Is it time to unload mobiles & repeaters?

[Daniel_Boone]

GMRS uses FM Narrow band and Amateur Radio uses FM wide band.
Do you know what the difference is.
It is the amount of space that the signal occupies and it also is what gives FM - stereo - it's distinct sound because it does not clip the audio the way that the narrow band does.

GMRS doesn't really require you to give your call sign every 10 minutes - because you are paying to use the frequency and repeater.

Amateur radio does require you to give your call sign every 10 minutes and at the end of transmissions.

At the same time, you cannot use amateur radio for business purposes - hence GMRS would be better for anyone that has been using it for their own personal use.

The down side is the Land Mobile Radio Service has taken a hit ever since cell phones came out and became cheap, due to the fact that you can rent a phone cheaper then a repeater.
And, you get better coverage from a cell phone then from one individual repeater.

Repeaters are going the way of the DoDo bird - into extinction.
It is great if you have a large company such as a coal mining operation, where you have base and mobile vehicles and you wish to talk to people at will - and do not want to pay the cell phone bill for 100 cell phones. The investment there is in the radios and the repeaters and the license to operate those radios and repeaters.

 

[hockeyshrink]

Kind readers of my thread, please disregard Daniel_Boone's post. I don't know if this person is trolling for fun or just doesn't have a clue, but his posts continue to contain erroneous, misleading, and irrelevant information. Believe his statements and follow his advice at your own peril.

To the others who posted, thanks for responding to my thread! I appreciate your feedback!

Hockeyshrink, the "OP"

NB: Mods, we're done here.

 

[Token]

GMRS uses FM Narrow band and Amateur Radio uses FM wide band.
Do you know what the difference is.
It is the amount of space that the signal occupies and it also is what gives FM - stereo - it's distinct sound because it does not clip the audio the way that the narrow band does.

Actually, the definition of Narrow Band FM and Wide Band FM is a bit more complex than that. However, do we really want to get into a discussion of deviation ratio or modulation index and how they apply? Suffice to say that in general wide band FM (WBFM or WFM) is wider than 15 kHz (some will say 12 kHz). Narrow band FM (NBFM or NFM) is less than 15 kHz wide (again, some will say this number is 12 kHz), often 6 kHz or a little less for normal voice communications.

Amateur Radio can use either WFM (up to 100 kHz F8E) or NBFM, depending on the band and application, above 30 MHz the FM type is the operators choice, not a regulatory requirement. The majority of Amateur Radio voice applications use NBFM, not WFM. This is the modulation found on your typical 6 meter, 2 meter, 70 centimeter repeater. On HF frequencies were phone is allowed (except 60M) ham FM must be limited to the bandwidth of an equivalent communications quality AM signal, and that would make it decidedly NBFM. WFM is, however, used for things like ATV on the ham bands above 30 MHz.

These requirements can be found in FCC Part 97.305 and 97.307. As a VE I would expect you to be familiar with this, so I assume you are making such erroneous statements as a test to us, the unwashed masses.

T!

(edit) Sorry hockeyshrink, I was typing my response while you were posting your last above.

 

[hockeyshrink]

right on

...
These requirements can be found in FCC Part 97.305 and 97.307. As a VE I would expect you to be familiar with this, so I assume you are making such erroneous statements as a test to us, the unwashed masses.

T!

(edit) Sorry hockeyshrink, I was typing my response while you were posting your last above.

no sweat, bro...I didn't have the energy to even begin to go there with him today.

 

[gewecke]

GMRS uses FM Narrow band and Amateur Radio uses FM wide band.
Do you know what the difference is.
It is the amount of space that the signal occupies and it also is what gives FM - stereo - it's distinct sound because it does not clip the audio the way that the narrow band does.

GMRS doesn't really require you to give your call sign every 10 minutes - because you are paying to use the frequency and repeater.

Amateur radio does require you to give your call sign every 10 minutes and at the end of transmissions.

At the same time, you cannot use amateur radio for business purposes - hence GMRS would be better for anyone that has been using it for their own personal use.

The down side is the Land Mobile Radio Service has taken a hit ever since cell phones came out and became cheap, due to the fact that you can rent a phone cheaper then a repeater.
And, you get better coverage from a cell phone then from one individual repeater.

Repeaters are going the way of the DoDo bird - into extinction.
It is great if you have a large company such as a coal mining operation, where you have base and mobile vehicles and you wish to talk to people at will - and do not want to pay the cell phone bill for 100 cell phones. The investment there is in the radios and the repeaters and the license to operate those radios and repeaters.

Wtf??? :lol::lol:


73,
n9zas

 

[zz0468]

GMRS uses FM Narrow band and Amateur Radio uses FM wide band.
Do you know what the difference is.

I am about 99% convinced that Daniel Boone is a troll, intentionally spitting out bad information to see who he can rile up. He's now calling himself an electrical engineer on his profile page.

