Houston emergency radio system upgrade nearing approval

Status
Not open for further replies.

wpwx694

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
424
Location
Navasota, TX.
By CAROLYN FEIBEL and BRADLEY OLSON
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

Oct. 14, 2008, 10:44PM

Houston is poised to build a $107 million emergency radio system that will allow police, fire and rescue officials to communicate with one another in large-scale catastrophes.

The long-awaited update comes more than seven years after the struggles of first responders to communicate after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks drew national attention. The City Council could approve Mayor Bill White's contract with Motorola as soon as next week.

"This will make our law enforcement and public works emergency functions much more reliable as we grow in the future," White said Tuesday. "If we had done nothing, police or fire ran the risk of getting the equivalent of a busy signal over the next decade."

The contract will mean more than 10,000 new field radios for police, firefighters, emergency medical technicians and utility workers. It will be the largest single purchase of equipment in Houston's history. The goal is to phase in the project, which will operate on a 700 MHz system, over the next four years, said Richard Lewis, the city's director for Information Technology.

Currently, the city has three separate radio systems: one each for police, Fire/EMS and Public Works & Engineering. To talk to each other or to their counterparts in the county, the three departments must utilize an inefficient "patch" or a temporary "gateway device," said Dennis Storemski, the city's director of Public Safety and Homeland Security.

"You can only do a limited number of frequencies at a time," Storemski said. The new all-digital system will allow for complete interoperability, he said. "We can tie our channels together whenever we want."

Since the Sept. 11 attacks, upgrading radio communications systems has become a national security priority. The Department of Homeland Security has awarded billions of dollars in grants toward this end.

Houston has received more than $40 million in federal grants to pay for the radio system, Lewis said. Other sources include money set aside in capital improvement budgets, and $34 million from a 2006 voter-approved bond referendum.


An Ike example
White said cellular phone service was so sporadic in the aftermath of Hurricane Ike that he often used a police radio, including communications with the sites where food, ice and other supplies were being delivered to people in need.

Harris County, which operates on an 800 MHz frequency, has been interoperable within its own system for years, said Steve Jennings, chief information officer for the county's Information Technology Center.

A series of upgrades through 2005 cost $41 million. Excluding the city of Houston, the county's nearly 20-year-old public safety radio system is one of the largest in the country, boasting 35,000 radios from 600 agencies and departments within about 230 jurisdictions, Jennings said.

The county has purchased 2,000 radios since April that can operate on both the 700 MHz and 800 MHz frequencies, he said. Another 8,000 radios will be converted to work on both frequencies by next June.

All radios should be capable of operating on both frequencies by 2012 or 2013, he added.


County may join in
The city currently uses 400 MHz, but will be moving to 700 MHz, a spectrum formerly used for analog television that is widely valued because it can penetrate buildings and is broadly available.

The city will start discussions with Harris County officials to see if they would like to join in the Motorola contract.

The city will begin a 272-day design period for the radio system as soon as Council approves the contract.

The county will not be able to decide whether to participate in the city's contract until the terms of the deal are made public, including the models of radios being provided and the per-unit price, Jennings said.

Despite dispensing billions for radio upgrades, Homeland Security has been criticized for its lack of oversight of how the money should be spent. Many local governments bought new equipment prematurely or avoided needed upgrades, according to a 2007 report from the Government Accountability Office.

David McIntyre, director of the Integrative Center for Homeland Security at Texas A&M University, said that when local and federal officials have gone through major disasters or even drills designed to help them prepare, improving interoperability often is cited as the most significant "takeaways."

"It is a constant, nagging problem," he said. "And it's always harder than it seems."

Chronicle reporter Liz Austin Peterson contributed to this report.
 

motorola_otaku

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
690
Figured I'd go ahead and bump this thread instead of starting a new one.

http://www.houstontx.gov/mayor/press/20081013.html

Bolding/emphasis mine:
October 13, 2008 -- The administration of Mayor Bill White has signed a contract, subject to City Council approval, to purchase a new radio system that would support all critical police, fire, EMS and public works functions. “At times during Hurricane Ike, our public safety radio system was the only reliable communication system available. That experience highlighted the need to replace our current, outmoded system,” said Mayor White.

