Help Understanding GMRS Regulations

[onexco]

I'm considering getting a GMRS license for family use on a ranch and would really appreciate some help. I have read through the FCC regulations regarding GMRS and before I buy a license and equipment I want to make sure I understand the rules. Below is my interpretation of the regulations. Please correct me if I'm wrong or add anything I missed.

1. Only the GMRS 462 frequencies not shared with FRS can be used for simplex operations with up to 50 watts of power.

2. The GMRS 467 frequencies can not be used for simplex operations. They can only be used for the TX portion of a repeater when paired with the matching 462 frequency. They can be used in this role with up to 50 watts of power.

3. The 462 frequencies shared with the FRS can only be used for simplex operations with up to 5 watts of power.

I have one last question concerning equipment. When shopping for a radio what would be the minimum number of memory channels needed to get full use of the GMRS frequencies? If my interpretation above is correct then it would seem I would need the following.

8 Memory Channels for the GMRS only 462 simplex frequencies.
7 Memory Channels for the GMRS/FRS simplex frequencies.
8 Memory Channels for the repeater channels.
Total 23 Memory Channels

I'm sorry if this has been discussed before but I didn't come up with anything after searching. I appreciate your help.

 

[rapidcharger]

1.) Correct. Although the interstitial channels are 5 watts max.

2.) Correct.

3.) Correct.

Bonus Question answer) 15 channels. 8 for the repeater outputs and simplex channels and 7 for the interstitials and for those the radio will have to be programmed for low power make sure your radio can be programmed for low power if that's important to you.

 

[onexco]

rapidcharger,

Thanks for your response. However, I'm not sure I understand why I only need 15 memory channels. It seems to me I would need at least 23 like I posted below.

8 Memory Channels for the 50 watt GMRS only 462 simplex frequencies.
7 Memory Channels for the 5 watt GMRS/FRS interstitial simplex frequencies.
8 Memory Channels for the 462/467 repeater channels.
Total 23 Memory Channels

If I just have the 15 you suggested then I would not have memory channels for simplex operations of the eight "GMRS Only" 462 frequencies. If I were to hear somebody transmitting simplex on say 462.600 then I would not be able to transmit simplex back to them. I would only be able to transmit to 462.600 through a repeater using 467.600 for TX. Am I missing something here?

I guess what would really help me is if somebody could post the ideal way to program a licensed GMRS radio or post a link to a page that would show that information.

Also, I really don't understand why the FCC would allow the FRS to share frequencies with GMRS. It makes absolutely no sense to me and seems to defeat the purpose of the licensed GMRS frequencies.

 

[jhooten]

Are not the Simplex channels also the repeater inputs? Could one not use only 8 memory slots for them and use Talk Around when simplex is needed and thereby be able to get by with a more common, and less expensive 16 mode radio?

 

[onexco]

jhooten,

Yes, the simplex channels are the repeater RX channels and a Talk Around option would work. I was just trying to determine the number of memory channels needed to cover all options.

 

[SteveC0625]

I just posted a similar response in another GMRS thread that is currently active. The Motorola MR355 and MR356 hand helds will do all of the interstitials and the GMRS simplex and repeater channels. At least their specs say they do.

 

[onexco]

Thanks Steve. I was planning on getting a couple of handhelds and also thinking about putting some more powerful mobile units in the vehicles and the house. I might as well get the full benefit of the GMRS license and use more powerful radios. Maybe with the extra power I may not need a repeater set up. The ranch is relatively flat with the exception of a creek bed running through it.

A friend of mine recommended the TYT 9000 UHF radio. He said they are very easy to program and can put out up to 50 watts or can be turned down for the GMRS/FRS channels. I looked around the internet and they can be bought for around $160.00. Seems like a pretty good choice to me. He has been using a couple of them on his ranch for about two months now and said they have been great so far. I just wanted to make sure I understood the GMRS rules before I go to the expense of the license and equipment.

 

[rapidcharger]

rapidcharger,

Thanks for your response. However, I'm not sure I understand why I only need 15 memory channels. It seems to me I would need at least 23 like I posted below.

8 Memory Channels for the 50 watt GMRS only 462 simplex frequencies.
7 Memory Channels for the 5 watt GMRS/FRS interstitial simplex frequencies.
8 Memory Channels for the 462/467 repeater channels.
Total 23 Memory Channels

If I just have the 15 you suggested then I would not have memory channels for simplex operations of the eight "GMRS Only" 462 frequencies. If I were to hear somebody transmitting simplex on say 462.600 then I would not be able to transmit simplex back to them. I would only be able to transmit to 462.600 through a repeater using 467.600 for TX. Am I missing something here?

I guess what would really help me is if somebody could post the ideal way to program a licensed GMRS radio or post a link to a page that would show that information.

Also, I really don't understand why the FCC would allow the FRS to share frequencies with GMRS. It makes absolutely no sense to me and seems to defeat the purpose of the licensed GMRS frequencies.

I was thinking talkaround or just using them as repeater channels. If you radio wont do talkaround or even if it does do talkaround, if it doesn't have a display to let you know if it's in that mode or not, yes then having 8 extra channels will be helpful.

