I finally did my Tram 3500 CB MAX range test

[Xman46]

Generally, if you get SWR 1.0 on channel 1 AND channel 40 something is wrong....
each channel has a frequency... or wave length... you adjust the SWR to the channel you use the most or to Channel 20.... that way if 20 is perfect, ( or the best that you can get it )as you go up on channels the wave length gets longer......the SWR goes a little less perfect or if you go down the channels the wave length gets shorter.... again the SWR gets a little less than the perfect 1.0

you are adjusting the length of your antenna to work with the CB wave length ...each channel has a different wave length.
Channel 01 and channel 40 can't be the same SWR reading

... if channel 40 is at SWR of 1.0...... as you change to the lower channels ( or wave length ) it has to change.... most times about the best you can do is get 1.0 on one channel ( 01 or 40 ) and 1.3 to 1.4 on the opposite channel (01 or 40 ) ...but it's impossible to have 1.0 on both....
usually when that happens your ground plane is not good and the antenna is using the Coax as a ground plane and fooling the SWR meter..... when that happens adjusting the antenna up or down hardly makes a change in SWR.

I see this on the Firestik type antenna's all the time.. if you put that antenna on a magnetic base mount and place it on the roof or on the hood/ trunk ...some place with a large metal area the magnetic mount will actually get a good ground plane and you will see the SWR difference. ... I keep a cheap $30 3/8 X 24" threaded mag mount just for testing. 3/8 mag mount it's amazing to see how much better everything works, once you have a ground plane

you will find the SWR reading to be somewhere from 1 to 7 difference ... as an example 1.3 on channel one and 1.8 on channel forty
here is a picture of a magnetic type mount.... only showing the mount to show you what I like to experiment with... amazing the difference when you have a ground plane UNDER the antenna.... sometimes when the antenna floats above the fender mount it can't get a ground plane.

I understand you can't leave a mag mount on.... I was only suggesting the mag mount for testing.... but I would double check the antenna or try to get the antenna mount better grounded to the hood... use large 1 1/4" RF grounding straps.... see picture of my fender and hood firewall, connected on both sides of the fenders and hood and firewall....

if everything seems to be working for you and your happy with the range let it be... but 1.0 on both 1 and 40 means something is wrong.

Generally, if you get SWR 1.0 on channel 1 AND channel 40 something is wrong....
each channel has a frequency... or wave length... you adjust the SWR to the channel you use the most or to Channel 20.... that way if 20 is perfect, ( or the best that you can get it )as you go up on channels the wave length gets longer......the SWR goes a little less perfect or if you go down the channels the wave length gets shorter.... again the SWR gets a little less than the perfect 1.0

you are adjusting the length of your antenna to work with the CB wave length ...each channel has a different wave length.
Channel 01 and channel 40 can't be the same SWR reading

... if channel 40 is at SWR of 1.0...... as you change to the lower channels ( or wave length ) it has to change.... most times about the best you can do is get 1.0 on one channel ( 01 or 40 ) and 1.3 to 1.4 on the opposite channel (01 or 40 ) ...but it's impossible to have 1.0 on both....
usually when that happens your ground plane is not good and the antenna is using the Coax as a ground plane and fooling the SWR meter..... when that happens adjusting the antenna up or down hardly makes a change in SWR.

I see this on the Firestik type antenna's all the time.. if you put that antenna on a magnetic base mount and place it on the roof or on the hood/ trunk ...some place with a large metal area the magnetic mount will actually get a good ground plane and you will see the SWR difference. ... I keep a cheap $30 3/8 X 24" threaded mag mount just for testing. 3/8 mag mount it's amazing to see how much better everything works, once you have a ground plane

you will find the SWR reading to be somewhere from 1 to 7 difference ... as an example 1.3 on channel one and 1.8 on channel forty
here is a picture of a magnetic type mount.... only showing the mount to show you what I like to experiment with... amazing the difference when you have a ground plane UNDER the antenna.... sometimes when the antenna floats above the fender mount it can't get a ground plane.

