Personal Observations: Analog vs Digital

MiCon

Mike
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
322
Reaction score
435
Location
central AZ
I’ve noticed many posts on this and other radio hobby sites concerning a scanner’s ability to receive digital transmissions. Someone will post that they just bought an old analog scanner, to which someone else will invariably reply that it’s a worthless piece of junk because it won’t receive digital audio. It happens every time. The person posting the reply obviously has no knowledge of the monitoring hobby. That’s the kind of mindset that thinks L/E is the only reason to have a scanner.

In most urban areas of this large country, most governmental agencies have switched to trunked digital systems. Many have gone the extra mile and have encrypted their audio. The fact is that urban areas are a very small percentage of the landscape. There are infinitely many more small towns than there are large cities, and many of these rural areas are still using non-trunked analog systems for EVERYTHING. Even in the large urban areas, just because L/E has gone digital doesn’t mean that there’s nothing left to listen to.

I live in a rapidly growing urban area. The only digital user here that I’m aware of is the private ambulance company that just switched to DMR. Everything else is non-trunked and in the clear, including every L/E agency within my reception range. I have never owned a digital scanner because my old analog scanners cover everything. The receiver I use most is a 35+ year old 16 channel scanner that covers the local PD, FD’s, SO, and State Patrol. I also have a 400 channel 30+ year old scanner for everything else I want to monitor. No need for an expensive, complicated radio here, or in so many other locales. In fact, most of the counties in AZ are using non-trunked analog repeaters.

And while I’m on the subject of so many people being in love with the newer digital scanners, they’re definitely not for everyone. It seems that at least 50% of the forum posts are people asking for help programming, operating, and understanding how to use their SDS and other digital scanners. In fact, there seems to be a recent uptick in users wanting to go back to the older, simple to program and operate, analog scanners. Compared to even just twenty years ago, todays scanners are so difficult to set up for personal preference. Someone will say that they’re easier to program because it’s all done with a computer, but if you want to make a personal preference change it’s nearly impossible. With some of these new scanners you can’t even do a simple program change without the computer program which, from what I’ve been seeing in posts, is an added cost to an already expensive and complicated radio.

I’m not saying the newer scanners aren’t worth having for some people and some areas. But let’s stop condemning the use of older scanners as worthless. It’s becoming obvious that they still provide a use in many areas for many people.

I’ve been monitoring P/S, aircraft, and SW since 1965 - before scanners were even a thought.

Just my $.02 worth. Now I’ll sit back and wait for some inexperienced person to tell me how wrong I am.
 

pb_lonny

VK7AAL
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
2,698
Reaction score
1,240
Location
Tasmania
Until recently, I was using a 20 year old scanner. I have recently upgraded to the BCD160DN, due to more DMR and NXDN users in my area.

If an older scanner works in your area, that is great and older scanners work well for a lot of services, such as Airband, VHF marine band and a lot of business type users. Getting a high end scanner and trying to set it up, without the background from understanding the radio systems and lower end radios first, is just asking for trouble.
 

Scan125

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
672
Reaction score
259
Location
UK
Well I've never used a digital scanner. My radio experience / hobby started in 1971 with a UK military Wireless Set No. 19 (Wireless Set No. 19 - Wikipedia) definitely non digital :) Since then SW & HF only with a Lowe HF150, an Alinco DX-R8 and an RSPduo (SDR). When we (me & Mrs) were doing motor sport we used CB rigs on EU channels to keep in contact with each other whilst we travelled to circuits around the UK. So all analogue.

I got my first scanner (UBC125XLT) in 2013 aged 58. So yes I'm a late comer and relative novice to scanners and scanning. Here in the UK apart from Airband, Marine, CB, PMR and Amateur everyting has gone digital and in most cases encrypted. Some leasure centres, building sites still use analogue.

Unlike the US and other countries the UK has alway had very strict / restricted laws governing radio signal reception so apart from bank robbers / criminals / paparazzi in the old days where Emergency Services comms were not encrypted scanning as such as a hobby never really took off. Amateur and CB only. Also there may be a cultural 'non of my business' side as well.

