Indiana Scanner Law Information

[K9JLR]

I'll be traveling through Indiana to to the Dayton Hamvention in May. I have a ham radio license of course, so I'm just curious if any credible sources have noted any harassment to ham radio operators on the part of law enforcement officers who are ignorant of the clause that exempts ham radio operators. I've heard this has been a problem on a few occasions in NY.

I have a 996 and I don't want to have the hassle of trying to recover equipment that was improperly confiscated in the first place. Am I being paranoid or will tbe display of a ham license end the problem?

 

[WA9JGB]

I'll be traveling through Indiana to to the Dayton Hamvention in May. I have a ham radio license of course, so I'm just curious if any credible sources have noted any harassment to ham radio operators on the part of law enforcement officers who are ignorant of the clause that exempts ham radio operators. I've heard this has been a problem on a few occasions in NY.

I have a 996 and I don't want to have the hassle of trying to recover equipment that was improperly confiscated in the first place. Am I being paranoid or will tbe display of a ham license end the problem?

I have an actual copy of the law. I could mail a copy to you if you like. When are you traveling through?

 

[K9JLR]

I'm coming through in May. I have read the law and I do understand the exemption for hams. I just wanted to be sure that this law was not falling into one of those cases where some LEOs are ignorant of the ham examption and enforce that law being unaware of that clause.

 

[WA9JGB]

Carry a copy of the law with you. I do.

I'm coming through in May. I have read the law and I do understand the exemption for hams. I just wanted to be sure that this law was not falling into one of those cases where some LEOs are ignorant of the ham examption and enforce that law being unaware of that clause.

 

[ind224]

Scanner laws/ Federal protection?

Well,I'd like to think the '86 Communication would work as a defense but alas, not at the state level. Look at the facts.

According to most law folks, the restrictions legally get tighter as you macro down. Feds, State,County, City,Townships.

For example, Indiana, California etc CANNOT legislate any pro marijuana laws because the Feds prohibit it, period. Yet, Indiana offers you a stamp so you don't get the secondary tax penalty read, MONEY.

Now, the State of Indiana says if I have a motor vehicle and I do not use it on an Indiana highway, it DOES NOT NEED TO BE PLATED.

And what do you have to buy before you can plate? Insurance!!! Read, MONEY!!. (Or post the 40K cash bond per vehicle)

BUT, if you live in Marion county, YOU MUST HAVE A PLATE ON ALL vehicles or the zoning folks can come and take you to evironmental court, where they won't care about the privacy fence (that must be 6 feet tall according to the same statute) or that they are on private property. The State MV laws cannot protect you.

The zoning jerk may come by when you are trying to move the tagged vehicles and put you in jail while you try to comply with the envronmental courts order. Yes, it happened. And the judge found me not guilty of disorderly conduct.
Zoning jerk did not show up but left it to IPD to testify. They lost that one but I still had to move my cars yet ANOTHER HOBBY they need to "regulate".

To reiterate,in general, the lower you go the MORE restrictive the laws are and can be legally.

 

[ROY_PICKETT]

Me and my wife got our ham license now..

Roy kc9lkw Mary kc9lks

 

[pappy1]

I have a friend Don that holds a General Ticket and for several years now he has been fighting the local Authorities, He was arrested three times for having a Radio capable of receiving the local police frequencies in his vehicle. The radio was a Kenwood duel bander.

 

[kb9sxk]

I have a friend Don that holds a General Ticket and for several years now he has been fighting the local Authorities, He was arrested three times for having a Radio capable of receiving the local police frequencies in his vehicle. The radio was a Kenwood duel bander.

What city?

 

[NightFox]

Does anyone have a link to the state law that discusses antenna installation in neighborhoods?

thanks

 

[n1das]

Well,I'd like to think the '86 Communication would work as a defense but alas, not at the state level. Look at the facts.

ECPA'86 specifically states "...it shall not be unlawful" to monitor radio transmissions made by police, fire, emergency services, etc. Congress has specifically stated what radio transmissions shall NOT be unlawful to monitor (in an attempt to pacify opponents of ECPA'86 as originally proposed).

How does Indiana get around the Supremacy Clause in the US Constitution? States can't usurp federal authority, especially when there's a direct conflict between federal and state law. I'm referring to where Indiana's law says you can't carry an operating portable scanner on your person, having nothing to do with motor vehicle laws. IOW, Indiana essentially says no scanner listening PERIOD whenever you're outside your home and not in a vehicle, regardless of what you're actually listening to on the scanner. I'm assuming in this example that the listener is not a ham and doesn't qualify for the ham exemption or any other exemptions in the law. It's essentially an outright montoring ban by any other name.