I understand you can't leave a mag mount on.... I was only suggesting the mag mount for testing.... but I would double check the antenna or try to get the antenna mount better grounded to the hood... use large 1 1/4" RF grounding straps.... see picture of my fender and hood firewall, connected on both sides of the fenders and hood and firewall....

if everything seems to be working for you and your happy with the range let it be... but 1.0 on both 1 and 40 means something is wrong.

Thanks for the information. I approach the tuning of my antenna based on what I read in this article: How to Tune a CB Antenna | CB World

The antenna mount I’m using is a front fender mount and it screws right into the body of the truck so I would think it should be fairly well grounded. When I tried the fire and I mentioned in my original, I utilize the same amount since it’s threaded to 3/8 of an inch, and even though the fire stick had a tunable tip, I was unable to get below 2.5 which is too high. When I first installed the hustler HQ 27 in the same mount, I got a reading of 1.0 on channel one and 1.8 or 1.9 on channel 40. I incrementally Shaved an eighth of an inch at a time off the mast until the SWR drop below 1.5 on channel 40. If I would’ve shave it any more than I already have than my SWR on channel 1 would begin to rise.

 

[Ensnared]

I have been meaning to do this video for over a year! I watched Far Point Farms YouTube do a Tram 3500 Range test and get 18 miles range with a 4 watt radio..... my old radio is a 10 watts AM /FM with 25 watts on SSB so I figured I would do much better.
not that I'm competing with him or anything... but I always share his video as I am so impressed with how that antenna performed..... I would much rather share my video.... but I never feel like making it! LOT more work into making it... measuring the distance setting up camera's and editing it than you think.
so I went to Cape Cod not a lot of spots I can drive 20 miles without going into Boston and tall buildings or to another coast towards New Bedford / Fairhaven and that is going through a thick forest. so I went to the Cape...
I didn't want to go to Cape Cod but that was my best bet to get 20 miles. all the other roads keep circling me back to my area meaning it won't be 20 miles in a straight line from the house. ( I am 8 miles from the ocean if I get to the ocean I can only drive up or down the coast, I drive and drive and drive but the miles from my house stay about the same.... think of a big circle with my house in the middle... it's always 8 to 10 miles.)
once I was over the bridge it was thick forest and about 5 miles before I could turn around... no land marks to figure out how many miles out I was until I turned around under the 130 highway..... 20.14 miles away...sadly going under Route 130 I was in a low spot ... when I got home I listened to the recording and swore I heard me saying highway 130 test 1 2 3 .... ( I still swear I can hear me saying 10:07 ).... but making the video today no matter how much I stretch my ears I can't seem to make me out.
the bridge is 275 feet tall and has 135 feet under it for ships to pass... but your totally encased in metal so I didn't think it would transmit as I would be in a Faraday cage..... I have a little Chinese watt meter and SWR meter / SWR warning meter.... if the SWR is over 2 it beeps and tells me..... it was going off on the bridge quite a bit! so I guess that metal affected the SWR.... but I had a fantastic signal after the bridge 16.60 miles from my Base.
I need to put an intro video and an exit video on this... but I wanted to share it with a friend today and will make the intro / exit next week and change it on YouTube.
I thought I would share it with everyone here too..
I want to go and do the exact same test but use my Stryker Sar-10 antenna and see if it's any better..... but I know everyday the conditions are different so no way to really tell.... but I still plan on doing it sometime.
if your interested watch if not don't...

well one of my YouTube tests I have planned soon is going to be
My HOA CB antenna
I know a lot of people come into the forum asking how to get a CB Base Station up without the antenna because they live in a HOA.
I always say just buy a good magnet mount mobile CB Antenna like the Sirio Performer 5000 and buy a 100 feet of RG8X and a barrel connector.... if you live in a HOA you still usually have a home with a driveway..... so plop the antenna on top of the car and run the coax to the base station.... I hear people talking skip all over the country from mobiles everyday so I think they would have fun with that... and for local AM I think it would give them all around town range...

