Interdepartment Communications

[MrAntiDigital]

So often I read and people discuss the importance of being able to contact various departments through direct radio communications in an emergency.

The need for the fire department to contact the police OR the need for the police to contact the fire department. Or another EMS system.

Does your police department allow the fire department direct radio communications to take place ?

Does your police department allow a private ambulance company responding to medical incidents, including those of violent attacks, direct radio communications ?

Does the police dept on a regular basis contact the fire or ems through direct radio communications to provide further information ?

We recently saw the event in Orlando, Fl where some 100 individuals were shot. A nearby fire station within 300 feet of that incident became the safe haven for many civilians. Yet those firefighters were not allowed to contact the police directly.

Does your police dept ALLOW direct radio communications with its officers responding to incidents the EMS or FD are involved with.

Some places are fortunate to have combined Fire/Police Dispatch Centers allowing a communications to take place across a dispatch room which allows a flow of communications between departments.

But the question is "What Connecticut cities or towns allow the fire department or private EMS to have DIRECT Radio Contact with its police officers ? Please tell us about it.

Thank you.

 

[a417]

Hartford, East Hartford, Manchester, Glastonbury, Wethersfield (**), Cromwell, Newington , Rocky Hill, New Britain, etc.. (that list is a couple of years old, fyi)

Being allowed, and being capable to (due to system programming, infrastructure) are separate and distinct points to be addressed. In the smaller towns, all the police units have to do is switch over to the EMS channel - and they have direct unit to unit contact, wether or not the EMS agencies in the towns can switch on to the police channel is another thing. Many times you get the officer who is just used to "pushing the button to talk to dispatch" and may not choose to spend the time to spin the channel select to find the channel he COULD use to talk to someone, he chooses for the tried and true primary channel the radio spends most of it's time on.

In the smaller towns on that list, when the officers had time and the wherewithal to switch over - sure they did, not every one, not every time, but it happened.

 

[MrAntiDigital]

Thank you.

I understand that they might be equipped to do that BUT "Do they actually communicate among each other".

Do you have any examples of when such radio communications between police/fire, police/EMS might have taken place recently ?

If so then I assume these police departments are more than willing to share day to day radio communications between fire, ems etc

 

[gewecke]

Our city officers can go direct with all of our local agencies, Except for our county sheriff cars because they're on a statewide P25 system and our pd is P25 is on its own repeater. Not the best arrangement, but that's what they chose to do. 73, n9zas

 

[a417]

I need to provide examples of when they have recently? No, I don't have any recent recordings of when they have done it, that's not possible right now.

Rocky Hill PD used to dispatch all medicals on their primary dispatch channel, and then responding units would sign on with their PD dispatcher, until the volume became disruptive to their operations. Some time in the last 5 years they pushed the EMS off onto another channel to allow people to keep their sanity. The RHPD units and responding EMS units used to talk freely, when it was pertinent to the call. RHPD and RHFD would frequently coordinate operations on fire scenes on the FD channel, or on scene channel.

Newington Police department would occasionally switch over to their EMS channel and talk car-to-car with the responding EMS providers when the dispatch center was really busy (and that officer remembered how to do it). NPD would occasionally switch over to the FD dispatch talkgroup and converse, circumventing dispatch entirely.

It's not that the departments are willing to share the communications, it's if the infrastructure supports it, and the officer isn't required to multitask locally. Most of those departments (at one time or another since 2000) had the ability for officers to switch to the EMS / Fire frequency (including Hartford - I distinctly recall conversations with engine 8 multiple times over Med 9 with responding units, albeit a long time ago). The most pressing issue is while they are switching over to a frequency to talk to someone other than dispatch, dispatch might not know WHICH FREQUENCY THEY ARE ON, and if they are needed...it might not be a channel that the dispatch has up in the foreground. For instance , New Britain patrol units would switch over to DATA to run NCIC queries, and occasionally you'd hear a dispatcher hail them on DATA and the unit would have not switched back...and had a status change or cleared a call, leaving them in dispatch-limbo. So, you have to ask yourself, do you want police units switching to an alternate channel to go direct car-to-car with an EMS unit frequently? They can usually only carry one radio at a time, might not be the best time to go channel surfing.

 

[zuzuski]

Policy and procedure should dictate - #1 there are times when you DONT WANT FD/ EMS jumping onto the police channel for obvious reasons. #2 Span of control. You rally add more people to the single crowded channel, talking about a dozen different tasks, you are asking for trouble..

Thus, the reason for INTEROP channels - you dont need anything special for them! They already exist everywhere - just people are too lazy to use them or too lazy to open the 1/2 page instructions on how to use them.

