High Pass Filter

[SCPD]

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This is a picture of similar Horn Antennas, Speedway
Recall how they used to dot every towne ? In the Alaskan village senario, it turned out some of their old system was smack-dab on the same frequency as our testing unit,,,,,
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.....................................CF

 

[prcguy]

Ahhh, nothing beats the sidelobe performance of a Cornucopia horn antenna!
prcguy

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This is a picture of similar Horn Antennas, Speedway
Recall how they used to dot every towne ? In the Alaskan village senario, it turned out some of their old system was smack-dab on the same frequency as our testing unit,,,,,
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.....................................CF

 

[ka9ucn]

Wow!
I think that there is a misunderstanding of what the problem is.
Lets look at what we have.
1 An older analog TV that had no problems until after a prolonged power outage.
2 The problem is not consistent between different TV receiver.
3 The problem was greatly reduced after moving the set and making sure all connections were tight.
4 The problem returned after some time.
I have been a ham for 35 years and worked with RF for well over 40. This scenario when looked at from a logical analytical point of view would almost certainly indicate that the problem is a direct result of defective and or a damaged TV receiver. This is not caused by nor the problem of the ham operator. He has a legal obligation to maintain a station that is within well defined parameters. With modern equipment it is highly unlikely that he is doing anything wrong.
He does have a license to operate the equipment. On the other hand you do not. If you reed the documentation on your unlicensed receiver. You will find a statement to the effect of . This equipment must not cause interference to any other equipment and must accept any interference that is caused by other equipment.
With almost certainly Your equipment has suffered damage due to a power spike or degradation due to age!
As for those that say contact the FCC to notify them that he is interfering with a broadcast service. That is fine and well. Do as you wish but be prepared to be told that you are receiving a signal through a cable network and not an over the air broadcast as some have suggested.
I do hope that you and your neighbor can work things out. That said you are approaching this from a very uneducated stand point. It would be wise not to take the advice of others who are ignorant to the technical issues. You might have more luck just asking the ham to replace your old TV with a new one and properly installing it on his dime.
Smog I do not mean to sound harsh but it sounds to me as you are the one with the defective equipment. As a ham and your neighbor. I do hope he is polite but in this case. I doubt he is in the wrong. Please do what ever you feel is appropriate with the advice given. As for repeatedly contacting and complaining to the FCC. They will most likely respond. First with an explanation strongly resembling what I have mentioned. If and when they do respond further. They will be not only looking at his equipment but yours.

Joe KA9UCN

 

[prcguy]

You are jumping to a conclusion just as many of us have. The fact that the ham operator just upgraded from Technician to General about the same time the interference showed up seems very significant to me. Before the upgrade the amateur didn't have privileges to transmit on most of the bands that cause TVI and now he does.

That's my best guess and I'm sticking to it.
prcguy

Wow!
I think that there is a misunderstanding of what the problem is.
Lets look at what we have.
1 An older analog TV that had no problems until after a prolonged power outage.
2 The problem is not consistent between different TV receiver.
3 The problem was greatly reduced after moving the set and making sure all connections were tight.
4 The problem returned after some time.
I have been a ham for 35 years and worked with RF for well over 40. This scenario when looked at from a logical analytical point of view would almost certainly indicate that the problem is a direct result of defective and or a damaged TV receiver. This is not caused by nor the problem of the ham operator. He has a legal obligation to maintain a station that is within well defined parameters. With modern equipment it is highly unlikely that he is doing anything wrong.
He does have a license to operate the equipment. On the other hand you do not. If you reed the documentation on your unlicensed receiver. You will find a statement to the effect of . This equipment must not cause interference to any other equipment and must accept any interference that is caused by other equipment.
With almost certainly Your equipment has suffered damage due to a power spike or degradation due to age!
As for those that say contact the FCC to notify them that he is interfering with a broadcast service. That is fine and well. Do as you wish but be prepared to be told that you are receiving a signal through a cable network and not an over the air broadcast as some have suggested.
I do hope that you and your neighbor can work things out. That said you are approaching this from a very uneducated stand point. It would be wise not to take the advice of others who are ignorant to the technical issues. You might have more luck just asking the ham to replace your old TV with a new one and properly installing it on his dime.
Smog I do not mean to sound harsh but it sounds to me as you are the one with the defective equipment. As a ham and your neighbor. I do hope he is polite but in this case. I doubt he is in the wrong. Please do what ever you feel is appropriate with the advice given. As for repeatedly contacting and complaining to the FCC. They will most likely respond. First with an explanation strongly resembling what I have mentioned. If and when they do respond further. They will be not only looking at his equipment but yours.

Joe KA9UCN

 

[zz0468]

Was the microwave site one of the old AT+T types with a reflector at the top and the antenna pointing up from the base?

Sounds like a "fly swatter" antenna. I never saw an AT&T site running a fly swatter, but have seen them on FAA installations and things like Western Union sites. Now I'm dating myself! Who remembers Western Union running a microwave network?

 

[zz0468]

*****(Laughing)--- Quiz time. What hunch did my friend and colleague have seeing those old horn antennas............. ? *****

Diode mixers on the front ends of all those receivers. Oh, and circulators. Lots and lots of circulators.