The new radio system will have more channels, allowing radio service used by local government to serve the needs of a growing community. It will have enhanced penetration into areas such as the interiors of buildings and basements, where fire and law enforcement professionals must operate. The new technology will be interoperable, allowing different functions – such as Fire, Police and Public Works – to communicate more effectively with each other within the City, and with users of the radios, such as sheriffs, constables and others who conform to the new American National Standards Institute (ANSI) standards.

Following the events of September 11, 2001, in which New York police and firefighters were unable to communicate, public safety professionals nationwide have become more aware of the need of interoperable systems. In Houston, the consolidation of Fire and Police dispatch within the Houston Emergency Center has allowed common information to be shared with both Police and Fire units. The new public safety radio system will enhance this interoperability.

According to Mayor White, “Houston has fought hard and successfully for federal funding to help defray the costs of a new public radio system compliant with the new federal standards, and now we will be the leader among the nation’s large cities in deploying this new system.”

Assistant Fire Chief Rick Flanagan added, “We need the additional channel capacity so that we don’t have a firefighter in trouble who cannot get through because of congestion of the radio waves or interference from other signals, or outmoded equipment.”

Mayor White signed a contract with Motorola following a competitive process that stretched throughout much of this year. Early in the Administration national consultants were brought in to consider alternatives, and recommended a new system requiring the City to migrate to 700/800 megahertz frequencies. In 2006-2007, the City of Houston received an allocation of these frequencies.

According to Tom Sorley, Deputy Director of the Information Technology Department's Radio Communications Services Division, who headed the technical evaluation of the various proposals, “We had two excellent proposals from two outstanding vendors. The Mayor personally participated in the bargaining sessions with each of the vendors over the last two months, and the City’s price is lower by almost 30% than what had originally been estimated.” Assuming 10,731 new radios in the field, which is the City’s target within four years, the total basic cost of the Motorola system will be $107,873,462. Amounts set aside in the City’s long-term capital improvement budget, when combined with federal grants and an amount earmarked from last year’s surplus, should be sufficient to cover this cost, according to City Finance Director Michelle Mitchell.

Mayor White said the contract contained options to allow coverage in special areas such as the downtown tunnels and Reliant Stadium, where current coverage is difficult. In addition, said the Mayor, “We worked with radio professionals at Harris County and CenterPoint and have built in options to allow participation by those entities at very good prices, if they choose to participate and reduce the total cost to all of us.”

The Mayor has periodically briefed City Council Members at public sessions concerning the progress of this procurement. This will be the single largest equipment procurement in Houston’s history. “This just shows our commitment to public safety,” according to the Mayor.

*SPECULATION & OPINIONS*
With Motorola being the vendor, this is almost guaranteed to be an Astro25, 9600-baud pure P25 system. It may or may not be Phase II-compliant by the time it gets built out. Motorola's proposal for Phase II P25 (which has not been finalized as part of the standard) calls for 4-slot TDMA voice channels., which the current generation of scanners does not support.

I like the part about allowing the county (i.e. Starnet) being allowed on the system "at very good prices." Instead of networking the systems together, that makes it sound like they're going to charge for access.. which, in all likelihood, will mean that no networking will occur and the City and County will still not be able to talk to one another. Yep, same ****, different day in Harris County.

I feel sorry for HFD when they realize that they won't have the ability to go simplex on repeated channels in a trunking environment. I feel even sorrier for them when they get their first taste of P25 audio quality in a fireground environment.

The original RFP called for encryption capability for HPD for "sensitive operations." I wouldn't expect to see it used systemwide, but I do expect to see it used for narc/surveillance ops or possibly by the new traffic enforcement squad.
 

Grog

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
2,959
Location
West of Charlotte NC
I feel sorry for HFD when they realize that they won't have the ability to go simplex on repeated channels in a trunking environment. I feel even sorrier for them when they get their first taste of P25 audio quality in a fireground environment.