 

[MrAntiDigital]

I can honestly say, "I have NEVER heard any fire or EMS talking over a police radio frequency". Generally during most of my waking hours, I am somewhere in the state with my scanner tuned into local police, fire, ems. That is why I asked such a question. I've just NEVER heard it happen. And over those years, I went to many large scale operations involving multi agencies, as a "buff". It just never seemed to take place.

One incident I remember took place on the Bridgeport/Fairfield town lines. It was a commuter train crash with dozens of injuries. It involved fire departments from both Bpt and FFld, along with other surrounding depts. As well as Bpt/Ffld and Amtrack Police. EMS from both AMR, Trumbull, Stratford. Even representatives from the Federal government. Everybody operated on their own channels.

Before that it was a building collapse killing 29 construction workers.

Throughout the state we of course had the Sandy Hook School shootings. There was a mass shooting at the Lotto Headquarters in Newington. I just don't recall ever hearing of any inter department communications taking place.

At one time I was assigned the duty of training members on a radio system for the fire dept. The portable radios contained sixteen channels that we could switch to. It consisted of Public Works, Gas/Electric Utilities, Primary EMS, Coast Guard etc. I made it a point to contact each one of those departments that we were able to talk to. NOT ONE, I repeat - NOT One, would allow the fire dept to talk on their frequency, regardless of what was going on or any amount of training those firefighters would receive.

Maybe the equipment is there but within the last two years, what departments are able to do direct inter department radio communications on a regular basis. Particularly Police/Fire/EMS throughout Connecticut.

I do remember when New Haven FD was able to transmit on Med 10 (?) but I don't believe that happens today.

 

[gewecke]

It happens here occasionally. I've heard it many times. We call this interoperability. :wink: 73, n9zas

 

[a417]

Rocky Hill PD did it exclusively for >20 years, stopping only recently. 2500 > calls a year on that channel?

 

[dgruber]

In Our radio's we have Fire and are local EMS Agency programmed in to our radio's but fire is in a different zone. Also we have channels in MN that all radios are programmed with so EMS, Fire and Police can go to if needed.

 

[MrAntiDigital]

It happens here occasionally. I've heard it many times. We call this interoperability. :wink: 73, n9zas

That is correct. The term is interoperability and it seems to be the hot item going around today. Those that have capabilities of its use just don't communicate between the various emergency services, particularly the police.

I did at one time work p/t as a 911 dispatcher in a small town in Eastern, Ct. There was a radio channel called "Town Wide". It was primarily used by the public works and the town ems. The fire, police, and ems would sometimes communicate on that UHF channel. But that was the limit to interoperability that I know of.

 

[imonitorit]

There are two features we have but are rarely used. There is PATCH and SIMULSELECT. PATCH feeds what you (in dispatch) are receiving on one frequency and transmits it on another frequency. SIMULSELECT takes what you (dispatch) transmit and put it out on another frequency. Both can be used, as an example for the police and fire departments to talk directly with each other without having to change channels. One major drawback is the tendency to cut each other off because of not allowing a second or two before transmitting after someone else has.


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[byndhlptom]

Interoperability

just a comment......

Some agencies have trouble getting every one to LISTEN on the correct channel.

Giving someone the authority to go "off channel" means that they may not hear traffic for them on "their" assigned channel. Especially if the have different dispatch centers for PD and FIRE/EMS (PD dispatcher may not know that one of his units is communicating with the Fire dispatcher) or are large enough to have assigned dispatchers for the different groups. The Fire dispatcher may not know what traffic is on PD Central....

As has been stated, there are times when channel "hopping" can be a problem, not a solution.

Also, Incident command protocols pretty much require different sections/groups to be on different channels as an incident gets bigger.

Interoperability is not as simple as having everyone on the same channel.

&.02.

 

[MrAntiDigital]

There are two features we have but are rarely used. There is PATCH and SIMULSELECT. PATCH feeds what you (in dispatch) are receiving on one frequency and transmits it on another frequency. SIMULSELECT takes what you (dispatch) transmit and put it out on another frequency. Both can be used, as an example for the police and fire departments to talk directly with each other without having to change channels. One major drawback is the tendency to cut each other off because of not allowing a second or two before transmitting after someone else has.


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Thank you "imonitorit" for that info. I remember doing such an operation myself while fire dispatching over two different frequencies.

Today we get so wrapped up in this interoperability thing that we forget about the very basic, simplest ways of doing things.

I appreciate your input.

 

[MFCJR]

Last night a strong storm moved through Newington taking down trees and branches that were blocking roads. I heard a police officer talking on the Highway Department channel directing a Highway Department worker on what streets he needed to take the bucket loader to.

 

[zuzuski]

I can honestly say, "I have NEVER heard any fire or EMS talking over a police radio frequency". .

Old Saybrook EMS

 

[mkt853]

Old Saybrook EMS

Greenwich as well AFAIK as EMS and police are dispatched on the police channel which is now encrypted.