R8600 Icom R8500 vs R8600

[Napalm]

I've got some money burning a hole in my pocket.

I just bought an almost pristine R7000 for $200, and I'm hooked on Icom communication receivers(again). I have a PCR-1000 sitting unused and a PCR-100 that also sits in a box.

There's a guy on eBay selling the 8500 for $800 and new 8600s are going for $2500(ish).

I already own a bunch of regular scanners and SDR dongles. The 8600 would mainly be used for milair scanning (not searching) and just to have a really sensitive/good receiver that I can control remotely, log and record while I'm out of the house.

I guess I want someone to try and either talk me out of buying the 8600 or talk me into buying the 8500 LOL.

I do live close to some very strong (kW range) FM transmitters that play havoc with the basic SDR dongles but I don't see a peep out of them on the 7000.

Thanks,
Dave.

 

[prcguy]

The Icom R8500 is a dog in performance compared to the R8600 and the prices are somewhat in line with their performance.

 

[Napalm]

The Icom R8500 is a dog in performance compared to the R8600 and the prices are somewhat in line with their performance.

Thanks. I saw your comments on another thread. Have yours had any display issues or anything else you had to send it back to Icom for?

 

[prcguy]

Check the Sherwood engineering receiver test data here: Receiver Test Data

Rob Sherwood has been performance testing receivers and transceivers for many years and ranking them according to narrow spaced third order dynamic range, or how well they might perform with many high level signals nearby such as a multi radio field day site. Out of all the radios ever tested the R8600 ranks number five and the R8500 is down around 145th near the bottom of the list.

I've had no issues at all with my R8600 and have had it for many years now but it doesn't get a lot of use.

 

[bearcatrp]

If your going to get the R8600, get it from a reputable dealer like HRO. A little more than what they are listing on ebay. Have had the 8500. Good radio but the R8600 blows it out of the water. Never had a issue with the diplay. Have owned mine for 2 years. You will love the waterfall display on the R8600. Its worth every penny.

 

[Napalm]

If your going to get the R8600, get it from a reputable dealer like HRO. A little more than what they are listing on ebay. Have had the 8500. Good radio but the R8600 blows it out of the water. Never had a issue with the diplay. Have owned mine for 2 years. You will love the waterfall display on the R8600. Its worth every penny.

Yeah I saw the "cheap" ones on eBay that come from Japan. Looks enticing but you have customs fees assuming they don't confiscate it lol.

 

[belvdr]

Check the Sherwood engineering receiver test data here: Receiver Test Data

Rob Sherwood has been performance testing receivers and transceivers for many years and ranking them according to narrow spaced third order dynamic range, or how well they might perform with many high level signals nearby such as a multi radio field day site. Out of all the radios ever tested the R8600 ranks number five and the R8500 is down around 145th near the bottom of the list.

I've had no issues at all with my R8600 and have had it for many years now but it doesn't get a lot of use.

Of note, there are two in his list.

 

[prcguy]

Of note, there are two in his list.

The top performing one on the list is Rob Sherwoods personal radio. The lower performing one is my personal radio I loaned to Rob for testing. So far there is no good explanation on why two identical radios differ in performance that much.

 

[belvdr]

The top performing one on the list is Rob Sherwoods personal radio. The lower performing one is my personal radio I loaned to Rob for testing. So far there is no good explanation on why two identical radios differ in performance that much.

Were they close in manufacturing?

 

[G7RUX]

The 8500 is quite a tricky receiver to align properly and many I come across have been iffy from the factory. I used to run a set of 12 of them in a VHF-and-up monitoring array and their performance varied wildly from one unit to another. Each one spent a couple of days on my bench rig being aligned and tested and they eventually all performed quite closely with each other and were pretty good. That system was in use for a decade until it was replaced with 48 custom designed SDR receivers.

None of the 8500 were especially good below 25 MHz but I believe that’s mainly due to their architecture, from memory.

 

[ArloG]

I would have to say that after sending my R8500 to a former Icom tech in Georgia by a suggestion from the Icom service center.
It performs very well. Some flags were the unavailability of a discontinued RF amp. transistor. Now I see tape rolls of NOS ones being sold.
My VFO encoder was long worn out and tuning got a bit fuzzy. That got fixed.
But. It's a 'dial spinner'.
Meaning once you use a radio with a bandscope. It will be hard to go back. My R8500 is tuned using frequencies found on my R8600.
Pretty easy to tune right past intermittent transmissions. With a bandscope you see them.
Decisions, decisions. A used R8500 condition unknown for that much? Maybe for a nostalgia piece in a collection.
800 hard-earned samolians would sure buy a nice SDR radio. Or two.
I didn't mention IF filters. The R8500 leaves a lot to be desired. Using the R8600 with SDR software. The sky's the limit.
Save and get an R8600? Not sure. With its age now. Who knows if Icom will slip out a successor any time soon.
Because they also have deficiencies that folks are screaming for.

