how quickly is everything going digital?

[N_Jay]

What system has that latency? Nextel, for one, can easily have latency of one second when traffic conditions are normal to heavy. It is not a consistent delay, either. Some voice comms might get through with only a 200ms delay, but some may take 1000ms. This is not even taking into account "channel acquisition" times, which are *always* present in any conditions.

The fact of the matter is that analog has almost negligible delay. You can't encode anything to and back from digital without a delay. For phone and SMR/2-way communication the delay is a non-issue. But, under time-critical situations, any delay could pose a problem. I'm sure some teams will switch to digital, but I would bet the bank that other's will not unless NASCAR ignores the safety issues and forces them to change.

I have never seen anywhere near 1 second of latency on Nextel. 200 to 250 ms is a lot. You might start hitting these numbers in "Nationwide Direct Connect", but in one market it should be a lot less.

Yes access can be much worse depending on local and network loading. Put that is a separate issue.

 

[N_Jay]

Some of you are confusing analog/digital with trunked/non-trunked. Others are confusing analog/digital with clear/encrypted.

SO, what else is new around here? :twisted: :wink: (J/K)

 

[mole351]

did a little more research and found this from an article, though it was released right before the start of the first Nextel season (Jan. 2004). seems to answer the question of switching to Nextel, anyway....

Probably the most frequent asked question regarding the new Nextel sponsorship is, "Will I still be able to use my scanner at the races?" And the answer is...Yes.

Nextel has no intention of eliminating current scanners to implement new equipment. The company has said they will work to make the existing frequencies better and have no plans to make the current hardware being used obsolete.

 

[Thayne]

Nothing new under the sun here; some of us can only hope to reach your lofty confidence level someday--until then we will just be happy to be able to furnish you with grist to chew up and spit out with gusto and authority

 

[WesFFXFire]

Teams would have had encrypted or digital radios a long long time ago if Nascar allowed it. In fact Jr Johnson & Sabco went to 800mhz and one time and are now back in the 460 range.......the teams complain now about other teams listening in, fans listening in.....and as any Nascar fan knows the Nascar officials listen in. With money being no object to race teams and if nascar allowed it, then why wouldn't they have switched years ago ?????

 

[PhilJSmith67]

What system has that latency? Nextel, for one, can easily have latency of one second when traffic conditions are normal to heavy. It is not a consistent delay, either. Some voice comms might get through with only a 200ms delay, but some may take 1000ms. This is not even taking into account "channel acquisition" times, which are *always* present in any conditions.

The fact of the matter is that analog has almost negligible delay. You can't encode anything to and back from digital without a delay. For phone and SMR/2-way communication the delay is a non-issue. But, under time-critical situations, any delay could pose a problem. I'm sure some teams will switch to digital, but I would bet the bank that other's will not unless NASCAR ignores the safety issues and forces them to change.

I have never seen anywhere near 1 second of latency on Nextel. 200 to 250 ms is a lot. You might start hitting these numbers in "Nationwide Direct Connect", but in one market it should be a lot less.

Yes access can be much worse depending on local and network loading. Put that is a separate issue.

I'm not talking about Nationwide Direct Connect. I am talking about two units connecting to a single site. 1 second is NOT uncommon on Nextel. It is not unacceptable in most environments, either. iDEN is efficient, in fact, more efficient than the hodge-podge way that CDMA and TDMA emulate one-way voice operation. But, the encoding block size is still large enough that it is virtually impossible for the latency to go below 200ms. Nearly 90ms for encode, and 90ms for decode, under absolute optimal conditions.

As far as loading goes, it's a separate issue from latency, but it is by far NOT a separate issue when the crew and driver are trying to communicate. Analog is immediate, period. Nobody has to take any chances, however large or small, with analog communications in a time-critical situation. Digital obviously has advantages in nearly every other situation, but it cannot somehow magically match the instantaneous throughput of an analog signal.

 

[mole351]

and as any Nascar fan knows the Nascar officials listen in.

kurt busch, anybody? :lol:


[

 

[PhilJSmith67]

Teams would have had encrypted or digital radios a long long time ago if Nascar allowed it. In fact Jr Johnson & Sabco went to 800mhz and one time and are now back in the 460 range.......the teams complain now about other teams listening in, fans listening in.....and as any Nascar fan knows the Nascar officials listen in. With money being no object to race teams and if nascar allowed it, then why wouldn't they have switched years ago ?????

True, most teams don't want others listening in. Jr Johnson and Sabco went to 800 with analog signals; few people would ever find them there. Now anybody with a hundred bucks can get an 800MHz scanner.

I am surprised that teams haven't looked into analog/digital hybrid modes where communication is nearly instantaneous but the signal is difficult or impossible to follow on a scanner. Of course, now that Nextel's wallet is running the show, they'll probably be forced to go to Nextel regardless of any opposition.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

and as any Nascar fan knows the Nascar officials listen in.

kurt busch, anybody? :lol:
[

LOL... I wouldn't be surprised if there were 43 recording devices jammed into that trailer, with a scanner feeding each one!

 

[Al42]

I am surprised that teams haven't looked into analog/digital hybrid modes where communication is nearly instantaneous but the signal is difficult or impossible to follow on a scanner.

Spread spectrum, or are you thinking of something else?

 

[PhilJSmith67]

Spread spectrum, or are you thinking of something else?

Sure, that would keep other teams from listening.

 

[WesFFXFire]

I'm sure every team out there has looked into every option. But until Nascar allows it, they have to stay on the same old frequencies so the thousands of fans can listen and probably thousands of employees of track scanner companies still have a job. Nascar teams can afford state of the art radio's have 5 times the radio budget of any government or private company. So to say "I'm surprised they havn't looked into......", doesn't even matter.