These days here in the UK I would say any scanning is predominately limited to Airband inc MIL, Marine, CB and PMR. If there are people out there listening to digital business / non public and license required comms then they are no doubt keeping a low profile and not advertising their activities.
 

sprman1955

Member
Joined
May 26, 2011
Messages
1,056
Reaction score
3,000
Location
Lavergne ,TN
I use both but mainly listen to analog..Ilike dxing the low band 25-50 mhz analog lot to still be heard there when the band opens up.Air railroads and others here in TN can be heard.A analog scanner is of limited use tho and i find prices for used ones (analog) are high.Mil air,marine,cb can be heard too.. : /
 

mark40

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
365
Reaction score
246
Location
Pike County, Pennsylvania
My primary listening interest revolves around Fire, EMS and LE. Fortunately in my area almost all of it is analog with the exception of the State Police.

Utilize a BCD996P2 to listen to two talk-groups on PA-STARNet: PennDot during snow storms and DCNR Rangers communicating with county communications on a PEMA hailing talk-group. The DCNR fire day to day remains on the VHF system. The only time I've heard them on STARNet was during aerial spraying operations last year. Anything else I'd be interested on STARNet is encrypted.

To my ear analog audio is much clearer and for that alone I prefer it by far.

Finally, I really enjoy the computer programming aspect with ProScan
 

cg

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 13, 2000
Messages
5,225
Reaction score
1,746
Location
Connecticut
There are also many posts about folks who buy an analog scanner or a low end digital scanner and complain that they cant hear anything from their local P25Phase 2 simulcast system.
All depends where you are and what you want to listen to, limited by what you want to spend. Some folks want to hear everything, some folks are happy listening to school buses dropping their kid off.
You happen to be in an area where there is limited monitoring or you choose to only monitor a few channels, that is good (for you).
I am in an area where just the analog Fire service that I can receive would require at least 50 channels. Again, with just the fire service, you would need a digital scanner that would do P25Phase 2 simulcast & DMR. The analog radio side would need to do LTR. Expand to PD and you would need to ensure EDACS was available as well.
 

marksmith

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
4,354
Reaction score
274
Location
Anne Arundel County, MD
You do not live in what I refer to as a "rapidly growing urban area" if you don't have 7 or 8 PS2 systems in your midst.

DMR and clear analog is still very prevalent but not in police or fire agencies.
 

RichM

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
187
Reaction score
218
It is purely situational - I live in a rural area and all LE/Fire/EMS is P25. They switched because it works better with our topography. When it was all analog I used analog, when it changed so did I. When your area changes to digital and adds simulcast you will be the one asking for help.

I still use analog for MilAir/CivAir/Marine/VHF Ham and I have to say my 18 year old digital scanner beats the socks off my old Uniden analog scanner. It’s light years faster, has better filtering, much better sound and includes alpha tags. And the computer programming I use makes loading, updating and saving a joy instead of a chore. The days of pencil and paper and pushing buttons until the numbers wear off of them are a thing of the past.

Enjoy what you have while you have it because change is inevitable.
 

bradh

Newbie
Joined
May 30, 2011
Messages
1
Reaction score
2
Location
Fort Worth, TX
I’ve noticed many posts on this and other radio hobby sites concerning a scanner’s ability to receive digital transmissions. Someone will post that they just bought an old analog scanner, to which someone else will invariably reply that it’s a worthless piece of junk because it won’t receive digital audio. It happens every time. The person posting the reply obviously has no knowledge of the monitoring hobby. That’s the kind of mindset that thinks L/E is the only reason to have a scanner.

In most urban areas of this large country, most governmental agencies have switched to trunked digital systems. Many have gone the extra mile and have encrypted their audio. The fact is that urban areas are a very small percentage of the landscape. There are infinitely many more small towns than there are large cities, and many of these rural areas are still using non-trunked analog systems for EVERYTHING. Even in the large urban areas, just because L/E has gone digital doesn’t mean that there’s nothing left to listen to.

I live in a rapidly growing urban area. The only digital user here that I’m aware of is the private ambulance company that just switched to DMR. Everything else is non-trunked and in the clear, including every L/E agency within my reception range. I have never owned a digital scanner because my old analog scanners cover everything. The receiver I use most is a 35+ year old 16 channel scanner that covers the local PD, FD’s, SO, and State Patrol. I also have a 400 channel 30+ year old scanner for everything else I want to monitor. No need for an expensive, complicated radio here, or in so many other locales. In fact, most of the counties in AZ are using non-trunked analog repeaters.