It's not possible to be THAT wrong, so many times, without it being intentional... is it?

 

[hockeyshrink]

Iggy

I am about 99% convinced that Daniel Boone is a troll, intentionally spitting out bad information to see who he can rile up. He's now calling himself an electrical engineer on his profile page.

It's not possible to be THAT wrong, so many times, without it being intentional... is it?

Daniel_Boone is now IGNORED :lol:

 

[Mike_G_D]

I am about 99% convinced that Daniel Boone is a troll, intentionally spitting out bad information to see who he can rile up. He's now calling himself an electrical engineer on his profile page.

It's not possible to be THAT wrong, so many times, without it being intentional... is it?

Hmm...well, exceptionally bad education or exceptionally "good" drugs?! (and/or bad drugs, too, I suppose - gotta watch those "impurities" from the "StreetMart Specials"!)

-Mike

 

[Mike_G_D]

GMRS uses FM Narrow band and Amateur Radio uses FM wide band.
Do you know what the difference is.
It is the amount of space that the signal occupies and it also is what gives FM - stereo - it's distinct sound because it does not clip the audio the way that the narrow band does.

GMRS doesn't really require you to give your call sign every 10 minutes - because you are paying to use the frequency and repeater.

Amateur radio does require you to give your call sign every 10 minutes and at the end of transmissions.

At the same time, you cannot use amateur radio for business purposes - hence GMRS would be better for anyone that has been using it for their own personal use.

The down side is the Land Mobile Radio Service has taken a hit ever since cell phones came out and became cheap, due to the fact that you can rent a phone cheaper then a repeater.
And, you get better coverage from a cell phone then from one individual repeater.

Repeaters are going the way of the DoDo bird - into extinction.
It is great if you have a large company such as a coal mining operation, where you have base and mobile vehicles and you wish to talk to people at will - and do not want to pay the cell phone bill for 100 cell phones. The investment there is in the radios and the repeaters and the license to operate those radios and repeaters.

...and remember - Framostats are REQUIRED on the ham bands but on GMRS and the LMR bands you need a Flux Capacitor but ONLY LMR requires the Neutron Flow Polarity to be REVERSED!

-Couldn't Resist

 

[b7spectra]

Wait! LMR requires the Neutron Flow Polarity to be REVERSED? I guess that explains all the mutants in my back yard! I've been INVERTING the polarity, not REVERSING!

 

[Quickcall]

I am about 99% convinced that Daniel Boone is a troll, intentionally spitting out bad information to see who he can rile up. He's now calling himself an electrical engineer on his profile page.

It's not possible to be THAT wrong, so many times, without it being intentional... is it?

Oh good, at least im not the only one that was thinking that!

 

[lbfd09]

Actually, the definition of Narrow Band FM and Wide Band FM is a bit more complex than that. However, do we really want to get into a discussion of deviation ratio or modulation index and how they apply? Suffice to say that in general wide band FM (WBFM or WFM) is wider than 15 kHz (some will say 12 kHz). Narrow band FM (NBFM or NFM) is less than 15 kHz wide (again, some will say this number is 12 kHz), often 6 kHz or a little less for normal voice communications.

.... .... ....

I think for the topic of discussion on wide band FM and narrow band FM, most are using "Wide Band FM" to mean the currently used or the pre-mandated standard. Narrow Band FM is refereed to as the currently mandated standard that is due to be in place with in the next year or so. Super Narrow Band FM is what's used with the 6.25 channel splits that are yet to be mandated. At least that's the way we use the terms out west here. Yes, not completely technically correct, but works for discussion purposes.

This of course is without mention of any pioneering named trolls mentioned in any of the above posts - I cannot improve upon those well stated posts.

 

[pjtnascar]

"If you read part 97 of the FCC code, it is illegal to modify a radio to operate it on the amateur bands."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statements such as this should be moderated, challenged, and debunked before some impressionable newbie sees it and believes it. It's pure baloney and most of us realize that, but you can do a lot of damage by saying such wild and crazy things. Fact is that a ham is free pretty much to do anything he wants as far as building a receiver, transmitter, or transceiver and then putting it on the air where he's licensed to operate. Some of the stuff that appears on this website makes me gag when I see it.

I have to agree here. I read lots of posts here saying one cannot modify equipment for ham radio. I also thought part of being a ham involved constructing and modifying equipment for use on the air. The other stuff that kind of annoys me is when ham operators knock CBers or "school" newbies on what to buy. So many threads start out as genuine questions, but end up as attacks or criticisms. CB radio, or any other non-licensed personal use radios are the gateway to ham operation. I started in CB in 1996 or so and quickly wanted to get a ham ticket. Upon investigating and talking to hams, I believed many to be arrogant and stuck up people that made me feel like crap for two reasons:

1. I was a CBer, chicken bander, uneducated redneck, etc.
2. I would never be worthy because I couldn't afford the fancy gear or put up huge towers with beam antennas.