Of course they can program conventional analog channels as well, bet they won't. Charlotte (NC) fire department has all their fireground operations on analog talkgroups, good for scanner listeners but I'd not want to depend on that on a scene.
 

tunnelmot

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
427
Location
Conroe, TX
This crap keeps rolling on don't it? I remember true inteoperability. Remember conventional? Simply change channels and you were talking to the adjoining co/so/pd/fd/pw. Now they cant spend money fast enough to come back full circle to interoperbility.

I know, been beat to death. Won't say anymore.

My ? Oh, where, oh where has my little 460's gone, oh where , oh where can they be.

Everybodys tripping over themselves to go 700 (or 800 whoever's left), what happens to all to UHF freqs?

Oh, my bad, the Feds will sell it to the "next" Nextel. I can't wait 'till all 700/800 is crammed with TDMA, and every channel slot is down to .00000000005 mhz spacing...then we can all migrate to the "new" VHF lowband. Or we'll all have to buy new rebanded countertop microwaves.

I'll hand to microphone back now.

Rich
 

rattlerbb01

TX/LA Database Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 22, 2004
Messages
2,226
Location
Boerne, Texas
This crap keeps rolling on don't it? I remember true inteoperability. Remember conventional? Simply change channels and you were talking to the adjoining co/so/pd/fd/pw. Now they cant spend money fast enough to come back full circle to interoperbility.

I know, been beat to death. Won't say anymore.

My ? Oh, where, oh where has my little 460's gone, oh where , oh where can they be.

Everybodys tripping over themselves to go 700 (or 800 whoever's left), what happens to all to UHF freqs?

Oh, my bad, the Feds will sell it to the "next" Nextel. I can't wait 'till all 700/800 is crammed with TDMA, and every channel slot is down to .00000000005 mhz spacing...then we can all migrate to the "new" VHF lowband. Or we'll all have to buy new rebanded countertop microwaves.

I'll hand to microphone back now.

Rich

LOL. That is funny stuff!
 

motorola_otaku

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
690
Everybodys tripping over themselves to go 700 (or 800 whoever's left), what happens to all to UHF freqs?
Cy-Fair, the Comm Center, and the rest of the non-municipal volunteer fire departments in Harris County are probably lining up at the door waiting for the City to abandon their UHF licenses. Case in point: Cy-Fair VFD's transition from lowband to UHF in 2002 was delayed only by the city of Baytown not vacating their operations on 453.6 and 453.35 fast enough.

Of course they can program conventional analog channels as well, bet they won't. Charlotte (NC) fire department has all their fireground operations on analog talkgroups, good for scanner listeners but I'd not want to depend on that on a scene.
HFD currently makes widespread use of simplex talkaround on their repeated channels at high-rise events or anywhere where the interior guys can't get into the repeaters. In some instances the IC will specify that interior units switch to simplex, but more often the guys do it on their own when they can't get through to command through the repeater. The initial RFP called for the much-lauded 95% belt-worn handheld coverage inside all of the downtown high rises, so you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be no conventional use with the new radios once it goes live.. not initially, at least.

The audio on HFD's current system is pretty ass-tastic as it is, since they use simulcast transmitters and whatever they were using to synch them has long since died (or never worked right to begin with). I can imagine the line firefighters being promised huge improvements in audio quality over the current system and then finding that fireground P25 is either as bad as poorly-synched simulcast analog FM or worse.
 

tunnelmot

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
427
Location
Conroe, TX
The audio on HFD's current system is pretty ass-tastic as it is, since they use simulcast transmitters and whatever they were using to synch them has long since died (or never worked right to begin with)..


So THAT's why A1 (Disp.)always sounds like crap, right?

I always wondered why the tx sounded like a cartoon ray gun. I was real bad a few years back, before they hired Dispatch-o-matic.

I use an HT1000 for city, and it still sounds bad from up here, though the Ops channels are better.

