How should I discipline radio abuse/misuse?

[Danny37]

I suspect this is the old status/heirachy/age issue that many voluntary organisations have.

If volunteers are so scarce that nothing they do will get them thrown out, then the inmates are in charge of the asylum.

We have volunteer organisations here that have a National, regional and local command structure, and they have members who look after comms, as you do. If members abuse ANY of the equipment they are issued with - as in ambulances, down to first aid kits, then they don't get them issued again, and they have to accept the status that perhaps a new trainee has. They do have formal complaints procedures and the hierarchy seems to work in my local branch from the training I did for them. However, another group fifteen miles away are much more a social organisation who do first aid between the visits to the local pubs. Their equipment is bent, damaged, and one of their ambulances has a single tone horn because the two tone horn lost 50% of it's external components when they drove under an overhang.

You want out organised. They clearly have different priorities. Sometimes, it's better to have a box full of junk radios and then ask for more, because that goes up the pyramid, and often results in questions about the twenty you had last year, and what happened to them. You simply show them the box. They ask why you didn't;t stop this, you explain you tried.

Always generates bad feeling, but unless your immediate superiors in the organisation think like you, don't try to push it. Just do your best, and keep records of who it is trashing them for when the fan gets hit!

I realize that I may take my job a bit too seriously, only that's because I know how dangerous it can be to request for help on the radio and not be heard because of poorly maintained equipment.

There's too much politics, more then what I'm used to and I'm not very fond of politics but times have changed and it seems like these guys still live in the past.

 

[Voyager]

Why not try some stubby antennas and:

1) see if they work

2) see if they resolve any of these issues.

 

[paulears]

I suspect that for some - being members of volunteer groups, no matter how worthwhile, is seen as a hobby and a social activity. You want the seriousness and 'status' of the group to be in a different league, and nothing at all wrong with that. However - be very careful with stuff like "I know how dangerous it can be to request for help on the radio and not be heard because of poorly maintained equipment." That might be true if you are in the National Guard, or similar organisations, but is your average radio traffic life and death, or perhaps collating (as we get here in the UK) the list of who wants sugar in their tea?

Professional, paid emergency services have radios that are tools, and usually clipped to belts, attached to stab vests etc - and do NOT get played with. In some of our organisations where a radio is given out to only selected members, it becomes a badge of office, in their hands all the time - and that is when they get antennas bent. I don't think this is politics of any kind, just a study in human nature. I guess you like radios, hence your individual role. This distances you from the other's interests.


Most hams, for example look after their radios, be it pocket money Baofengs or ultra expensive HYT, while commercial users only care that they function and have decent batteries. I have a large hire fleet, and sadly, my ham radios get treated pretty much the same. Broken antennas, mics, missing socket covers, the odd chip and crack really don't matter. The same people who break mics, often get asked to repeat their messages because they forget to speak into the right side. It's not your radios failing, it's the users!

 

[OhSixTJ]

I have a large hire fleet, and sadly, my ham radios get treated pretty much the same. Broken antennas, mics, missing socket covers, the odd chip and crack really don't matter. The same people who break mics, often get asked to repeat their messages because they forget to speak into the right side. It's not your radios failing, it's the users!

You use ham radio for commercial purposes?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[paulears]

No, I have a hire fleet, and I treat my ham radios in the same way as those!

I may have talked this up. One regular client asked for an extra 4 radios on Saturday - and for convenience, I gave him 4 brand new ones, programmed on simplex hire channels. They just came back, and one has it's channel knob missing already! One other looks like they dropped it onto concrete. Just how it is, I suppose!

 

[phillmobile]

"the higher up here insists on whip antenna"

Fit helicals and when this guy moans ask him to order new whips out of his wallet.

Phill, UK.

 

[Citywide173]

They have a valid point. You are working as volunteers. Getting 8 hours of free work out of someone and then going after them for $15 comes across as a bit petty. Not the way you want to treat volunteers. If the agency can run shifts like that and cover all the other costs, then they need to be able to support their radios properly. That includes absorbing costs of damage.

