I've had a F70D now for about 2 days. The scan is VERY slow, takes an extra two seconds to pick up an active channel than moto HT's. Reason given is that they are being used as pagers... Anybody used them as JUST radios? Using them to page decode makes them unusable as P25 radios (won't even decode P25). Scan is VERY slow. Battery eaten in less than 12 hours in analog... I'm thinking these were designed for use mostly in digital...?
Icom F70D - Anybody Use (Seems Crappy)
- Thread starter MattRiley
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n1das
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I own a pair of ICOM IC-F70DT handhelds. Never again, no more ICOM radios for me. They work OK but I've found a few quirks with them. I'm leaning toward KENWOOD and Motorola radios in the future. My use of these is for Amateur Radio.
Battery life...just plain $uck$ to put it bluntly. The stock battery is 1600mAh. The newest hi-capacity battery is 3040mAh which should help increase operating time to an acceptable level. The radio is a battey hog like other P25 radios. I think it's a P25 thing but it's still a hog even for analog-only operation. I recall reading that the Motorola P25 portables are also battery hogs and Motorola now has a 4000mAh battery pack available for them. I know about the new hi-cap battery for the F70D because I recently ordered one to replace a dying battery pack in one of my F70DTs.
I don't know about why the scan rate would be so slow other than it might be trying to scan with the battery save function ON. IOW, each time the radio "wakes up" after each battery save "sleep" interval, it wakes up on the next channel being scanned. Battery save can be ON or OFF during scan but having it on greatly slows the scan rate. The battery save feature must be OFF in the programming for it to scan at a normal scan rate.
RF performance overall is excellent like other ICOM commercial radios. No complaints there. P25 digital operation is a different matter. The F70D doesn't have any sort of Automatic Gain Control (AGC) for the P25 transmit and receive audio like the Motorolas do to help smooth out wild fluctuations in P25 volume level. The effect on the P25 receive audio is the volume ends up being all over the place. When I listen to NH SP with it, I'll often hear a trooper at very low volume and then dispatch will just about blast me out of the car with it. An AGC function which even some P25-capable scanners now have would help smooth out the P25 receive volume level. I've found I like listening to P25 audio better on my RadioShack Pro-96 handheld compared to the F70D's P25 audio. I find it easier to listen to on the Pro-96 because of the AGC function for the P25 receive audio.
The P25 capability works as advertised and my only major complaint is the lack of AGC for the P25 receive audio. I think ICOM didn't implement any sort of AGC function because it's not part of the P25 standard. Radios that do have this function is an enhancement done by the radio manufacturers.
I haven't used my F70DTs for any paging functions at all so I can't help there.
I've actually had one of my F70DTs fail and had to go back to ICOM...twice! One of my F70DTs lost all P25 functions and became an analog-only radio. ICOM replaced it at no charge under warranty. Now here it is about a year later and the replacement has also died in a similar way. My dealer sent it out to ICOM a little over a week ago and we're waiting to hear what's going on with it and whether or not it will be covered under warranty.
My older F70DT is still chugging along fine. Both radios were programmed exactly the same and from the same file in the programming software, so I know they were programmed correctly. That was the first thing I thought of when I found the failure. Both radios were recently programmed again with the same file verifty that they were programmed correctly and the older one still works fine and dead one is still DEAD. :-(
Bottom line is I'm keeping my F70DTs for now but future P25 radios are likely to be KENWOOD and Motorola gear. Whether or not I get the second F70DT repaired or scrap it depends on what ICOM says about it and if they'll cover it under warranty.
Good luck.
Battery life...just plain $uck$ to put it bluntly. The stock battery is 1600mAh. The newest hi-capacity battery is 3040mAh which should help increase operating time to an acceptable level. The radio is a battey hog like other P25 radios. I think it's a P25 thing but it's still a hog even for analog-only operation. I recall reading that the Motorola P25 portables are also battery hogs and Motorola now has a 4000mAh battery pack available for them. I know about the new hi-cap battery for the F70D because I recently ordered one to replace a dying battery pack in one of my F70DTs.