Rich
 

mfn002

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
2,162
Location
Bryan, Texas
I think it's about time. For as long as I've listened to HFD, their system has always seemed to have problems such as keyed repeaters, poor audio, etc. I think it would be a real benefit for HPD, because everytime an officer calls for code 3 assistance, the channel gets closed to regular traffic, which is pretty inefficient. I imagine that each district will probably have at least two channels, a dispatch and a tactical channel.
 
Last edited:

scanfan03

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Messages
1,686
Location
Houston, Texas
I think it's about time. For as long as I've listened to HFD, their system has always seemed to have problems such as keyed repeaters, poor audio, etc. I think it would be a real benefit for HPD, because everytime an officer calls for code 3 assistance, the channel gets closed to regular traffic, which is pretty inefficient. I imagine that each district will probably have at least two channels, a dispatch and a tactical channel.

HPD already has like 6 TAC channels. The reason for closing the channel is so the officer in trouble has the air and every other officer can listen to them. It would be inefficient to switch everyone else to a secondary channel.
 

tunnelmot

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
427
Location
Conroe, TX
Just my opinion only, but I don't think that the existing system is all that "bad". We all know that grant $ is being thrown about like Lone Star cards, and agencies are gonna get their piece of the pie. But honestly, with the MDT's, what is worth 100+ million? Besides burning tax$ like crazy, what can't be handled with some COMPETENT techs, a few voting RX'rs, and strategically placed ant's?

Unless, I'm missing something, HFD has a *decent* system with the assigned Tacs and Ops, and up North here, it almost seems as if adding more channels/TG's always adds to the confusion. (For the officers/fire personnel). Think: Ops or Tac; Tac 1 ot Tac 2, Ops 3 or Multi 1, Mutual 5 or Talk 2...get my drift.

It seems to me that HPD actually is more efficient due to division officers' always reverting to their preceints' assigned channel. i.e- All units on one "page". Take 8 , etc for tactical situations, then back to patrol ch.

Whats wrong with Phase 2 Apco-TDMA?(essentially 2x the channel capacity?) I could set up a couple of Spectras and an Icom dual band mobile and get a cross-patch going on a Home Depot generator for an Ike-style interoperability party.

Maybe I'm asking to many questions. Just my nature.
This is more from a taxpayers' point than anything else.
I'll just shut up now.

-No, I'm really not that bitter, I just sound that way sometimes.

Rich
 

bpckty1

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2000
Messages
845
Who knows, the new system might work.

But, after all the money has been spent, systems are in place, it all boils down to one thing:

Training, training, and more training, then putting that training into practice.

OK, I know, I'm asking for a miracle. HPD and HFD don't always talk with each other, and everyone at HPD and the County Agencies forget about HPD-1 when a situation arises. So, an HPD unit is sent to act as a relay for the HPD units/Helicopter, when a joint operation/mutual aid event, happens.
 

motorola_otaku

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
690
HPD and HFD don't always talk with each other..
Do HPD and HFD ever talk to each other? If they do, it must be when I'm not by the radio. :lol:
I do hear Cypress Creek and Memorial Village VFDs coming up on HFD channels for mutual aid events and the odd constable/SO/wacker pop up on HPD A7 looking for a SafeClear dispatch.

The biggest problem with the existing UHF systems is that they are ooooold. Analog Sabers, Spectras, and MSF5000 repeaters haven't been supported by Motorola for years, and the Astro Saber depot support just ended this year. Granted, yes, they could buy new UHF infrastructure and mobiles/portables and be good for years to come, but that's not where the DHS grants are going.. they specify P25 digital voice and 700 MHz. And HFD really doesn't have enough channels to support their operations for a city of their size. Go to the Files section of HosutonScan and have a look at the City of Houston RFP. HFD proposed a channel plan for 40 talkgroups on the new system.. yet still wants to keep the current configuration of having every incident in the city initially respond on 3 shared channels.

EDIT: Or I guess I could just 'cap it..

hfdnewchannel1gh1.png


hfdnewchannel2qn0.png
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top