but I tell people that and I don't actually know if it works???? does the antenna have to be on a ground plane that shares the negative side of the CB negative wire??... meaning can I have the base station on a power supply in the house and only have the antenna on the roof of my old chevy??

so I will park my old chevy in the driveway and slap my Stryker SAR-10 on the roof.... then I will talk skip and then I will send some friends out in my F-150 to see how far they can get.... .... should be a fun video and if it works maybe some people in a HOA can start enjoying the hobby too

The Tram 3500 is an incredible antenna. I am using the 5" magnetic base/boot setup, with a choice of Cobra 25 Classic, Anytone 500-M (current), & Cobra 29 Classic. It sounds great on all. I haven't put it on new pickup yet. Hopefully, there will be better performance with it being higher. Stinger perfect.

 

[slowmover]

Hi Slomover,

I had a tried a Firestick on my Honda Ridgeline, but couldn't get it to tune right. I tried it because I wanted to get away from a magnet mount. I had been using a Wilson 1000, but I live in manhattan so it was a drag taking it off and putting it back everyday to avoid theft. I had called Walcott Radio and President ( the maker of the radio ) for a suggested permanent location. They both advised against the bumper and suggested a front fender mount. President suggested their 5 foot Maryland base coil antenna. It gave me a great SWR ( 1.0 on channel 1 and 40 ), but I was not iumpressed with the range compared to the wilson 1000 mag mount on the roof. I then came across a 3 three year old video on youtube made by a guy with a similar problem AND was getting a poor SWR reading as well. He tried a Hustler HQ 27B 55 inch center loaded antenna. What a difference! Much better range and an SWR reading of 1.0 on channels 1 and 40. When I called Walcott back and asked them why they hadn't suggested that antenna, they told me it was because Hustler stopped making it! I couldn't believe it. It's such a great antenna. Prior to this Walcott said it was their "Go To" Antenna for front fender mounts. Luckily I was able to find some for sale on Amazon.

Those are made just a few miles from me.
Newtronics, in Mineral Wells, TX.

Was my first antenna 50-years ago. I had the antenna mount on the Ford coupe trunk cowling.

Grab a second HQ27 as backup if you really like it. It’s sturdy as can be.

The man in the vid just needed to swap a longer lower shaft for the WILSON (WALCOTT RADIO) and then trim the upper whip to suit.

The HQ27 is very low key in appearance. The 55” height was so it would fit West Coast big truck mirror brackets (way back when) and not get too tall for the majority of roads.

Just move the resonator to get readings best.

FLITZ Metal Polish will keep them looking newest.

.

 

[slowmover]

The Tram 3500 is an incredible antenna. I am using the 5" magnetic base/boot setup, with a choice of Cobra 25 Classic, Anytone 500-M (current), & Cobra 29 Classic. It sounds great on all. I haven't put it on new pickup yet. Hopefully, there will be better performance with it being higher. Stinger perfect.

Best Mobile 2025

A general: what should I recommend to friends who want high performance in Citizen Band? Let’s ballpark it at $500 entry. Will last longer than the time they own the automobile. Seatbelts, Concealed Carry, and CITIZEN BAND. This thread aimed at YOU, not the guy who knows even less. However...

forums.radioreference.com

QT80 & NMO34b + W640 whip & Springb

There’s no good reason to settle for less.

D-E DRX-901 speaker

L-MAX Low Vibration Mount With Multi-Device Options

The L-MAX will hold up to 8.2 lbs. If you have multiple devices that you want to mount on one mount with little movement, this collection may be for you. This is collection of extension plates and adapters for All HT's, remote head. brackets, smart-phones and tablets. Please check to see if you...

www.lidoradio.com

Headrest external speaker mount

You can attach any communications speaker to this mount as long as the mount has a mounting bracket. In most cases the holes with this mount will line up with the holes in the mounting bracket that is attached to your speaker, but they may not. If that is the case you would need to drill holes...

www.lidoradio.com

You’ll be the Malinois among the mutts.

