels on the radios were set up like a repeater channel. I remember reading that Chief Parker was opposed to allowing units direct communication with each other, fearing "loss of control".

ROVER was a clever acronym. It actually stood for Remote Out of Vehicle Emergency Radio, and, as handhelds, the radios could "rove" with the officer. In those early ROVER days, I remember hearing on the air check-ins from the officers at the beginning of the shift with their vehicle shop number, shotgun number and ROVER numbers. (There weren't enough radios for everyone to have a take home unit and radios had to be checked out/in each shift). To save money, many LAPD units had ConvertaComs rather than dedicated mobile radios.

In the VHF days, many unmarked ("plain wrap") units had the Antenna Specialists VHF disguise antennas located on the passenger side front cowling where the AM broadcast antenna would normally go. After the UHF switchover, unmarked units either relied on the ROVERS or had the ConvertaCom (or mobile) antenna as a 1/4 wave UHF spike on the inside rear deck behind the back seat. Clever cops would put a Kleenex box or baseball cap over the antenna to further hide it.

LAPD did not go digital until 2001 they had digital radios (Astro Sabers Model 3) but they operated in analog until 2001. I moved from California in 1996 and they were still analog. I would visit back every summer until about 2007. They for sure made the switch in 2001. In 2000 I was at a incident at Venice Beach and they were still analog. This whole subject is documented on the Batlabs site.

 

[Randyk4661]

Ah yes, the ROVER radios. Big clunky radios that fit in the ConvertaCom leaving only one radio for a two man unit.
Old technology at that time.
I also remember when they went to DVP (First generation Astro Radios?) for the Olympics, the radios were a crap shoot if they could talk to each other.
They would switch to digital mode only find out they were in analog mode and everyone could hear what was being said in the clear.
When the digital did work, they couldn't talk 200' - 300' sometimes, always garbled.

 

[ladn]

LAPD did not go digital until 2001

Yes, my bad for missing it by a few years. I do remember the changeover happened on the day of a Lakers victory parade downtown.

There weren't many P-25 capable scanners at the time. We had to scramble to get two BC-250D's with the P-25 card. I recall the combined cost (radio + card) was around $900. I still have both radios! One serves as my primary scanner; the other is nearly DOA. Too bad Uniden won't release the service literature. Even with parts n/a, I'd like to at least be able to tune them up.

 

[ChicagoRadio736]

Yes, my bad for missing it by a few years. I do remember the changeover happened on the day of a Lakers victory parade downtown.

There weren't many P-25 capable scanners at the time. We had to scramble to get two BC-250D's with the P-25 card. I recall the combined cost (radio + card) was around $900. I still have both radios! One serves as my primary scanner; the other is nearly DOA. Too bad Uniden won't release the service literature. Even with parts n/a, I'd like to at least be able to tune them up.

Yeah in 2001 when I went back for a visit, I had my 200xlt and a Realistic the one with the most channels at the time and couldn't get LAPD. So, I asked like 5 cops what was going on with the frequency?? They had no idea what I was talking about lol. It was a LAFD battalion chief that told me about the switch

 

[scottyhetzel]

Astro Sabers were state of the art, tri band. Buddy from Alhambra Police showed me all the channels it had, vhf, uhf and 800 mhz.. They were crazy tall with the extended battery. This thread brought back some good memories. In the late 70 I had a RS scanner with crystals and watched Temple Station cruise around with those full wave low - band whips. Deputies had no Rovers....had to have radio broadcast at a call and the clip the mic to the lightbar while out of unit. @ LADN loved that scanner you have ....old school. The hot shot frequency vhf 154.830 i think use to hit San Bernardino area... crazy to hear all the wild stuff while rolling into La Co..

 

[ChicagoRadio736]

Astro Sabers were state of the art, tri band. Buddy from Alhambra Police showed me all the channels it had, vhf, uhf and 800 mhz.. They were crazy tall with the extended battery. This thread brought back some good memories. In the late 70 I had a RS scanner with crystals and watched Temple Station cruise around with those full wave low - band whips. Deputies had no Rovers....had to have radio broadcast at a call and the clip the mic to the lightbar while out of unit. @ LADN loved that scanner you have ....old school. The hot shot frequency vhf 154.830 i think use to hit San Bernardino area... crazy to hear all the wild stuff while rolling into La Co..

They came in three different bands, but the radios were not tri band.

 

[Firebuff66]

I have 4 sabers and use them still. My UHF still RX better than My U/V APX. I even sent the APX to Motorola for tuning and the Saber still RX better, No a huge difference but noticeable.
Great radios still

 

[scottyhetzel]

They came in three different bands, but the radios were not tri band.

Ok, thanks, maybe he was receiving VHF but not TX on the channel.

 

[mikegilbert]

I still rock my EX-LAPD Astro Saber 3 on occasion. Sadly the smooth knobs are gone, so I've got the regular ones on it.