Itinerant License Question

[cpg178]

When I filed for mine, which was just granted a couple of weeks ago, I used the Wireless Infrastructure Association since I was applying for fixed location channels as well. They definitely helped me with my eligibility statement etc. I also made sure to have my trade name used in the application registered with my state and I made sure to have an EIN from the IRS. I also set up a FRN for my business because I want the business to be separate from my personal licenses. Maybe this is not all necessary, but I’d heard about hams having a hard time getting licenses, especially for itinerates, when using their personal FRN. I guess some people are applying for commercial licenses just to have some private channels to play with, and not for any actual commercial purposes… In the words of The Offspring “You Gotta Keep ‘Em Separated”…

-B

Thanks, this is what I was attempting to do. I will look into that WIA

 

[BMDaug]

I wasn't assuming anything, I was making a general statement. So you're assuming that I'm assuming, when in fact I was just making a factual statement. And yeah, "chatting with buddies" is not a valid reason for obtaining an IG license. That's what GMRS or ham is for.

BINGO!!!!!! If you have a trade name, and are operating a business and provide the FCC with a proper and acceptable eligibility statement, they will grant you a license. Otherwise, you aren’t a commercial radio operator so you don’t get a commercial license. It’s pretty simple logic really.

WIA cost me some money, but it was worth it given the outcome. I now have a UHF pair and two VHF fixed location channels and a VHF and UHF itinerate. I also have a website, trade name, EIN, business phone, and business email. I licensed my fixed location channels MO6 so I can rent out my fleet, though my itinerate is just for internal business purposes only.

-B

 

[cpg178]

BINGO!!!!!! If you have a trade name, and are operating a business and provide the FCC with a proper and acceptable eligibility statement, they will grant you a license. Otherwise, you aren’t a commercial radio operator so you don’t get a commercial license. It’s pretty simple logic really.

WIA cost me some money, but it was worth it given the outcome. I now have a UHF pair and two VHF fixed location channels and a VHF and UHF itinerate. I also have a website, trade name, EIN, business phone, and business email. I licensed my fixed location channels MO6 so I can rent out my fleet, though my itinerate is just for internal business purposes only.

-B

I have everything you said above, I just didnt go through a coordinator as it was not needed for itinerant, and I like to do things myself rather than pay money to fill out a form. I already spent the 200 on this failed attempt, so I am just gonna hang this "project" up on the hook for now, maybe down the road when I have some space I can get a repeater setup and I will try it again.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I have everything you said above, I just didnt go through a coordinator as it was not needed for itinerant, and I like to do things myself rather than pay money to fill out a form. I already spent the 200 on this failed attempt, so I am just gonna hang this "project" up on the hook for now, maybe down the road when I have some space I can get a repeater setup and I will try it again.

Did you figure out why they rejected it? I am trying to make sure mine goes through.

 

[GTR8000]

Did you figure out why they rejected it? I am trying to make sure mine goes through.

Because it wasn't a valid application. Read the attached return letter.

ULS Application - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional - 0010082008 - KNUCKLEHEAD CODE AND DESIGN LLC - Administration

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah, you gotta request itinerant frequencies only.
Also, asking for an itinerant license and requesting a "fixed base" at the same time sort of cancels each other out. A fixed base is not an itinerant station.

Easy fix, if you wanted to.
Refile with itinerant frequencies only.
Drop the FB's.

 

[BMDaug]

Ok… a couple of issues right off the bat that I see are that if you want a state wide itinerate, then you need to check YES on form 601D #23 regarding requiring coordination with Canada. PA is partially inside line A. Also, isn’t having a fixed location itinerate a paradox? If you only want to cover 30km, you don’t need an itinerate… a fixed location license is 50km from location one. The application doesn’t really make sense to me after having a look see.

I get doing things yourself because you don’t want to pay someone, but if you are unable to understand how to do it right, what’s the point? It won’t save you money and you won’t accomplish what you are needing to accomplish.

-B

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

This application appears salvageable by

1) Requesting S, or N as area of operations rather than P. Regarding Canada border, I thought that was a routine restriction placed on itinerant licenses. Sched D line 23 addresses that. Sched H line 1 apparently requires a description of temporary time and place.
Example:

90.35 - LICENSEE IS ENGAGED IN INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY CONSULTING WORK WITH EMPLOYEES AT VARIOUS LOCATIONS FOR VARYING PERIODS OF TIME. RADIOS WILL BE USED TO COORDINATE ACTIVITIES.

2) Remove offending non itinerant frequencies.

3) Regarding FBI stations. I think this is legitimate as I have seen in other licenses.
Example:

FB2I	Mobile Relay - Itinerant

Correct me if I am wrong.

I am curious exactly the fees charged for the license and was any of it based on the quantity of frequencies?

 

[BMDaug]

This application appears salvageable by

1) Requesting S, or N as area of operations rather than P. Regarding Canada border, I thought that was a routine restriction placed on itinerant licenses. Sched D line 23 addresses that. Sched H line 1 apparently requires a description of temporary time and place.
Example:

90.35 - LICENSEE IS ENGAGED IN INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY CONSULTING WORK WITH EMPLOYEES AT VARIOUS LOCATIONS FOR VARYING PERIODS OF TIME. RADIOS WILL BE USED TO COORDINATE ACTIVITIES.

2) Remove offending non itinerant frequencies.

3) Regarding FBI stations. I think this is legitimate as I have seen in other licenses.
Example:

FB2I	Mobile Relay - Itinerant

Correct me if I am wrong.

I am curious exactly the fees charged for the license and was any of it based on the quantity of frequencies?

As far as I know, it’s not based on the number of requested frequencies. WIA encouraged me to add a couple of additional channels based on my described use and it was not an additional charge.