.

 

[Xman46]

Those are made just a few miles from me.
Newtronics, in Mineral Wells, TX.

Was my first antenna 50-years ago. I had the antenna mount on the Ford coupe trunk cowling.

Grab a second HQ27 as backup if you really like it. It’s sturdy as can be.

The man in the vid just needed to swap a longer lower shaft for the WILSON (WALCOTT RADIO) and then trim the upper whip to suit.

The HQ27 is very low key in appearance. The 55” height was so it would fit West Coast big truck mirror brackets (way back when) and not get too tall for the majority of roads.

Just move the resonator to get readings best.

FLITZ Metal Polish will keep them looking newest.

.

Great advice, thanks! Since they don’t make them anymore I should grab a second one.

 

[707ways2Sunday]

Generally, if you get SWR 1.0 on channel 1 AND channel 40 something is wrong....
each channel has a frequency... or wave length... you adjust the SWR to the channel you use the most or to Channel 20.... that way if 20 is perfect, ( or the best that you can get it )as you go up on channels the wave length gets longer......the SWR goes a little less perfect or if you go down the channels the wave length gets shorter.... again the SWR gets a little less than the perfect 1.0

NG71, great post by the way. Very informative. But does the wavelength get longer as you go up in frequency?

 

[Xman46]

NG71, great post by the way. Very informative. But does the wavelength get longer as you go up in frequency?

Hey 707,

When I recently got back into CB I found this article online about tuning. How to Tune a CB Antenna | CB World

According to the article, the objective is to get the SWR reading on both channels 1 and 40 as close as possible to each other, ideally the same. You are shooting for a reading of 1.5 or below. Once you achieve this, the readings on the other 38 channels will fall between the readings on channel 1 and 40. CB world is a pretty good site so I would think you could rely on it.

 

[707ways2Sunday]

Hey 707,

When I recently got back into CB I found this article online about tuning. How to Tune a CB Antenna | CB World

According to the article, the objective is to get the SWR reading on both channels 1 and 40 as close as possible to each other, ideally the same. You are shooting for a reading of 1.5 or below. Once you achieve this, the readings on the other 38 channels will fall between the readings on channel 1 and 40. CB world is a pretty good site so I would think you could rely on it.

Thanks for sharing the resource. But I was just pointing out in my own awkward way that NG71 might have inadvertently switched the relationship between frequency and wavelength when he stated ‘as you go up in frequency, the wavelength gets longer. Down in frequency the wavelength gets shorter’

 

[EAFrizzle]

One thing about these new radios that transmit effectively outside of 10/11 meters, is that you need to tune your antenna closer to that range you'll be using. I tune for lowest SWR at 27.400; that gives me plenty of 2:1 bandwidth to below Ch. 1 to about 27.800. I spend most of my time between about .365 and .675. You'll want to adjust for your preferred frequency.

The new crop of export radios are much better at dealing with some mismatch than older ones or straight-up CBs. I run my
QT-60Pro at the edges of my bandwidth with no consequences other than reduced output power. If I need to go out of that, I have transmatches available. 😎

 

[mark40]

D-E DRX-901 speaker.

@slowmover - purchased this speaker for my mobile mounted scanner, something I rely on as a Vol.FF. The audio quality is superior to say the least. I had a small, crummy, cheap eBay purchased external speaker. Lesson learned, never again will I scrimp on a speaker. Thank you.

 

[slowmover]

@slowmover - purchased this speaker for my mobile mounted scanner, something I rely on as a Vol.FF. The audio quality is superior to say the least. I had a small, crummy, cheap eBay purchased external speaker. Lesson learned, never again will I scrimp on a speaker. Thank you.

You’re welcome.

It’s an irony, isn't it, that we’ll spend hundreds on a nice system then cheap out on the component to tie that all together.

