Indiana Scanner Law Information

[n1das]

And some cops don't like scanners, and don't think we should be listening to them, so keep that in mind.

GTO_04

And that serves as one more reason to listen to them in the first place.

 

[Go-24]

And some cops don't like scanners, and don't think we should be listening to them, so keep that in mind.

GTO_04

And that serves as one more reason to listen to them in the first place.

Doesnt really matter what they like or not, if its legal they dont have a say in the matter; at least not to us consumers/hobbyist. If its really that big of an issue departments should educate the LEOs so that they wont hassle law abiding individuals.

 

[gg1982]

I spoke by telephone with an Indiana State Police official in Indianapolis. He affirmed what the law states; you can have a scanner on your person or in a vehicle as long as you have a ham license.

I asked about officers who might not know the exemptions to the scanner law, and he said most officers want to make certain that they are enforcing the laws correctly before making an arrest. He advised to keep a copy of your ham license in the vehicle (the FCC provides amateur radio licenses in normal-size license and a laminatable wallet-size license when you receive your license grant upon successful completion of the test). And I keep a copy of the Indiana Code 35-44-3-12 along with the license.

I might encounter a grumpy officer at some point, but since I have the license, I shouldn't have anything to worry about if charges are filed. I am prepared to take the case up to the Supreme Court should any issue arise, but Marion County officials have bigger problems to worry about than making an example out of someone who is clearly authorized to use a mobile scanner under Indiana law.

 

[mayfiejb]

Scanner Law Question reply

Is it legal to transport it from one residence to another in your car if you do not have the ham licence, but it is in the trunk with no batteries or power cable?

 

[jerk]

Is it legal to transport it from one residence to another in your car if you do not have the ham licence, but it is in the trunk with no batteries or power cable?

I don't see that as a problem, but not a lawyer. But usually if it's not in reach of you, gun radio, etc, you should be okay.

And I've been stopped before with my radio on the seat and nothing is ever asked. Same thing when traveling and stopping to eat lunch, I bring the radio or scanner with me, and keep the volume low, cops in the same restaurant, and never stopped or asked. That's Kentucky and Indiana.

AL

 

[nitro249]

Some ways to hide your Scanner

1. If you have an Ic-R3 quickly put it on TV mode. That way if he takes it out and looks at it you can say it is a TV.

2. Most scanners these days have master reset code that you can put in and erase everything you have on it. Just say you have to put a password in before you can turn it on.

3. Hook your scanner up under the dash. Use an fm modulator to play it on you car stereo.

Pray to God that you never run into a cop that is smart with electronics.

 

[NightFox]

or better yet, just follow the law. That usually works pretty well.

 

[Go-24]

or better yet, just follow the law. That usually works pretty well.

LOL, I guess that makes too much sense.

 

[nitro249]

or better yet, just follow the law. That usually works pretty well.

That isn’t any fun. But following the law is the right thing to do.

 

[ROY_PICKETT]

Just e-mailed them also... I am sure it won't help any , but i went to school with my representative...Roy

 

[SCPD]

The Statute says, Police Radio so has any high court in Indiana ever ruled what a police radio is?

 

[GTO_04]

The Statute says, Police Radio so has any high court in Indiana ever ruled what a police radio is?

Police radio is defined by the statute. Any radio capable of receiving police frequencies is considered a "police radio." It need not have transmit capability! The term police radio will not be interpreted by any high court unless someone gets arrested/cited and contests the charge in court.

Indiana's scanner law is very restrictive. The minute you take that scanner outside your home or place of business you are in violation of the law, period! Either get your ham license or be prepared to fight it in court, making lawyers very rich! Or surrender your scanner to the cops when you get busted. There are not a lot of options here.

One could always write their state legislator to have the law changed. It was changed in Michigan, and for the better.

GTO_04

 

[mak260]

FWPD upholds Indiana Code 35-44-3-12

The Fort Wayne Police Department was recently asked this question about mobile scanner legallity. You can read the thread on their message board here:

http://www.fwpd.org/discussion/display/319.msg

There's also an interesting question about a licensed amateur radio operator loaning his vehicle to a non-ham.

Fortunately, the FWPD is upholding the amateur radio exemption to the Indiana code. I would assume that this sentiment is echoed by the Allen County Sheriff's Department as well. Even though this should be the universal law-of-the-land for the entire state of Indiana, it is unfortunate that others in compliance with the law in various areas of the state have experienced difficulty with LEOs who apparently do not know that this exemption exists. Even if fines and/or charges are dropped, the hassle shouldn't exist in the first place.