I love the smell of tubes in the morning.

 

[Napalm]

I would have to say that after sending my R8500 to a former Icom tech in Georgia by a suggestion from the Icom service center.
It performs very well. Some flags were the unavailability of a discontinued RF amp. transistor. Now I see tape rolls of NOS ones being sold.
My VFO encoder was long worn out and tuning got a bit fuzzy. That got fixed.
But. It's a 'dial spinner'.
Meaning once you use a radio with a bandscope. It will be hard to go back. My R8500 is tuned using frequencies found on my R8600.
Pretty easy to tune right past intermittent transmissions. With a bandscope you see them.
Decisions, decisions. A used R8500 condition unknown for that much? Maybe for a nostalgia piece in a collection.
800 hard-earned samolians would sure buy a nice SDR radio. Or two.
I didn't mention IF filters. The R8500 leaves a lot to be desired. Using the R8600 with SDR software. The sky's the limit.
Save and get an R8600? Not sure. With its age now. Who knows if Icom will slip out a successor any time soon.
Because they also have deficiencies that folks are screaming for.

I love the smell of tubes in the morning.

That's also what I was wondering too - is the 8600 about to be superceeded? Possibly, but not for less than 3k. lol.

IDK. I like the idea of great RF performance and an SDR / waterfall. Right now I'm using the Frequency Scanner plug in and an RTLSDR v4, coupled to a home brew milair antenna which is fed down coax via a 25dB or so amp and then into a bandpass filter for 225-400 (I think prcguy might have been the one who sold it to me years ago, I'm not sure. The seller asked if I wanted some hardline SMA along with it - seems like something he'd do). Anyway, the point is it scans really quickly and I then use the R7000 to tune into the transmissions - honestly though the RF performance of that RTL set up is pretty comparable to the R7000.

again - I don't know. LOL.

 

[prcguy]

Were they close in manufacturing?

I would say purchased within the same year. One is a US blocked version and the other is unblocked, but that shouldn't affect performance.

 

[ArloG]

That's also what I was wondering too - is the 8600 about to be superceeded? Possibly, but not for less than 3k. lol.

IDK. I like the idea of great RF performance and an SDR / waterfall. Right now I'm using the Frequency Scanner plug in and an RTLSDR v4, coupled to a home brew milair antenna which is fed down coax via a 25dB or so amp and then into a bandpass filter for 225-400 (I think prcguy might have been the one who sold it to me years ago, I'm not sure. The seller asked if I wanted some hardline SMA along with it - seems like something he'd do). Anyway, the point is it scans really quickly and I then use the R7000 to tune into the transmissions - honestly though the RF performance of that RTL set up is pretty comparable to the R7000.

again - I don't know. LOL.

Just remember. Like my 8500 that I've had for many years. Your 7000 is quite vintage. If it has never at least had the rf section checked and realigned. You may be missing some of the performance that was there when it was new in the box.

G7RUX stated a very interesting finding. But after giving the radios some personal attention they performed equally well.
The RTL dongles started out as tv tuners. They have little in the way if internal filtering.
Other SDR radios that either use the same chipset or dedicated ones are engineered from the start for ham use.
Something to think about. Yes? I mean. 20 bucks gets you in. 200 gets you in the champagne room.

I will say that somewhere in my stack of manuals and stuff is the report of my R8500. Measured sensitivity when on the bench and after the alignment was done. And it was more sensitive when I got it back. Something noticed right away.
So. If you consider getting that probably well used radio. Be prepared to expect more that just isn't there.

And what if your R7000 had a tune-up (providing you had the bench equipment to do it or found someone willing)?
A really good sdr radio will blow that dongle in the wind. I own an SDRPlay RSP2. Great wideband performance for the price spent a few years back.
Then I got my R8600. Never went back until recently.
As is typical for RR. I am working on getting DSD+ working with the RSP2. And doing a lot of reading of posts here and other places before asking questions before getting sometimes arrogant responses.

Not saying get it but not saying don't either. If you're dead set and focused on getting the R8500. I can't encourage you or discourage you.
They are not like Collins, National, Hallicrafters rigs. Hope that makes sense at least a little bit.
Don't get blinded by a little free Heliax. An attempt at getting back lost sensitivity to rule the radio out that didn't fix the problem?