The point is only partially valid-he is probably being ignored because they know there will be no recourse. These people have been told what abuse of the radio consists of, and not to do it. Damaging someone else's property intentionally is vandalism. As a person responsible for BLS QA/QI for the evening shift of a major municipal EMS service, I look at this and see a person who has no respect for rules or other people's property which makes me question their overall integrity and their ability to provide patient care with due regard for the Statewide Treatment Protocols or the patient's safety. I know volunteers are hard to find.....QUALITY volunteers are even harder, but if you have any pride in your service, quality matters.

 

[Voyager]

"the higher up here insists on whip antenna"

Fit helicals and when this guy moans ask him to order new whips out of his wallet.

Phill, UK.

The last portable I can think of that used whip antennas was the PT200.
I don't think those are narrowband compliant.

 

[SCPD]

If it was a public works entity I would suggest mobiles only in the vehicles with external speaker that can be toggled outside the vehicle over a megahorn with low profile fins for the antenna. But being ems this wouldn't be ideal though at one time many police, ems use to only use the mobile and go back. I think there is a couple highway patrols which still stick to the mobiles only but use a microwave audio device back to their dispatch. However no portables in public safety isn't ideal. I know a couple fire and ems use mobile on a trs, and use uhf or vhf simplex for on scene tac which are basic model 1 radios with 1 channel. Though these two have a actual dedicated engineer or driver for the rigs to run back and forth to the cab or have radio head mounted on engines outside by the panel. This isn't the case for most entities though having a ems rig with 3 all the time and dedicated engineer for the engine that sticks to it unfortunately. It's make do and fill voids mostly everywhere with limited man power.

 

[SCPD]

I suspect that for some - being members of volunteer groups, no matter how worthwhile, is seen as a hobby and a social activity. You want the seriousness and 'status' of the group to be in a different league, and nothing at all wrong with that. However - be very careful with stuff like "I know how dangerous it can be to request for help on the radio and not be heard because of poorly maintained equipment." That might be true if you are in the National Guard, or similar organisations, but is your average radio traffic life and death, or perhaps collating (as we get here in the UK) the list of who wants sugar in their tea?

Professional, paid emergency services have radios that are tools, and usually clipped to belts, attached to stab vests etc - and do NOT get played with. In some of our organisations where a radio is given out to only selected members, it becomes a badge of office, in their hands all the time - and that is when they get antennas bent. I don't think this is politics of any kind, just a study in human nature. I guess you like radios, hence your individual role. This distances you from the other's interests.


Most hams, for example look after their radios, be it pocket money Baofengs or ultra expensive HYT, while commercial users only care that they function and have decent batteries. I have a large hire fleet, and sadly, my ham radios get treated pretty much the same. Broken antennas, mics, missing socket covers, the odd chip and crack really don't matter. The same people who break mics, often get asked to repeat their messages because they forget to speak into the right side. It's not your radios failing, it's the users!

Scary reality is while those outside the volunteer work see it as hobby, in the united states rural majority of ems, fire and even some law enforcement are all volunteer reserves. It is the professional first responders for them areas a lot out west. Many required to test and have same hours as paid full time.

 

[SCPD]

Unfortunately we have about roughly 60 members and can't support a fleet of 60 radios. I've been documenting everything and keeping them in my files. I don't have access to personnel files since I'm not that high up the chain. And vertex radios take a hell of a beating infact from what I've experience, they may look cheap to Motorola fanboys but they're tanks even the lower tier ones. I think any radio isn't built to be handled by the antenna, when I see people carry and lift their radios by the antenna I cringe alittle even if it's not my radio or fleet.