I don't know about why the scan rate would be so slow other than it might be trying to scan with the battery save function ON. IOW, each time the radio "wakes up" after each battery save "sleep" interval, it wakes up on the next channel being scanned. Battery save can be ON or OFF during scan but having it on greatly slows the scan rate. The battery save feature must be OFF in the programming for it to scan at a normal scan rate.
RF performance overall is excellent like other ICOM commercial radios. No complaints there. P25 digital operation is a different matter. The F70D doesn't have any sort of Automatic Gain Control (AGC) for the P25 transmit and receive audio like the Motorolas do to help smooth out wild fluctuations in P25 volume level. The effect on the P25 receive audio is the volume ends up being all over the place. When I listen to NH SP with it, I'll often hear a trooper at very low volume and then dispatch will just about blast me out of the car with it. An AGC function which even some P25-capable scanners now have would help smooth out the P25 receive volume level. I've found I like listening to P25 audio better on my RadioShack Pro-96 handheld compared to the F70D's P25 audio. I find it easier to listen to on the Pro-96 because of the AGC function for the P25 receive audio.
The P25 capability works as advertised and my only major complaint is the lack of AGC for the P25 receive audio. I think ICOM didn't implement any sort of AGC function because it's not part of the P25 standard. Radios that do have this function is an enhancement done by the radio manufacturers.
I haven't used my F70DTs for any paging functions at all so I can't help there.
I've actually had one of my F70DTs fail and had to go back to ICOM...twice! One of my F70DTs lost all P25 functions and became an analog-only radio. ICOM replaced it at no charge under warranty. Now here it is about a year later and the replacement has also died in a similar way. My dealer sent it out to ICOM a little over a week ago and we're waiting to hear what's going on with it and whether or not it will be covered under warranty.
My older F70DT is still chugging along fine. Both radios were programmed exactly the same and from the same file in the programming software, so I know they were programmed correctly. That was the first thing I thought of when I found the failure. Both radios were recently programmed again with the same file verifty that they were programmed correctly and the older one still works fine and dead one is still DEAD. :-(
Bottom line is I'm keeping my F70DTs for now but future P25 radios are likely to be KENWOOD and Motorola gear. Whether or not I get the second F70DT repaired or scrap it depends on what ICOM says about it and if they'll cover it under warranty.
Good luck.
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Thanks David. What did you pay for yours? At Least mine was provided as a duty issue to me. Where did you buy the programming cable / soft? It must be, like you said, the power save function that slows scan, I tried changing the sq. with the user menu with little improvement. Also, do you happen to know what AFMIN stands for in the user menu?
Yea, it seems like the tone decode puts this thing to shame. I cant believe it cant operate in P25 with tone decode alert enabled. ICOM evidently said they will fix it in a coming firmware upgrade.
Looking to reprogram it myself to take the pager function out. I bought myself a minitor 4 for that very reason... I accept the fact that it is a radio and not a pager... Unlike some of our staff which insist it should be both. It sure makes communications difficult when radios dont return to scan for tac and such after being alerted...
I agree with you on the RF point. when it does pick up traffic, audio quality in analog is excellent.
What do you set your squelch at?
Anyway, thanks for your help. I just wish we could get these working well.
Matt
Yea, it seems like the tone decode puts this thing to shame. I cant believe it cant operate in P25 with tone decode alert enabled. ICOM evidently said they will fix it in a coming firmware upgrade.
Looking to reprogram it myself to take the pager function out. I bought myself a minitor 4 for that very reason... I accept the fact that it is a radio and not a pager... Unlike some of our staff which insist it should be both. It sure makes communications difficult when radios dont return to scan for tac and such after being alerted...
I agree with you on the RF point. when it does pick up traffic, audio quality in analog is excellent.
What do you set your squelch at?
Anyway, thanks for your help. I just wish we could get these working well.
Matt
iamhere300
Member
I replaced my HT1250 with an F70, and love it. Can't say much about digital modes as I have not used that yet.
Hamradiostuffing
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I would recommend contacting Rodney Grim he is the Technical Support Manger for ICOM.
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