I, for one, am glad that the State of Indiana allows this. Some states, such as New York, have nearly draconian and very ambiguous laws (even for hams) in regard to mobile scanner usage. Many amateur radio transceivers are designed to receive out-of-band frequencies, such as TX 144-148 MHz, RX 108-174 MHz. That would classify that mobile 2 meter transceiver as a "police radio" and call into question the legality under their very confusing laws, even with a valid amateur radio license.

From http://www.afn.org/~afn09444/scanlaws/scanner5.html

New York - (2002 law) - Possession illegal for anyone without permit.
The wording of the last paragraph of the NY law is kinda confusing to me. I'm not exactly sure WHAT it really "exempts." The last paragraph would APPEAR to exempt amateur transceivers, but from what? It doesn't, in plain english, appear to exempt them from having transceivers capable of scanning out-of-band, or even from using scanners. A few re-reads actually seems to say to ME that your mobile ham radio can scan all it wants, but if it scans OUTSIDE of the ham bands ... well then, y'er Bantha poo-doo.

Here's what the last paragraph says to ME, in my own personal interpretation. YOU check it, yourself, and tell me if YOU get the same interpretation from it...

"This section shall not apply to anyone who holds a ham license AND who has a mobile transceiver THAT IS CONNECTED TO an external scanner WHICH RECEIVES ONLY AMATEUR RADIO FREQUENCIES."

Make sense to YOU? Don't feel bad. I've been looking at these laws for years and I can't seem to understand NY's law, either.

Using the current reading, the ham would appear to be exempted from ... absolutely nothing at all. It's the use of that word "AND" so much which contributes to screwing up the interpretation of the whole law.

Perhaps they should replace the words "...and in connection therewith a receiver..." with the words "...and used IN CONJUNCTION THEREWITH an external receiver...". But then, it STILL restricts hams to receiving ONLY those frequencies in the ham bands. Even worded THAT way, it would STILL exempt hams from ... absolutely nothing.

The ONLY thing this law appears to be doing - with regard to amateur radio - is to actually USURP and PRECLUDE the exclusive regulatory domain of the Federal Communications Commission by saying that licensed hams are allowed to use their ham radios in NY. The FCC is the sole regulating entity for communications services, and not the State of New York.

My friend Dave Stark/NF2G, advises that there is past case law (People v. Beatson [1997], (see David Beatson's page here, describing what happened) Suffolk County First District Docket # 44993-97S, Judge Barbara Kahn) where the judge ruled that the law does indeed exempt hams. But to Joe Average Citizen, what the heck is case law, anyway? Joe Average Anyone has no clue what the words "case law" mean, and they have no clue where to find it - and this INCLUDES Joe Average NY POLICE OFFICER! (I've NEVER seen an officer pull a law book out of the trunk which book INCLUDED the relevant case law, too. As well, they usually take FOREVER to update those books; and it is THOSE BOOKS IN THE TRUNK that the officers go by. On top of that, the officers don't have time to play "Judge" on the street. They simply interpret the law that they read LITERALLY.) Regardless of the existence of any case law reference showing a person to be in legal possession of a scanner in NY, as long as people and officers don't know about it, and as long as it's not plainly clear right there in the law books to begin with, then people will still be stopped, they'll still be ticketed, their equipment may still be possibly confiscated, and they'll still have to make a court appearance before the situation is finally clarified, and for the judge to then even notice that case law...and that's if the lawyer was good enough to look for it. That is absolutely rediculous, and a huge inconvenience for everyone for a law which - as I believe it does - is supposed to exempt hams. I, personally, think its current wording tends to give the impression that New York legislators don't really care much about making sure that their laws are clear from the start, and/or about what effects that their own illiteracy can have upon the public.

Thus, in my personal opinion, NY is a very dangerous state for hams. So watch out.

(sigh!) If this ever does prove to be a problem for any hams, here is the FCC's document called P.R. Docket 91-36 (a.k.a., FCC 93-410). In it, the FCC holds that lower-level laws restricting the usage out-of-band-capable transceivers by licensed hams are preeempted by federal law. Should your transceiver ever be confiscated for scanning out-of-band of the ham freqs, use this, and and it should get you out of trouble. I recommend printing out the PDF version from the ARRL (linked to from there), and not my own HTML-ified version (a reading convenience). The PDF version comes straight from the FCC Record. It's likely that this STILL will not prevent a ticket and/or confiscation; but now you have something to take with you to the courtroom, later, at least. (Note that PR 91-36 ONLY applies to the use of OOB-capable amateur transceivers, and not to scanners.)