The antenna handling is a big peeve I have. We had some come in the xts 1500s with sma wear and tear issue. After repairs some came back within a month. We found the culprit a younger man bending people's radios from behind them, tugging the antenna, twisting it off while kne was keying on a shoulder mic. You can say he didn't like the criminal charges of damage and criminal mischief he found himself in and costs. He no longer works for the entity and lost in court having to pay the damages.

 

[Danny37]

I guess it took me wanting to leave for them to take me serious. I've ordered a bunch of stubbies and haven't gotten any complaints. I've also removed all belt clips and hid them. Let's hope that I won't be replacing antennas any time soon, I also pushed for anti sway straps for people using the shoulder straps as it was swinging all over the place.

Here's a picture of a modified shorty stubby on my personal radio.

 

[n5ims]

Start by posting a notice that the user is responsible for all damage to the radio that they sign out and document all damage and produce a list of abusers and the associated cost that damage is to repair. A list of users that take good care of their radios might also be of some use so folks can see "who's naughty and who's nice". After a while posting the lists, start dividing the good radios from the damaged radios and only allow those that take good care of the radios use the good ones and the abusers only get the damaged ones. After a period of that, get those new radios and only let the folks that really take good care of the radios check them out.

 

[scanmanmi]

I had a similar equipment misuse problem (non radio) with users. You'd think that any idiot would know better! It's probably an impersonal situation now that needs to be made personal. It's quite unpleasant but if you can attribute it to someone then go to that person privately and very politely inform them they damaged a radio and ask if they would like to contribute to the repair. Nothing is going to change with groupthink.

 

[ur20v]

Start using collapsible metal antennas and see how quickly they start *****ing about those and use that as an opportunity to re-educate them on the proper care and handling of radio equipment.

 

[Voyager]

Start using collapsible metal antennas and see how quickly they start *****ing about those and use that as an opportunity to re-educate them on the proper care and handling of radio equipment.

Their complaints will be that the unit doesn't work. Of course it will be because they didn't extend the antenna, but they won't see it that way.

@ the OP: Great to hear it!

 

[SCPD]

The solution is easy ..
$25 Baofeng BF-888 channelized cheap radios.
You will save the department thousands!

 

[SpugEddy]

I'll just give you a page out of my book.
I experienced the same exact problem. I thought the
remedy was to take ALL radios, put a number on each
one, and assign A radio to each officer. If they were not
an officer, they didn't get a radio. The reason they were told
was simple. IF you can't take care of an expensive piece
of equipment then you don't get said equipment. Each officer
was responsible for loss and/or unnecessary damage to his
or her radio. Each officer signed a paper saying so.

After 6 months I re-evaluated the radios and found that
they seemed to have less damage. The non-officers were
still asking for their radios and they were told "NO". Three
months later, the rest of the radios were given numbers
and would be signed in and out at the beginning and the end
of each shift. The non-officers were then given the same
papers to sign and then assigned a radio to them.

In the end, the problem seemed to, not completely go away,
but there was a tremendous difference. As soon and it looked
like we were going back to the same thing again, they were
reminded of the 9 months that they went without a radio and
how it could happen again.
It sounds a little rough, but some of us are less tolerant
of irresponsibility regardless of being a volunteer or not.
Show a little pride and responsibility.

*** Also, I should have mentioned that they were told that this was
not a punishment. It was just us trying to protect our investment.
They were also told that if they wanted to treat the radios like sh#$
they were more than welcome to purchase their own radios. They
would be programmed for free and if they choose to mistreat them,
that was on them. After they saw the price, they abandoned that idea.

 

[Voyager]

I'll just give you a page out of my book.
I experienced the same exact problem. I thought the
remedy was to take ALL radios, put a number on each
one, and assign A radio to each officer.

Exactly the concept I mentioned very early in this thread.

It's AMAZING how much better people treat "their own" equipment over equipment that is not theirs.

 

[techman210]

In the past, I have shortened the TOT in the radio of problem users.

When the users would complain, I said "that radio would probably transmit a lot longer if you took better care of it".