And while I’m on the subject of so many people being in love with the newer digital scanners, they’re definitely not for everyone. It seems that at least 50% of the forum posts are people asking for help programming, operating, and understanding how to use their SDS and other digital scanners. In fact, there seems to be a recent uptick in users wanting to go back to the older, simple to program and operate, analog scanners. Compared to even just twenty years ago, todays scanners are so difficult to set up for personal preference. Someone will say that they’re easier to program because it’s all done with a computer, but if you want to make a personal preference change it’s nearly impossible. With some of these new scanners you can’t even do a simple program change without the computer program which, from what I’ve been seeing in posts, is an added cost to an already expensive and complicated radio.

I’m not saying the newer scanners aren’t worth having for some people and some areas. But let’s stop condemning the use of older scanners as worthless. It’s becoming obvious that they still provide a use in many areas for many people.

I’ve been monitoring P/S, aircraft, and SW since 1965 - before scanners were even a thought.

Just my $.02 worth. Now I’ll sit back and wait for some inexperienced person to tell me how wrong I am.
Very well said. And I agree.
 

MiCon

Mike
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
322
Reaction score
435
Location
central AZ
You do not live in what I refer to as a "rapidly growing urban area" if you don't have 7 or 8 PS2 systems in your midst.

DMR and clear analog is still very prevalent but not in police or fire agencies.
That was my bad. Got my terms mixed up. I meant a rapidly growing rural area.
 

MiCon

Mike
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
322
Reaction score
435
Location
central AZ
It is purely situational - I live in a rural area and all LE/Fire/EMS is P25. They switched because it works better with our topography. When it was all analog I used analog, when it changed so did I. When your area changes to digital and adds simulcast you will be the one asking for help.

I still use analog for MilAir/CivAir/Marine/VHF Ham and I have to say my 18 year old digital scanner beats the socks off my old Uniden analog scanner. It’s light years faster, has better filtering, much better sound and includes alpha tags. And the computer programming I use makes loading, updating and saving a joy instead of a chore. The days of pencil and paper and pushing buttons until the numbers wear off of them are a thing of the past.

Enjoy what you have while you have it because change is inevitable.
Nah. I'm 76 years old. By the time things change here, I'll either be gone, or find something else to do.
 

RichardKramer

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
2,286
Reaction score
5,500
Location
Reading, PA
In addition to my 2/396XTs, 4/436HPs scanners, plus numerous other programable scanners and tuneable monitors; I have a crystal Regency ACT-R-10 scanner with crystals for 151.220 Berks Co Disp; 154.430 Reading Fire Disp; and 155.475 PD Natl. There's alot of analog stuff to listen to here in Berks Co. PA. Obviously, aircraft; many businesses, busses, schools, arenas, sports stadiums, cb, frs, gmrs, ham, railroads, still use analog comms. Their are also analog relay freqs of our TRS system; other than the PD being E; you can pretty much know what is going on around you here in Berks with an analog scanner.
The Regency scanner was bought when I was in High School 1974; it's still working good at age 52; can't say that for me though, I'm looking at 70 come this Nov!
 

DeoVindice

P25 Underground
Joined
Sep 27, 2019
Messages
725
Reaction score
905
Location
5150 Level
It is purely situational - I live in a rural area and all LE/Fire/EMS is P25. They switched because it works better with our topography. When it was all analog I used analog, when it changed so did I. When your area changes to digital and adds simulcast you will be the one asking for help.
Conventional P25 is also quite common in rural areas. As a general rule, I find its intelligibility to be superior to analog and DAQ does seem to hold up better to comparatively minor terrain fade. In a multicast or single-site system, it is no more difficult to program into a scanner than analog.
 

GlobalNorth

Active Member
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
2,867
Reaction score
3,073
Location
Fort Misery
You and I share the same area, I suspect. Verde Valley and Copper Canyon were approved by the voters for a new fire station and a new radio system [P25 most likely], new repeaters/voters, and possibly, new frequencies. AZ WINS is coming online, albeit slowly, and who knows if YCSO, Prescott, Prescott Valley, Cottonwood, Chino Valley, Jerome, Clarkdale, Sedona, Camp Verde, etc. will stay VHF or go 700/800 MHz. Lots of agencies, some can afford a switch over something in another band, and some cannot afford to leave VHF.