Thanks Steve. I was planning on getting a couple of handhelds and also thinking about putting some more powerful mobile units in the vehicles and the house. I might as well get the full benefit of the GMRS license and use more powerful radios. Maybe with the extra power I may not need a repeater set up. The ranch is relatively flat with the exception of a creek bed running through it.

A friend of mine recommended the TYT 9000 UHF radio. He said they are very easy to program and can put out up to 50 watts or can be turned down for the GMRS/FRS channels. I looked around the internet and they can be bought for around $160.00. Seems like a pretty good choice to me. He has been using a couple of them on his ranch for about two months now and said they have been great so far. I just wanted to make sure I understood the GMRS rules before I go to the expense of the license and equipment.

I don't think the TYTs are part 95 accepted. You can find out though if you have the FCC ID number.

 

[jhooten]

jhooten,

Yes, the simplex channels are the repeater RX channels and a Talk Around option would work. I was just trying to determine the number of memory channels needed to cover all options.

Just wondering. A box of 16 chan. UHF HT1Ks are supposed to coming up on a local surplus sale soon.

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

Take note that the shared FRS/GMRS channels have a 5 watts Effective Radiated Power limit under the GMRS. Not a 5 watts power output limit. Your radio's output power plus the gain of the antenna minus the loss in your coax, cannot exceed 5 watts ERP.

 

[onexco]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

Take note that the shared FRS/GMRS channels have a 5 watts Effective Radiated Power limit under the GMRS. Not a 5 watts power output limit. Your radio's output power plus the gain of the antenna minus the loss in your coax, cannot exceed 5 watts ERP.

Now this is really getting complicated!

The TYT radio is Part 90 certified. So I guess that wouldn't work for Part 95? I have noticed some posts that seem to suggest a Part 90 radio would work for Part 95.

What would be a good 50 watt mobile radio that is Part 95 certified?

Thanks everybody for your help.

 

[onexco]

Just wondering. A box of 16 chan. UHF HT1Ks are supposed to coming up on a local surplus sale soon.

Would that be on this site? Thanks.

 

[jhooten]

I got the info from a tech working with a local business trying to recoup some of their new equipment cost after the narrow band upgrade. They have sorted out all the D models to keep them for spares and are disposing of the A and B models. The tech said some time this summer.

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

In order to be legal, you'd need a radio that is Part 95 certificated. You could use a Part 90 radio, but it would be technically a violation of the rules. I'll leave it up to you and your conscience.
The older Kenwood TK-805D-1 is frequently suggested.

 

[jhooten]

Dammit, looked on the wrong line.

 

[onexco]

Thanks for the info guys.

I have another question regarding GMRS repeaters. The regulations don't address the use of PL tones. I also found a list of GMRS repeaters around the country and no tones were listed. Is it legal for GMRS repeaters to use squelch tones?

 

[SteveC0625]

Thanks for the info guys.

I have another question regarding GMRS repeaters. The regulations don't address the use of PL tones. I also found a list of GMRS repeaters around the country and no tones were listed. Is it legal for GMRS repeaters to use squelch tones?

There are no regulations regarding tone squelch in Part 95. Therefore, they are legit.

BTW, many of the repeaters listed on MYGRMS.COM do indeed have PL tones.

 

[onexco]

I don't see the tones on mygmrs.com. I'm looking at it with an iPad though. Sometimes websites don't work properly on this. I'll try it tomorrow on a regular computer.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

PL's are okay. The suggested channel 9 of GMRS is channel 6 (going off Icom's numbering, 462.675/467.675 PL 141.3). There isn't a 50W Part 95 radio out there. Most of your Part 90/95 radios will be 35W or 40W since no one has really gotten 95 certification this century. GE/Midland makes a 40W radio that is Part 95 approved. Kenwood made some 35W radios. Most of your handhelds (I believe the GP300s have 95 acceptance) will only do 4W max.

The talk around thing isn't a huge deal for 15 channels. Usually you program a 16 channel radio and if it doesn't have a display (F21, GP300 for example) then you just turn the radio off and turn it back on (my radios are programmed to where you have to hold the TA button to get it into TA). Doesn't take but about 5 extra seconds.

Wouxun makes a Part 95 GMRS radio (KGV-888?)...don't buy it. Buy the normal Part 90 version. I have a F21GM, I actually rather use F21's instead since you have to completely field program the F21GM to get it from simplex to repeater and vise-versa for a particular channel.

 

[dksac2]

I think many repeater owners use PL codes, but only give them out to people in their radio club or people they know. Many don't want just anybody on their repeater, others don't mind and freely give the code out.
You have to remember that repeaters are put up and operated at the expense of a single person or a club, not like most other things, the Government does not pay for repeaters.
So as to PL codes, the answer is yes, most do have a PL code on them.
It is usually a good idea to key up when clear and ask if the owner is monitoring the repeater and if so, as permission to use it.

The lack of legal GMRS radios is a problem for GMRS. From what I have seen, the majority use part 90 radios and if caught will pay a huge fine. Chances of getting a visit from the FCC are slim, question is, are you the type of person who does the right thing even if no one is looking ? With the low number of GMRS licenses issued compared to the many thousands of GMRS radios out there, I'll let you draw your own conclusion.
Kuto's to those of you who do follow the rules.

73's John KF7VXA-WQPP214