Final verdict on this law? ...BE CAREFUL. It's ham exemption is not too clear. New York gets a very shameful orange warning flag, here.

In any event, until the law is changed, obtaining an amateur radio technician-level license is not that difficult. It's only $ 14.00 and a 35-question test without a morse code requirement. It's a great hobby, and we're always looking for and encouraging others to become licensed hams.

 

[whitesox4life]

If you are a person who works in the public safety area either full-time or volunteer (firefighter, ems, pd, etc...) you do not need any kind of "special permission" to have a mobile scanner. I was talking to a cousin who is a sheriff's deputy in Delaware Co. and he says that in my case, since I am a volunteer FF, as long as I have my badge and/or my FD ID, I can not be given a ticket by a law enforcement officer in the state of Indiana. Please correct me if my information is wrong.

 

[aaron315]

Ic 35-44-3-12

If you are a person who works in the public safety area either full-time or volunteer (firefighter, ems, pd, etc...) you do not need any kind of "special permission" to have a mobile scanner. I was talking to a cousin who is a sheriff's deputy in Delaware Co. and he says that in my case, since I am a volunteer FF, as long as I have my badge and/or my FD ID, I can not be given a ticket by a law enforcement officer in the state of Indiana. Please correct me if my information is wrong.

Your about 50/50 from what I gather in your post.

Police may have a scanner as they are specifically exempt. EMS / Firefighters are not specifically exempted form the law. Department issued radio, your fine. Scanner in the car, probably going to be a problem unless you have an authorization letter. Department / agency radio in department / company vehicle no problem.

I have known more than one volunteer firefighter who ran into trouble because of scanners in their cars. I know a couple who never have a word said to them, because they use crystal scanners which have only their agency channels in them. I know of one veteran who was able to get a letter from the sheriff in his county.

Basically: if you are not a law enforcement officer, amateur radio operator, in a certified emergency vehicle, or manufacture and sell radios you are asking for trouble and on the wrong side of the law. Of course, I am not a lawyer and my statements here are my own opinion. Proceed at your own peril. I recommend that if you are going to error, error on the safe side of the law.

 

[kb9sxk]

"(10) a person who possesses or uses a police radio during the normal course of the person's lawful business."

If your are a volly......when you have the pager on...

 

[Srobo]

Don't forget members of the media.

 

[mfn002]

Referring to the TX Forum, a kid in Odessa was once harassed by police for having a scanner in his car. The set up a trap by broadcasting a fake radio call, waited for him to show up, and arrested him. Unfortunately for the cops, the father of this kid was a lawyer. He sued the city and filed a complaint with the FCC. The court threw out the law, and the city was fined heavily by the FCC.

Thus: If you get in trouble for having a scanner, you can challenge the law, by citing the TX case as precedent.

 

[kb9sxk]

Referring to the TX Forum, a kid in Odessa was once harassed by police for having a scanner in his car. The set up a trap by broadcasting a fake radio call, waited for him to show up, and arrested him. Unfortunately for the cops, the father of this kid was a lawyer. He sued the city and filed a complaint with the FCC. The court threw out the law, and the city was fined heavily by the FCC.

Thus: If you get in trouble for having a scanner, you can challenge the law, by citing the TX case as precedent.

Ok, well if you say so....

I need case law here or i throw the BS flag.

 

[mcema699]

Mobile Caveat

Be careful going county to county. Your LE may look the other way because of the services you render. The next county over may or may not care about that at all.

I've had cars that look like unmarked in one county get overlooked by officers in that county. I've had cars that don't look like anyones get pulled over and the radios investigated. I've seen private cars plainly marked by membership stickers get overlooked as well. Don't do anything to draw attention and you may not get pulled over.

I once got pulled over because the deputy passing me saw me in a private uniform and came back to pull me over asking why I had a siren in the car.
He went to the front of the car and looked to be sure I was telling him the truth... it was the 4" flat CB spkr from RS. I told him it would have RS on it, not FEDERAL. I didn't have the guts to let him get blasted by "Breaker,breaker". Luckily no scanner or other radios to explain to him that time.

Get a ham license and lower the odds of a confrontation(I did). All that is referenced in countless threads here.

This is not a thread to tell sob stories such as mine so lets not get carried away with them here. I only mentioned some situations for consideration. If you mention yours here it will be up to the moderator to measure fitness of purpose.