FB2I would likely work, but FB is a station at a specified site so appending I doesn’t seem to fall within the definition of itinerate…

If it were my application, I’d still put Y on schedule D 23… also, I was under the impression that you didn’t list a coverage area by radius for itinerates. I thought they were coordinated at the state level.

Lastly, the itinerate, by definition means moving around. My application lists no location for MOI… it’s valid for the whole state at any time, but having fixed location channels, I only use my itinerates when I’m outside of my 50km fixed location coverage area.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

As far as I know, it’s not based on the number of requested frequencies. WIA encouraged me to add a couple of additional channels based on my described use and it was not an additional charge.

FB2I would likely work, but FB is a station at a specified site so appending I doesn’t seem to fall within the definition of itinerate…

If it were my application, I’d still put Y on schedule D 23… also, I was under the impression that you didn’t list a coverage area by radius for itinerates. I thought they were coordinated at the state level.

Lastly, the itinerate, by definition means moving around. My application lists no location for MOI… it’s valid for the whole state at any time, but having fixed location channels, I only use my itinerates when I’m outside of my 50km fixed location coverage area.

Appending "I" to any station class, FB, MO etc makes it an itinerant station. There is no conflict in having an FBI or FB2I on the license. If one were to deploy an itinerant operation, say at a temporary entertainment venue, they may have legitimate need for such station class to support MOI stations.

 

[BMDaug]

Appending "I" to any station class, FB, MO etc makes it an itinerant station. There is no conflict in having an FBI or FB2I on the license. If one were to deploy an itinerant operation, say at a temporary entertainment venue, they may have legitimate need for such station class to support MOI stations.

Lol this is why I paid for a coordination service!

So, honest question, why would you license itinerate for a fixed location like an entertainment venue, even if it was temporary? Would this be for an event specific license license for a shorter period of time? It seems like you would just license non itinerate channels… or if it moved around to several venues, wouldn’t it be FB2I? I’m not arguing, I’m trying to learn! I honestly don’t know. My license is MO6 for my fixed location, so I can rent my radios to anyone inside my coverage area, but my itinerate is MOI so it’s for internal use only.

-B

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Lol this is why I paid for a coordination service!

So, honest question, why would you license itinerate for a fixed location like an entertainment venue, even if it was temporary? Would this be for an event specific license license for a shorter period of time? It seems like you would just license non itinerate channels… or if it moved around to several venues, wouldn’t it be FB2I? I’m not arguing, I’m trying to learn! I honestly don’t know. My license is MO6 for my fixed location, so I can rent my radios to anyone inside my coverage area, but my itinerate is MOI so it’s for internal use only.

-B

If you were a vendor and your business frequently took you to different venues it may make sense to have itinerants because you don't have a crystal ball to know where your services might be needed from time to time. This applies to many small businesses small and large. Goodyear has itinerants for the blimps. CISCO has a bunch of itinerants. On the other hand, you will find that sports venues like NFL and INDY have extensive internal and external frequency coordination and utilize site specific frequencies for all their major events, which are planned years in advance. But they probably have some itinerants or may find themselves scrambling to be legal for special events.

 

[BMDaug]

If you were a vendor and your business frequently took you to different venues it may make sense to have itinerants because you don't have a crystal ball to know where your services might be needed from time to time. This applies to many small businesses small and large. Goodyear has itinerants for the blimps. CISCO has a bunch of itinerants. On the other hand, you will find that sports venues like NFL and INDY have extensive internal and external frequency coordination and utilize site specific frequencies for all their major events, which are planned years in advance. But they probably have some itinerants or may find themselves scrambling to be legal for special events.

Ok I see! I guess it’s just about how a mobile is defined versus a base station that’s moving around to potentially unknown destinations. I guess if you’re setting up a radio in a tent, for a few days, you’ve got an FB and not an MO… I have a manpack, a mobile in my vehicle, and seven portables so I did mobiles only. My UHF channels are a pair, so I set myself up for a repeater in the future, though I’d need to modify the license to show the repeater site location and tower height etc. I guess I could use my VHF channels as a pair, but the offset would be super weird. It would work for me as all of my radios are fully programmable, but it would be atypical.

Thanks for the explanation!!

-B

 

[alcahuete]

There is a list of VHF/UHF itinerant channels on this site and another one and both showed all 4 frequencies were for itinerant use. Guess they were out of date...

The itinerants listed on RR have not been accurate for years, if ever. It's yet another reason you shouldn't be using a hobbyist site for your information when it comes to your commercial business. The entire Industrial/Business Pool of frequencies is listed right in CFR Part 90, with their various designations, including itinerant use.

I am curious exactly the fees charged for the license and was any of it based on the quantity of frequencies?

The only thing based on the quantity of frequencies is coordination. The FCC does not charge based on the quantity.

 

[speedway_navigator]

Back when I was doing racing I did an STA for the whole season with multiple sites and dates. That worked for a few years, then the nice FCC lady who did my STAs said they changed policy and each STA had to be site specific. I just looked at some from 2007 for the NBA finals and I had 3 locations on 1 STA and it was approved.

Check out WPXR847 for MO6I for Nationwide including Hawaii, Alaska, and US Territories.
The FCC site is dog slow right now.

 

[BMDaug]

Back when I was doing racing I did an STA for the whole season with multiple sites and dates. That worked for a few years, then the nice FCC lady who did my STAs said they changed policy and each STA had to be site specific. I just looked at some from 2007 for the NBA finals and I had 3 locations on 1 STA and it was approved.

Check out WPXR847 for MO6I for Nationwide including Hawaii, Alaska, and US Territories.
The FCC site is dog slow right now.

In the words of Hank Hooper… “The Federal Clown Commission”… I’m just happy to have my license.