How does Indiana specifically get around the "it shall not be unlawful" clause in ECPA'86?

According to most law folks, the restrictions legally get tighter as you macro down. Feds, State,County, City,Townships.

Yes, but they all are still subject to preemption to the extent that they conflict with laws of higher jurisdiction(s) in question. With Indiana's scanner law, state law is still subject to preemption by federal law(s) to the extent that state law conflicts with federal law(s).

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to be one, so don't take any of this as legal advice. These are my humble opinions ("IMHO") only, so take them with a grain of salt.

 

[n1das]

Does anyone have a link to the state law that discusses antenna installation in neighborhoods?

thanks

Read up on PRB-1 and also get the book "Antenna Zoning for the Radio Amateur" by Fred Hopengarten, K1VR. Both are ARRL publications. If you're a ham and are thinking about putting up ham antennas or a ham tower w/antennas at home, this book is REQUIRED reading. Fred is a lawyer and he is an expert on this particular subject matter.

Good luck.

 

[n1das]

I have a friend Don that holds a General Ticket and for several years now he has been fighting the local Authorities, He was arrested three times for having a Radio capable of receiving the local police frequencies in his vehicle. The radio was a Kenwood duel bander.

Good multi-million dollar lawsuit material in federal court, IMHO. Wasn't he aware of the federal preemption regarding this?

Since he's a ham AND it was his HAM transceiver in question, this matter has already been addresed by a Declaratory Ruling issued by the FCC in 1993. State and local law(s) are entirely preempted by federal law in this case.

The radio in question wasn't a scanner and it was specifically a piece of legit ham equipment. The federal pre-emption specifically applies ONLY to the out-of-ham-band reception capabilities on the ham transceiver in question. It DOESN'T apply to a scanner that might also be in the same vehicle.

It could be argued though that a scanner also counts as ham equipment since there's no FCC requirement in FCC Part 97 rules & regs that a reciever has to be part of the transmitting equipment used (i.e., "transceiver") and there's nothing limiting the number of receivers or type of ham equipment that a ham operator may operate at his (mobile) station. Bottom line is the ham licensee under FCC rules decides what equipment to use for legit ham activities, not the state. I dunno if this issue has ever been tested in the courts yet.

In the narrowest interpretation of the FCC's Declaratory Ruling, the preemption applies ONLY to the out of band reception capabilities in a HAM transciever. That creates a bit of a conundrum for us hams who also want to listen to APCO-25 digital transmissions. Given that there's currently no APCO-25 reception capabilities with the current crop of HAM transceivers on the market, that means we need to listen on a scanner or other radio which has APCO-25 capability.

My solution: I do my listening on APCO-25 mobile and portable equipment instead of scanners. They cover the ham bands by default, so I use them as my ham transceivers. All non-ham frequencies are programmed as RECEIVE-ONLY, i.e, NO TRANSMIT. This equipment IS my HAM equipment. The APCO-25 equipment is type accepted for Part 90 Private Land Mobile Radio services. Since the equipment meets all type acceptance requirements for commercial use, this means it MORE THAN MEETS the requirements for ham use, so using commercial equipment as a HAM transceiver is 100% legit. So now I've got my HAM transciever that also has APCO-25 capability. The federal preemption for hams also applies to this equipment since it's specifically being used as my HAM transceiver. The state also has no authority to decide if the ham equipment used can be a Kenwood Dual-Bander or a Motorola ASTRO XTS5000 digital portable as it now becomes strictly an FCC type acceptance matter, of which the state has no jurisdiction.

I've also been bitten by the APCO-25 bug on amateur radio, and I've got an APCO-25 ham repeater project in the works. I'm gradually phasing out my ham equipment in favor of the good commercial stuff with P25 capability. I'm liking the quality and performance of the commercial stuff better!

 

[NightFox]

Read up on PRB-1 and also get the book "Antenna Zoning for the Radio Amateur" by Fred Hopengarten, K1VR. Both are ARRL publications. If you're a ham and are thinking about putting up ham antennas or a ham tower w/antennas at home, this book is REQUIRED reading. Fred is a lawyer and he is an expert on this particular subject matter.

Good luck.

Thanks for the information.