 

[Napalm]

Just remember. Like my 8500 that I've had for many years. Your 7000 is quite vintage. If it has never at least had the rf section checked and realigned. You may be missing some of the performance that was there when it was new in the box.

G7RUX stated a very interesting finding. But after giving the radios some personal attention they performed equally well.
The RTL dongles started out as tv tuners. They have little in the way if internal filtering.
Other SDR radios that either use the same chipset or dedicated ones are engineered from the start for ham use.
Something to think about. Yes? I mean. 20 bucks gets you in. 200 gets you in the champagne room.

I will say that somewhere in my stack of manuals and stuff is the report of my R8500. Measured sensitivity when on the bench and after the alignment was done. And it was more sensitive when I got it back. Something noticed right away.
So. If you consider getting that probably well used radio. Be prepared to expect more that just isn't there.

And what if your R7000 had a tune-up (providing you had the bench equipment to do it or found someone willing)?
A really good sdr radio will blow that dongle in the wind. I own an SDRPlay RSP2. Great wideband performance for the price spent a few years back.
Then I got my R8600. Never went back until recently.
As is typical for RR. I am working on getting DSD+ working with the RSP2. And doing a lot of reading of posts here and other places before asking questions before getting sometimes arrogant responses.

Not saying get it but not saying don't either. If you're dead set and focused on getting the R8500. I can't encourage you or discourage you.
They are not like Collins, National, Hallicrafters rigs. Hope that makes sense at least a little bit.
Don't get blinded by a little free Heliax. An attempt at getting back lost sensitivity to rule the radio out that didn't fix the problem?

The previous owner of the 7000 was a well respected guy in the EMI/radio world out here in Chicagoland and he kept fastidious notes. When he bought the radio he set it up next to his signal generator and measured the sensitivity to compare it to the manual. He had everything even the original purchase receipt from the 80s as well as the service manuals.

That said, it IS a vintage radio now, you right. It has the capacitor whine when everything is cold. I don't think I've turned it off in two weeks LOL. Thanks for the info.

 

[G7RUX]

The 7000 is generally a good radio although they tend to run hot if you run it on mains power. The heat from the PSU tends to accelerate component aging and drift so they really do benefit from a bit of time on the bench. That said, they are a much more traditional design and construction than more modern sets so are extremely packed inside!

 

[ArloG]

Capacitor whine. Interesting. Do I suspect a case of run 'er 'till she pukes? At the very least pull the cover and look inside for bulging and leaky capacitors and pc board discoloring. At the very least. The PSU is a sealed brick. Nothing saying that it might be showing its age inside either.
Can't really say anymore. Good luck.

 

[prcguy]

The previous owner of the 7000 was a well respected guy in the EMI/radio world out here in Chicagoland and he kept fastidious notes. When he bought the radio he set it up next to his signal generator and measured the sensitivity to compare it to the manual. He had everything even the original purchase receipt from the 80s as well as the service manuals.

That said, it IS a vintage radio now, you right. It has the capacitor whine when everything is cold. I don't think I've turned it off in two weeks LOL. Thanks for the info.

Sensitivity is just one of many specs and doesn't mean all that much at HF anyway. Its easy to produce a receiver that measures very well for sensitivity on test equipment but that same receiver can fall to pieces when connected to an antenna. My Baofeng handhelds have some of the most sensitive receivers I've tested at VHF/UHF on a service monitor but they sh*t the bed in actual use with an antenna where a low end Yaesu or Icom handheld can work fine under the same conditions.

Its difficult and expensive to achieve good marks in narrow spaced third order dynamic range or reciprocal mixing dynamic range which is what determines if your receiver is contest grade or a toy.

 

[G7RUX]

Capacitor whine. Interesting. Do I suspect a case of run 'er 'till she pukes? At the very least pull the cover and look inside for bulging and leaky capacitors and pc board discoloring. At the very least. The PSU is a sealed brick. Nothing saying that it might be showing its age inside either.
Can't really say anymore. Good luck.

Ooh, no definitely not. Leaking caps can cause quite a bit of damage to a PCB so it’s best to get them out and sorted before then.

The PSU is not sealed on the 7000, just difficult to get into.

 

[Napalm]

Ooh, no definitely not. Leaking caps can cause quite a bit of damage to a PCB so it’s best to get them out and sorted before then.

The PSU is not sealed on the 7000, just difficult to get into.

oh its in my plan to replace the caps in the PSU board. I just haven't got around to it. I still work 8-10 hours a day.