We can be rather certain that the RF will be digital - I'd guess that it would be P25, but Payson in Gila County went with NXDN of all things.

I'm going to wait and see where things are going.
 

StoliRaz

£uck Encryption
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
1,093
Reaction score
1,000
I prefer analog to digital. I have SDRTrunk recording a digital police frequency (P25 conventional) and often times it will miss short, one word/quick transmissions or only catch part of it, resulting in a choppy sentence..I know it isn't just my setup because the same happens with my digital scanner. When I add in analog local fire on the SDRTrunk setup, that sounds great and nothing gets missed or chopped.

I have my analog Uniden 15X and 346XT scanners still, they work fine for airband and there is still a lot of analog around me, but unfortunately it has really begun flopping to digital more and more over the past 3-5 years which is a real downer
 

MiCon

Mike
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
322
Reaction score
435
Location
central AZ
You and I share the same area, I suspect. Verde Valley and Copper Canyon were approved by the voters for a new fire station and a new radio system [P25 most likely], new repeaters/voters, and possibly, new frequencies. AZ WINS is coming online, albeit slowly, and who knows if YCSO, Prescott, Prescott Valley, Cottonwood, Chino Valley, Jerome, Clarkdale, Sedona, Camp Verde, etc. will stay VHF or go 700/800 MHz. Lots of agencies, some can afford a switch over something in another band, and some cannot afford to leave VHF.

We can be rather certain that the RF will be digital - I'd guess that it would be P25, but Payson in Gila County went with NXDN of all things.

I'm going to wait and see where things are going.
You're correct, that's my area.
Thanks for the info, I hadn't heard any of that.
There have already been a number of changes in the YC fire systems in the three years I've been here. Still trying to figure it all out. There are several independent systems, and a few co-operative systems. I don't foresee a lot of changes there in the near future, but anything is possible.
 

sideshowjim

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
43
Reaction score
41
Location
Northwestern Wisconsin
I started out monitoring back in the late 60's with a transistor dial radio, tuned to local PD... "Don't Touch That Dial"! Or I wouldn't hear the radio calls. Mid 70's is when I got my first "scanner" a Regency 4 channel desktop model (crystal controled). And my passion for monitoring and "scanners" grew from there.

I remember my first new Pro2006, was expensive upgrade for me at the time, (no chrystals!) programable, and it had the CTSS abilities (and mod'd for the cellularband!)! From there to my "996's" and now "SDS" with many many hand held and mobile/desktop models in between...recently I took the deep dive into the way cool Unication G5 (dual band model VHF/700/800mhz) "pager" relm too.

I live in an area where conventional analog is still used widelyfor county public safety systems, and where some counties are mixed with P25 conventional, and where the state uses VHF P25 trunk, and where nearby State of MN is P25 800mhz Trunk where sadly much is now encrypted. I still use my "2006" when things get busy around home and to listen in on the 2meter nets, but my "780" is on every day all day, right along with my "996's" and SDS200 monitoring multiple county systems. With a dedicated "996" in my mobile... ya, I too have a "problem".

I'll end with "I haven't met a scanner i didn't like"!
 

kk9h

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 4, 2006
Messages
115
Reaction score
180
Location
Northfield, IL
I live in Illinois and like many of you our state has installed a statewide 800 MHz trunked P25 system for its use called Starcom 21. This system was designed to have enough capacity to allow other users to become fee paying customers so many county and local governments have converted over to it. I live in the Chicago area so as you might imagine, encryption is offered for an additional fee and my local police department as well as those around me have gone that route. Many many other agencies around the state are now using this system as well. Not all Starcom customers are using encryption, but local police and sheriff agencies usually are. Fortunately, fire departments are generally not encrypted and most of them have their own P25 systems rather than Starcom and some of them are still analog rather than P25. There are two competing dispatch centers near me that now dispatching local fire departments. One of them also dispatches some local police departments as well. The fire departments use open VHF-hi band P25 repeaters and still use FM analog for fireground channels at an incident scene and interoperability. Illinois still uses 155.475 analog FM for police interagency dispatches and those include police chases and APBs which are a lot of fun to listen to. In fact, my county has a patch system that receives 155.475 with an antenna at 260 feet and rebroadcasts what it hears on a 450 MHz UHF channel. You can literally hear everything on 155.475 with that so analog definitely is not dead around here
 
Top