 

[Viper43]

I looked at that link and it is just exactly what I have posted. I personally think it would be hard to prosucute this becuase of

(b) Subsection (a)(1) and (a)(2) do not apply to: ...(10) a person who possesses or uses a police radio during the normal course of the person's lawful business.

That part of the law is ONLY for news media, your leaving part of it out where it specifies news media. Your also missing the section that applies to having a news media credential issued by the ISP. I am a news photographer and cannot have a scanner without first getting a permit from the ISP or be a licensed ham operator, those are the ONLY two ways you can have a scanner in your vehicle or on your person, unless you are on your own property.

V

 

[K9GTJ]

You know the law could be streched to be overly broad if an officer wanted to be a prick about it. I mean the /\/\otorola business radios we have at work could be programed to pick up (or even transmit) on police frequencies. Technically they are capable of receiving police broadcasts. hhhmmmmm....

 

[fdhy]

Crap. I had planned on taking my 396T in the car with us to the USGP this weekend. At first I was worried about taking it across the border (I'm Canadian). I'm crossing in Michigan, so I shouldn't have any problems there. Now I learn that its illegal to possess a scanner in IN.... Wow. What a crock. Maybe we'll just stay home and watch the race on TSN instead of injecting some of our hard earned money into the IN economy...

 

[Go-24]

Crap. I had planned on taking my 396T in the car with us to the USGP this weekend. At first I was worried about taking it across the border (I'm Canadian). I'm crossing in Michigan, so I shouldn't have any problems there. Now I learn that its illegal to possess a scanner in IN.... Wow. What a crock. Maybe we'll just stay home and watch the race on TSN instead of injecting some of our hard earned money into the IN economy...

I doubt you will have any troubles at the track; thousands of others bring them to the track every year. I wouldnt advise having it on in your car while you drive though - if you were to be pulled over they might confiscate it.

Possibly you can program it with the track channels only - then you wont be tempted

 

[fdhy]

I doubt you will have any troubles at the track; thousands of others bring them to the track every year. I wouldnt advise having it on in your car while you drive though - if you were to be pulled over they might confiscate it.

Possibly you can program it with the track channels only - then you wont be tempted

Good advice. I have really bad luck with the police, at least in my country. I can only imagine how much worse my luck would be in your country with so many more cops around... I think its because I'm young, or maybe I look like a criminal? I don't know. But cops make me nervous even when I have nothing to hide. I think i'll leave the thing at home and rent one of those kangaroo tv things. I hear you can even get Ferrari's TETRA broadcasts with those?

Just an offtopic aside... I have two hobbies that are dear to me, I collect firearms and I'm an electronics geek. I find it hilarious that as a foreigner I can legally CCW my SIG through MI and IN, but they won't let me have a radio. Now that's thinkin'

 

[Viper43]

Well I have never said IN lawmakers were smart....I have said they are the opposite though IN laws are some of the most idiotic I have ever seen, and it's getting worse by the week. PA isn't much better though, they have a fairly new law about "altered vehichles" and special inspections for these altered vehicles. Believe it or not a pickup truck with a 5th wheel hitch would fall under this law! The only way around it would be if the hitch was factory installed!

V

 

[exham]

I sent an enquiry to a friend of mine that is an Indiana Superior Court judge and unfortanately he has not responded. I know his job keeps him extremely busy so I won't hound him about it. Many of us have tried to get official responses from the police, fire and judges with no avail. Maybe there is a reason for this. Maybe the law itself is vague and the interpetition is left up to the officer / judge. Hopefully none of us end up in that situation.

If he does respond, I will let everyone know.

Regards,

Doug

When you have lived awhile, and "been around the block" a few times, so to speak, it will finally dawn on you that the "law" is simply the opinion of the "authority" backed up by a gun... and your belief that the "authority", at that time, has the right to dictate what you can do with your life. Of course, this assumes that you have not commited a real crime such as:

(1) Harmed someone or their property.
(2) Defaulted or defrauded on a contract with someone.

Doug, you are also finding out that the "authorities" feel they have no obligation to you. The truth is they know they are "above" you and are not accountable to you. They will protect and "circle the wagons" should any one of them get "attacked". After all, it is a "fraternity"... isn't it... and you're not included.

The laws are always written with room for "interpretation" for a purpose. Guess who the "interpreters" are.

The "law" is exactly what they need it to be at the moment, and it ALWAYS works in their favor, not yours, should "push come to shove".