BCD436HP/BCD536HP: Is it necessary to load all Trunk Frequencies/Channels

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ka7emt

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Knowing that the BCD436HP trunked system data comes from the Radio Reference database and that RR identifies the control channels... Does the scanner scan all the Frequencies/Channels for a site? Is it necessary to have all the Frequencies/Channels for a site loaded and scanned? I am wondering if I can speed up scanning of multiple sites and trunked systems if I do not load or Avoid the non-control frequencies.

Thank you for your responses.
 

tvengr

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Which systems do you want to monitor? For P25 trunked systems, you only need to enter the control channel capable frequencies for a site. All of the frequency information is carried on the control channel. It can be different for other types of systems.
 

ka7emt

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All P25. That's what I thought. But.... When I try to AVoid or Remove the other frequencies, it will not let me. Strange.
 
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hiegtx

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Knowing that the BCD436HP trunked system data comes from the Radio Reference database and that RR identifies the control channels... Does the scanner scan all the Frequencies/Channels for a site? Is it necessary to have all the Frequencies/Channels for a site loaded and scanned? I am wondering if I can speed up scanning of multiple sites and trunked systems if I do not load or Avoid the non-control frequencies.

Thank you for your responses.
Removing the "extra" frequencies will not materially affect your scan speed. For the Uniden scanners, the radio will use the first frequency where it can receive & decode the control channel information. Once an active transmission is completed, on the site where that frequency was used, the scanner will move on to the next site, not check other frequencies in that specific site. Those members who had the older 396T series scanners, had to create a separate system for each trunked system site. The "T" series did not have multi site capability. That arrived with later Uniden models. (The 996T, released later than the 396T, did have multi-site ability, as have all subsequent trunking scanners.)

The GRE/Whistler scanners such as the PSR500 & it's siblings, including the Whistler models WS1040 & WS1065, can be programmed to check all of the frequencies in a site for activity. However, that is not an option for Uniden models. For those specific Whistler models, with a limited memory capacity, using control channel frequencies only helps free up space for other items.

For the Uniden database scanners, like the x36HP & SDS series, whether you have all of the site frequencies, or only the control channels does, not really matter. The much larger memory capacity for Favorites lists, in most cases, removes the need to economize your entries. If you were scanning using your location, range, & the main database, all of the systems in the Sentinel database have all of the frequencies as shown on the system's database page in the RR database you see online. Sentinels database does not contain anything that 'flags' control channels.

However, for the SDS series scanners, the scan speed is definitely impacted by multiple sites on the same system. It takes up to about a half second for the scanner to acquire & decode the control channel data. So, in a large regional or statewide system, if you have multiple sites programmed, it's going to at least attempt to check each for activity. Removing (or avoiding) the out of range sites, or those that do not carry the radio traffic you are interested in, will speed up your scanning.

That note, on the SDS series scanners, was from the late Paul Opitz, "UPMan", during posts shortly after these scanners were introduced. I don't recall a similar, specific, note for the x36HP or other DMA scanners, but I suspect that there might be a scan time penalty, though possibly small, for the other models.

Just note, though, that for L3-Harris P25 systems, any of the frequencies for a given site can be used as a control channel. These systems tend to rotate the frequency used for control among the ones assigned for that site.
 

wtp

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it is the old story.
the more you try to listen to, the less you hear.
i only put one trunked system in a radio at a time, that is how to hear more.
i also say "if you want to hear more, get more radios".
each trunked system you have takes 2 seconds for housekeeping to check each system to see what is going on.
so if you just have 3 systems in you waste 4 seconds on just one passthrough on the radio.
so in one minute you waste 40 seconds on other systems.
 

Chris0516

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it is the old story.
the more you try to listen to, the less you hear.
i only put one trunked system in a radio at a time, that is how to hear more.
i also say "if you want to hear more, get more radios".
each trunked system you have takes 2 seconds for housekeeping to check each system to see what is going on.
so if you just have 3 systems in you waste 4 seconds on just one passthrough on the radio.
so in one minute you waste 40 seconds on other systems.
If the other systems are not set to be avoided.
 

ofd8001

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It is a "time waster" to attempt to monitor sites too far away to receive.

For those sites that are close enough to receive, it is reasonable to program all frequencies. Most of the reasons were explained by Hiegtx. One other: the database isn't perfect - a different frequency could be pressed into use as a control channel, though rare.

I program all frequencies and have not noticed diminished performance.
 

tvengr

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I program all frequencies and have not noticed diminished performance.
For scanners suffering from simulcast distortion, that can be detrimental. If a scanner loses lock on the control channel, it does not need to search through all of the voice frequencies to find the control channel again if only the control channel capable frequencies are programmed. That can also be true if you lose the control channel due to poor signal strength.
 

ofd8001

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For scanners suffering from simulcast distortion, that can be detrimental. If a scanner loses lock on the control channel, it does not need to search through all of the voice frequencies to find the control channel again if only the control channel capable frequencies are programmed.

But isn't simulcast distortion where you are getting signals from multiple sites and the scanner is having a problem sorting them out?

If the scan speed is 50-100 frequencies per second, it should take a fraction of a second to cover all associated with a site. I don't think there are many sites that have a large number of frequencies.

I'm sure Uniden had their reasons why the include all frequencies in their database rather than just the primary/alternate control channel.
 

hiegtx

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For scanners suffering from simulcast distortion, that can be detrimental. If a scanner loses lock on the control channel, it does not need to search through all of the voice frequencies to find the control channel again if only the control channel capable frequencies are programmed. That can also be true if you lose the control channel due to poor signal strength.
The late UPMan, in discussing the (then new) 396T mentioned that if you stacked multiple frequencies in a site (in other words, including the frequencies from other sites in a system), that the scanner would not check the other frequencies; once it had found an active control channel. It would return to that same frequency the next time that system was scanned. I suspect that if you lost signal on the control it was using, it would move on to the next site or system programmed, but when it got back to the original site, then it possibly would check for signals on the other entered frequencies.

In theory, there should not be duplication of control (or any) channel frequencies in range of the site being programmed. But if you were also using site frequencies from another area, particularly on a statewide or large regional system, than you possibly could encounter an issue. Simulcast issues are encountered from multiple transmit sub-sites all transmitting using the same frequency, If the scanner jumped to a frequency used as control on a different site (or system), you could possibly miss the radio traffic that you ere expecting to hear, as well as hearing some unrelated conversations.

But isn't simulcast distortion where you are getting signals from multiple sites and the scanner is having a problem sorting them out?

If the scan speed is 50-100 frequencies per second, it should take a fraction of a second to cover all associated with a site. I don't think there are many sites that have a large number of frequencies.

I'm sure Uniden had their reasons why the include all frequencies in their database rather than just the primary/alternate control channel.
For the Uniden database scanners, and presumably the GRE/Whister database models, you're are not dealing with the memory limitations of the PSR500/PSR600, and it's RadioShack and Whistler descendants. With a limitation of ~1850 objects, you need to economize frequency entries where possible, especially on larger systems. For the Uniden models, having all the frequencies is insurance if the control channel changes to a different designated control than was originally in the database. Of course, for the L3-Harris P25 systems, any site frequency can be used as a control. A number of these systems rotate the control much more often than the Motorola systems.
 
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