 

[ka9ucn]

The timing and upgrade are quite probably significant. It does not change the listed facts.
The only part that might be a jump to a conclusion would be the time at witch the problem or damage to the TV set started. The problem may have always been present. Just showing up when the set was exposed to a strong RF field and not caused by the power outage.
The facts still remain the same as to the problem and the stated results after tightening the concetions and moving the set, temperately alleviated the situation. It is not happening on other sets in the residence. It is not an over the air system. This would indicate the problem is not likely the result of faulty or improper use of the equipment of the ham.

Joe KA9UCN

 

[zz0468]

...I have other analog TV's and it wasn't coming through any of them.

That, right there, is the end-game.

At this point, you can NICELY ask your neighbor if he'd be willing to help. Offer him lunch. The fact that you have sets that are not affected indicates that the problem is local to the set that is.

The problem is likely one known as fundamental overload, where a device responds to a signal that it's not intended to, usually due to design or installation deficiencies in the device receiving the interference.

In this case, the onus of responsibility is upon you, not your neighbor.

 

[SCPD]

Yes ZZ, it was some alchemy taking place in the stuff connected to one of those cornucopia horns- we never dissected which or what- but I knew posing it to a bunch of tech-savvy guys like you-all it was pretty rhetorical.. (smiles.... and an "A"..... )
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Curious about it, I dug thru my notebooks (and oh-do I keep notebooks on everything I do !)... and notes on that project. From them : -- we were using a frequency that was ours, in the clear- but unknowingly also formerly used off schedule at that telecomm site years before.... all the makings of what was to be the "perfect storm."
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Which leads me back to the main forum topic here of television interference. We were causing the interference- true, but we were causing it indirectly. The FCC had/has no authority over us- our agency is quite immune to any and all complaints. But we- me especially- take a personal responsible to clear up any such problems. In this case, we were not doing anything improper- it was the decommision'd telcomm installation that was actually causing the interference. The Alaskan Village was the innocent party. The key phrase was an all around 'mutual problem.'
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Smog may have an old TV, - just like that Telcomm installation- His TV was working fine: harmlessly living and let living with its (maybe!) barn door wide front end, corroding-rectifying wire connections-- etc. etc. but working for him just great.... as harmlessly innocent as that telephone installation.
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Then Big Bad Coyote rode into towne and open'd up with her blow torch and everything went to hell....(bear with my analogy... ) But though her guys weren't the direct cause of the interefernce, and had no responsibily to do anything about it, they cleaned up the mess.
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The ham causing Smog's problem has a similar responsibility- if for no other reason than its the decent, human thing to do- and to assist in every way he can to work with Smog in fixing it.
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And ZZ hit the issue square when he said to "do it Nicely !..."
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For ye gads!- if I can keep my guys from being tar'd and feather'd for knocking out a whole towne, Smog's neighbor can help solve their TVI problem.
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But play Nicely.....
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........................CF
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[majoco]

Quiz time. What hunch did my friend and colleague have seeing those old horn antennas............. ?

Perhaps somewhere down at the end of the waveguide there was one of those little diodes a quarter-wavelength from the end of a stub. Any non-linear device can/will convert an incoming signal, pulsed or otherwise, into harmonics which may/will be radiated back up the waveguide to the horn to be splattered all over the neighbourhood, although I'm not too sure about sub-harmonics - perhaps reciprocal mixing from two signal xMHz apart will mix to produce the lower frequencies? It's all smoke and mirrors anyway!
Cornucopia was the horn of plenty - so perhaps you got plenty of (sub) harmonics....

I remember going to Goonhilly in Cornwall to see the huge antenna that they built there for transatlantic comms via Telstar - I can't remember how old I was, probably about 15 or so.

 

[AK9R]

Folks, the discussion at hand is how to reduce interference from from a nearby amateur radio transceiver to a television receiver. Let's stay on topic, please.

 

[wb6uqa]

By Pass Capacitors

If it is only audio interference put bypass caps across your speaker. If you have lines on the screen this won't help.

 

[SCPD]

Going SK

I think for the most part we've stay'd on topic- but if there were a few strays, it was because this is a multi-dimensional issue. Often I have found radio hams have a tendency not to look outside their often narrow box of experiences... they can't be blamed for lacking the technical background- this is a hobby- but often insight can be gained from other's experiences.
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I illustrated how a combination of factors can lead to a mess... and though not of ham station origin, there was definitely television interference. Maybe the telecomm analogy doesn't completely fit Smogs particular issue, but lacking more information, and any subsequent actions- it might still have produced some thoughts in others.
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Irregardless, I've run my course on this topic.
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Smog- I wish you god- speed, guy !
....................................................ti auguro buona fortuna !
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..................................CF, SK
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Oh, heck-- I can't sign off like this...

Majoco- I was too young for Telstar, but some of these horns are still around. I have seen them at several sites along the Chesapeake Bay at the Naval Research Lab facilities-- and here's a photo of one of the mother-of-all horns for you-- used for TelStar.... (note the fellow on the catwalk !.....)
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........................and with that, I am done here... (smiles)
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