Hytera SFR compatible with non hytera radios?

[cryptoron]

I have a HR655 repeater with SFR license. With hytera radios it’s easy to use the repeater. I’ve also tried with my anytone but that doesn’t work.

I thought sfr is basically transmitting on ts1 and rx on ts2. By monitoring on my Anytone I get the idea that the ts are chosen randomly. I’ve to admit it’s almost impossible to test since you will receive signals from both the handset as repeater but I’ve sent someone far away with the handset.

I’ve also programmed three channels in the hyteras: ts1, ts2 and pseudo. It looks like it will always go to pseudo as soon as it recognises a hytera repeater. One handset on ts1 can talk to the handset on ts2. On the anytone I can see it just picks a random timeslot.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

 

[dazey77]

i have only tested SFR on pd985s and Md785i. I think I had sfr working with other handsets but with some limitations. as far as I know, SFR is always dynamic, the SFr unit simply repeates on one timeslot what it hears on the other, it’s the transmitter that sets the orientation. Means that pseudo trunk can flip timeslots allowing SFR repeaters to daisy chain (as long as the second is out or range of the first device).
an anytome should be able to to on TS1 and have the repeater bounce to TS2.

handsets running dual capacity DCDM will not work with SFR. I believe most handsets transmitting on TS1 still hear what’s on TS2 in simplex, I have some notes somewhere on that. Hyteras transmitting on TS1 DO hear TS1&2 on receive in simplex. Anytone ‘should’ work with SFR as long as it’s not in DCDM, it ‘may’ need to be set to hear both timeslots. I can always check that on a md785.

obviously possible that HR655 works differently

 

[Muxlow]

From our testing its only working with hytera radios in pseudo trunk mode. As it needs to transmit on slot 1 and listen on 2 at the same time kinda deal
Tried a moto with dual capacity direct and that didnt work either

Dont matter what hytera radio you use as long as it has pseudo. But the main SFR radio of course has to have that license and be the dedicated radio

 

[YL3IM]

Tried a moto with dual capacity direct and that didnt work either

SFR in MOTOTRBO world is called ERDM: Extended Range Direct Mode

DCDM is a different thing: DCDM

 

[headsense]

I have a large collection of Hytera suscribers but not one that is SFR licenced. For this I use a Belfone (BFDX) SFR TM8250R mobile radio.

It actually runs 2x mode options on set up, Psuedo Trunk or Motorola type. As I understand Psuedo Trunk utlisies both slots but can alternate between one or the other as the lead slot 1 or 2 . In Motorola mode ERDM Slot 1 is your lead slot and when selecting this mode in CPS it defaults accordingly and cannot be changed. I have not bothered yet to use the DM4800's or as you know them 7550's with above SFR.

One of the issues with basic SFR is when a suscriber is further from the repeater but close to other users sometimes not all parties will end up with a repeated transmission. Generally in a low to medium utlilisation the repeat coverage is quite consistent and fairly seamless.

Another Chinese manufacturer Abel offers the R20 suitcase style desktop / semi portable SFR unit and it can either behave like Hytera PT (common mode) or it has a enhanced mode that only allows Tx/Rx via the SFR and not suscriber to suscriber for more consistent coverage for all users.

Back to Op's question, I'd thought on the Hytera SFR you can choose Psuedo Trunk or nominate a slot as your lead for repeating rather then alternating which would work with other non Psuedo brand suscribers ?

 

[dazey77]

Here are my notes from doing some testing on Hytera vs others in TDMA and regular modes which I referenced earlier. A little different to what I remembered. Not 100% relevant but still relevant.


I have done some investigation into the compatibility between Hytera and Motorola using DCDM and Pseudo trunk what I have found is as follows:



Hytera radios seem to support dual channel over the same frequency in a couple of different ways. Some radios support Pseudo trunk (only) (e.g. PD7xx and X1P), some support TDMA Direct Mode (e.g. V1 PD365), some support both (e.g. PD375 and PD985). In the hytera world everything is interoperable, you can talk between a radio in TDMA direct mode and one in Pseudo trunk with no issues for speech or data. Regardless, all Hyteras in direct mode transmit on a single timeslot.



One thing I worked out in previous testing is that TDMA direct mode is not compatible with hytera SFR (single frequency repeater).



Mototrbo DCDM seems to be the same as Hytera TDMA direct mode but inter-op with other hytera radios is not the same. A pd375 in TDMA direct mode on slot 1 talks fine to a SL4000 running DCDM and on slot 1 (and vice versa). Neither radio listens on both slots but comms work fine on slot 1 or 2. The PD375 can talk fine to an X1p and PD365 running pseudo trunk and non-tdma slot 1. The Motortrbo can make a group call to the X1p and PD365 but only private calls to the PD375 (with private call confirmed), it cannot receive any transmissions from anything other than the TDMA direct mode radio (gets signal but doesn't decode). I can make a group call from the SL to the X1p and it works but returning the call the SL hears nothing. Same with an unconfirmed private call, works one way only. Everything works fine to a Hytera in TDMA direct mode on the same slot.



If you try and integrate Mototrbo into a (non TDMA-direct-mode) Pseudo trunk environment then it is deaf to the second timeslot established (in time not slot). This is actually the same as the PD365 which will receive transmissions on either timeslot but once it is receiving a signal (which it is not meant to decode) it will not attempt to decode a signal on the other timeslot which is for it.

A Hytera in TDMA on slot 1 will only receive from a Mototrbo transmitting on slot 1. It will receive on both slots from a Hytera in pseudo trunk. E.g. I can transmit from the SL on TDMA slot 1 to the PD365 in non-TDMA mode (tying up slot 1) and then transmit from the X1p to the 375 at the same time. If I run the PD365 in TDMA direct mode then it works like the SL with the PD375 (timeslots must be respected between these two) but it can receive from non-TDMA radios unlike the SL.



Summary

A Mototrbo in DCDM mode

-Can receive only from a Hytera in TDMA Direct mode transmitting on a matching slot

-Can transmit to a Hytera in non-TDMA Direct mode (slots don’t need to match)

-Can transmit to a Hytera in TDMA Direct mode (slots need to match)

-Due to the inability to receive, SMS and private calls with confirmation will only work to a Hytera in TDMA direct mode, without will work to all.



A Mototrbo in non-DCDM mode

-is unable to receive from a Hytera in TDMA Direct mode (irrespective of slot) and therefore able to do unconfirmed calls to Hyteras( in TDMA) only

-if set to ‘channel free’ will not transmit if there is already one slot in use.

-Transmits on one slot, with a call in progress Hyetras in Pseudo trunk can open the second slot

-Can receive from Hyteras in non-TDMA direct mode transmitting on either slot but will only check the channel when it becomes active. If it receives a call on slot 2 that is not to be decoded (wrong group/private call for another etc) then it will not decode a signal on slot 1 until the first call is dropped.



A Hytera in TDMA direct mode

-Can transmit to a non-TDMA Hytera regardless of slot

-can receive from an non TDMA Hytera regardless of slot

-Can transmit & receive to a TDMA direct mode Hytera with matching slot

-can transmit to a DCDM Mototrbo with matching slot

-Can receive from a DCDM Mototrbo with matching slot





In hytera speak, TDMA Direct mode seems to be a way to get two segregated channels on one frequency. Only Hytera TDMA radios will respect the segregation (only considering Hytera in this statement).



Pseudo trunk allows you to use double capacity on the frequency without splitting it into two logical channels (which to me is more useful)



Motorola doesn’t appear to have any way to use the double capacity on a direct channel without splitting it into logical channels (but it won’t block both lanes for the Hyteras).