 

[niceguy71]

Thanks for sharing the resource. But I was just pointing out in my own awkward way that NG71 might have inadvertently switched the relationship between frequency and wavelength when he stated ‘as you go up in frequency, the wavelength gets longer. Down in frequency the wavelength gets shorter’

believe me I'm no expert .. (I'm not even smart)

this was just my understanding... in a long about way I was just trying to explain that the SWR on two channels can never be the same.. when people see channel #1 and #40 with the same reading... something is wrong... if you look at my expensive SWR meter... you will see as the frequencies go up or down, the SWR changes... the more the frequencies change, the more the SWR change... ( I believe as the frequencies change the wavelength changes... maybe I have it wrong???) I believe when you lengthen or shorten your antenna you are trying to get the antenna to match the wavelength of the CB channels #1 though #40 .... one channel will always be a better match than the others.. as you can only get a perfect match on one channel ( or as close as possible) and as you get off that channel the SWR will be a little less.... anything under 2.0 is fine and anything under 1.5 is excellent.

in my picture you will see the top frequency is channel #1 and the bottom frequency is channel #40

so my channel #20 is SWR of 1.36 as I go below channel 20 my antenna is still working fine but not as good as if I went up the channels...

 

[Xman46]

believe me I'm no expert .. (I'm not even smart)

this was just my understanding... in a long about way I was just trying to explain that the SWR on two channels can never be the same.. when people see channel #1 and #40 with the same reading... something is wrong... if you look at my expensive SWR meter... you will see as the frequencies go up or down, the SWR changes... the more the frequencies change, the more the SWR change... ( I believe as the frequencies change the wavelength changes... maybe I have it wrong???) I believe when you lengthen or shorten your antenna you are trying to get the antenna to match the wavelength of the CB channels #1 though #40 .... one channel will always be a better match than the others.. as you can only get a perfect match on one channel ( or as close as possible) and as you get off that channel the SWR will be a little less.... anything under 2.0 is fine and anything under 1.5 is excellent.

in my picture you will see the top frequency is channel #1 and the bottom frequency is channel #40

so my channel #20 is SWR of 1.36 as I go below channel 20 my antenna is still working fine but not as good as if I went up the channels...

I hear you. I’m no expert either which is consulted CBworld.com. According to the writer of that article, the objective is to get the SWR reading on both channel one and 40 as close as possible if not matching. Further, the goal is to get both of those readings below 1.5. Now, since I don’t think it’s possible for the SWR meter to show a reading of less than 1.0, if both channels 1 and 40 are at or below 1.5, they are essentially giving the same reading since there’s not much room there. The writer goes on to specifically state that if you achieve this on channels 1 and channel 40, that the readings on all the other 38 channels will fall between the reading on channel 1 and channel 40. I have tried three different antennas on my radio and while I haven’t always been able to get the SWR reading down to 1.0, I have reliably gotten them down to 1.5 or less on both channels 1 and channel 40. Sometimes I had to tune the antenna by cutting off a small portion, but I was nevertheless able to tune it. And then I checked the SWR reading on the other 38 channels meaning channels 2 through 39 and just like the article said the readings on all of those channels fell between the reading on channel one and the reading on channel 40. Like I said I’m far from an expert, but the article was extremely in-depth and I highly doubt that a site like CB world would allow an inaccurate article to go up online.

 

[707ways2Sunday]

believe me I'm no expert .. (I'm not even smart)

this was just my understanding... in a long about way I was just trying to explain that the SWR on two channels can never be the same.. when people see channel #1 and #40 with the same reading... something is wrong... if you look at my expensive SWR meter... you will see as the frequencies go up or down, the SWR changes... the more the frequencies change, the more the SWR change... ( I believe as the frequencies change the wavelength changes... maybe I have it wrong???) I believe when you lengthen or shorten your antenna you are trying to get the antenna to match the wavelength of the CB channels #1 though #40 .... one channel will always be a better match than the others.. as you can only get a perfect match on one channel ( or as close as possible) and as you get off that channel the SWR will be a little less.... anything under 2.0 is fine and anything under 1.5 is excellent.