I put off getting the license because I felt it was an elite group of old grumpy men that I didn't want to be a part of. Now that I am older, I realize those people were jerks and were giving hams a bad name. I passed my tech exam Monday and I intend to enjoy the hobby as best as my time and budget will allow. It is a pity though that some people (possibly hams?) still do the same old crap and drive away people with a genuine interest in a hobby. It is there desire to appear to know it all that confuses, irritates and frustrates people new to the hobby just looking for advice from people that share a similar interest.

My advice to those types-HBO-Help a Brother Out! Answer the questions with a real answer, not a smarmy, wisecrack remark about how it's illegal to talk skip on 11M or get a ham license if you want to DX!

There's my two cent rant!

 

[hockeyshrink]

I have to agree here. I read lots of posts here saying one cannot modify equipment for ham radio. I also thought part of being a ham involved constructing and modifying equipment for use on the air. The other stuff that kind of annoys me is when ham operators knock CBers or "school" newbies on what to buy. So many threads start out as genuine questions, but end up as attacks or criticisms. CB radio, or any other non-licensed personal use radios are the gateway to ham operation. I started in CB in 1996 or so and quickly wanted to get a ham ticket. Upon investigating and talking to hams, I believed many to be arrogant and stuck up people that made me feel like crap for two reasons:

1. I was a CBer, chicken bander, uneducated redneck, etc.
2. I would never be worthy because I couldn't afford the fancy gear or put up huge towers with beam antennas.

I put off getting the license because I felt it was an elite group of old grumpy men that I didn't want to be a part of. Now that I am older, I realize those people were jerks and were giving hams a bad name. I passed my tech exam Monday and I intend to enjoy the hobby as best as my time and budget will allow. It is a pity though that some people (possibly hams?) still do the same old crap and drive away people with a genuine interest in a hobby. It is there desire to appear to know it all that confuses, irritates and frustrates people new to the hobby just looking for advice from people that share a similar interest.

My advice to those types-HBO-Help a Brother Out! Answer the questions with a real answer, not a smarmy, wisecrack remark about how it's illegal to talk skip on 11M or get a ham license if you want to DX!

There's my two cent rant!

Nice rant...totally out of place as this thread has nothing to do with cb or ham radio, but it is a fine rant.

PS: Welcome to the hobby!

 

[pjtnascar]

Sorry it's off-topic

I know it's a bit out of place, but it happened to be the thread that finally ticked me off with all of the bull. Seems certain members know everything about every type of radio service. Plus, most of us are interested in various types of RF communications, so I figured what the heck!

 

[Token]

I think for the topic of discussion on wide band FM and narrow band FM, most are using "Wide Band FM" to mean the currently used or the pre-mandated standard. Narrow Band FM is refereed to as the currently mandated standard that is due to be in place with in the next year or so. Super Narrow Band FM is what's used with the 6.25 channel splits that are yet to be mandated. At least that's the way we use the terms out west here. Yes, not completely technically correct, but works for discussion purposes.

This of course is without mention of any pioneering named trolls mentioned in any of the above posts - I cannot improve upon those well stated posts.

Yes, when you talk about the channelization then what you have described is also the most current usage around here where I am. However, DB was specifically discussing the width of the signal, the amount of spectrum it takes up, and claiming that most ham radio is WFM. And in that case the vast majority of ham FM voice communications are not WFM, but are rather NFM. That was the point of what I said.

T!

 

[burner50]

Daniel_Boone has been escorted from the premises .



Lets get back on topic now.

 

[roadranger]

After all that...

...When I finally apply/purchase for a GMRS liscense, will I be ablre to use the simplex channels, or will I be better off joining a group/club with repeaters? Thanks in advance, David.

 

[gewecke]

...When I finally apply/purchase for a GMRS liscense, will I be ablre to use the simplex channels, or will I be better off joining a group/club with repeaters? Thanks in advance, David.

Dave you will be able to do both,once you're licensed. Joining a repeater club or operating simplex really depends on your needs? How far do you need to be able to talk, mobile to mobile, base to mobile,etc.
I personally prefer simplex.


73,
n9zas

 

[roadranger]

Dave you will be able to do both,once you're licensed. Joining a repeater club or operating simplex really depends on your needs? How far do you need to be able to talk, mobile to mobile, base to mobile,etc.
I personally prefer simplex.


73,
n9zas

Being the resourceful Ham that I am, I have loads of access to repeaters. Yet I want to expand my usefulness to other places. I'd like to get the family involved. I still want to get my GMRS liscense, so I just wanted to know if I needed to be part of a repeater group to make that difference, or can I do just as much good without the repeaters? Distance isn't really a factor.