in my picture you will see the top frequency is channel #1 and the bottom frequency is channel #40

so my channel #20 is SWR of 1.36 as I go below channel 20 my antenna is still working fine but not as good as if I went up the channels...

believe me I'm no expert .. (I'm not even smart)

this was just my understanding... in a long about way I was just trying to explain that the SWR on two channels can never be the same.. when people see channel #1 and #40 with the same reading... something is wrong... if you look at my expensive SWR meter... you will see as the frequencies go up or down, the SWR changes... the more the frequencies change, the more the SWR change... ( I believe as the frequencies change the wavelength changes... maybe I have it wrong???) I believe when you lengthen or shorten your antenna you are trying to get the antenna to match the wavelength of the CB channels #1 though #40 .... one channel will always be a better match than the others.. as you can only get a perfect match on one channel ( or as close as possible) and as you get off that channel the SWR will be a little less.... anything under 2.0 is fine and anything under 1.5 is excellent.

in my picture you will see the top frequency is channel #1 and the bottom frequency is channel #40

so my channel #20 is SWR of 1.36 as I go below channel 20 my antenna is still working fine but not as good as if I went up the channels...

Well you posts seem very helpful and knowledgeable. You explained things very clearly in that post. You just got that part backwards. No expert here either.

For the record though as you go up in frequency the wavelength gets shorter. Down in frequency wavelengths get longer.

 

[mmckenna]

I hear you. I’m no expert either which is consulted CBworld.com. According to the writer of that article, the objective is to get the SWR reading on both channel one and 40 as close as possible if not matching.

Here's a good visual example of what this would look like on an antenna analyzer. This is a Larsen NMO-27 permanent NMO mount in the center of the cab of a crew cab pickup:


1.31:1 on Channel 1
1.07:1 on Channel 19
1.35:1 on Channel 40

By getting Channel 1 and 40 pretty close, it ~should~ mean that your channel 19 (center of the band) is going to be lowest. This is not always going to be 100% accurate as you could have a very flat reading/broad band antenna and it wouldn't mean the center of the band is lowest. One should always check the center of the band in addition to the edges if using an SWR meter, or a non-graphical type analyzer.

Further, the goal is to get both of those readings below 1.5. Now, since I don’t think it’s possible for the SWR meter to show a reading of less than 1.0, if both channels 1 and 40 are at or below 1.5, they are essentially giving the same reading since there’s not much room there.

It's a ratio, amount of transmitted power compared to the amount of reflected power. SWR can't be below 1, and a good meter shouldn't show that.

The writer goes on to specifically state that if you achieve this on channels 1 and channel 40, that the readings on all the other 38 channels will fall between the reading on channel 1 and channel 40.

That's pretty accurate. There are some things that can throw this off, like a dead short or open at exactly 1/4 wavelength of coax electrical length, or a dummy load, or other. But for most CB users with a decent antenna and no other faults, it's generally accurate.

I have tried three different antennas on my radio and while I haven’t always been able to get the SWR reading down to 1.0, I have reliably gotten them down to 1.5 or less on both channels 1 and channel 40. Sometimes I had to tune the antenna by cutting off a small portion, but I was nevertheless able to tune it. And then I checked the SWR reading on the other 38 channels meaning channels 2 through 39 and just like the article said the readings on all of those channels fell between the reading on channel one and the reading on channel 40. Like I said I’m far from an expert, but the article was extremely in-depth and I highly doubt that a site like CB world would allow an inaccurate article to go up online.

Unlikely you'd ever see an antenna showing the mythical "perfect" 1.0:1. There's normal things that will throw it off. Even a good 50Ω load won't necessarily read 1.0:1 across it's usable bandwidth.
Plus, usually it's going to be unnoticeable once you get it down around 1.5. the amount of difference in radiated power is going to be so small, you'd need some very accurate equipment to really notice the difference.