Just bought a Baofeng uv-5r

[Wjbell]

I tried posting this don't know if it went through so I apologize if it did and I'm reposting.

I'm completely new to ham radio and I'm trying to connect with a friend about 200 mi away. We both have the uv5r and I've managed to find and connect to a repeater successfully.

If we both are able to connect to a repeater can we talk to each other. I'm sorry for the very basic question. Does transmitting from my radio just throw a wide net on the whole airspace and he can hear me and respond to me? In other words, if I try to make a call to him specifically could anybody respond back to me? I'm pretty sure I can't pinpoint his radio so where only him and I are talking back and forth. This is all very new to me and we'll start with that basic question. Thank you for any information that will help me figure this out.

 

[AK9R]

Unless the repeaters are linked somehow, you and your friend would have to both be talking through the same repeater. It's very unlikely that you will be able to communicate using a handheld VHF/UHF radio with someone 200 miles away unless you are going through a linked repeater system.

Yes, when you transmit, your radio generates a "cloud" of RF energy that is roughly spherical in shape. Anyone within that cloud can hear your transmission.

Yes, if you call someone on amateur radio, anyone who decodes your transmission can answer.

 

[Wjbell]

Unless the repeaters are linked somehow, you and your friend would have to both be talking through the same repeater. It's very unlikely that you will be able to communicate using a handheld VHF/UHF radio with someone 200 miles away unless you are going through a linked repeater system.

Yes, when you transmit, your radio generates a "cloud" of RF energy that is roughly spherical in shape. Anyone within that cloud can hear your transmission.

Yes, if you call someone on amateur radio, anyone who decodes your transmission can answer.

Okay thank you. I kind of understand that and then I don't. So, when you hear about people on ham radio talking to people in Germany or some other country are they doing that with a linked repeater system? I've seen repeaters called echo-link, or go by certain names. Is that what you call a linked repeater system? So if theirs is an EchoLink repeater and yours is an EchoLink repeater that means they can link up and me and my friend can talk to each other? IOW, my EchoLink repeater will find another EchoLink repeater in between me and my friend and then finally connect to his echo-link repeater?

Thank you for any information.

 

[K4EET]

Like @AK9R stated, at 200 miles separation, you would need to access repeaters on each end that are connected via a linked repeater system using your analog FM handi-talkie (HT). On the other hand, you could consider investing in digital HTs that could access digital repeaters on each end that are connected through the Internet using D-STAR (ICOM and Kenwood), FUSION (Yaesu), DMR (Alinco, AnyTone, or any DMR Tier 2 capable HT), or a few other digital technologies, you all should be able to communicate with each other IF you can both access the same digital talkgroup. I know that sounds a little complicated. Another method is to have digital HTs and access each other via a HotSpot device.

Also with an entry level Technician license, you have limited capabilities via HF that could probably connect directly over the 200 mile distance with the right antenna and cooperating band conditions. The General Class or Amateur Extra Class license would give you a lot more frequencies to make the connection with.

If you want to tell us generally where you two are located (city and state), we could possibly be able to help you two connect up with some more definitive information. If you are in the same State, one of the State sub-forums may be able to also provide you with better assistance.

Finally, as you get better acquainted with all that Amateur Radio has to offer, this will all make more sense and become second nature to you. Hang in there and don’t give up. When there is a will, you can probably find a way!

73, Dave K4EET

 

[ladn]

Okay thank you. I kind of understand that and then I don't. So, when you hear about people on ham radio talking to people in Germany or some other country are they doing that with a linked repeater system? I've seen repeaters called echo-link, or go by certain names. Is that what you call a linked repeater system? So if theirs is an EchoLink repeater and yours is an EchoLink repeater that means they can link up and me and my friend can talk to each other? IOW, my EchoLink repeater will find another EchoLink repeater in between me and my friend and then finally connect to his echo-link repeater?

Welcome to amateur radio.

Repeaters can be linked a variety of ways. EchoLink repeaters are connected through what is basically a central hub (you connect to the hub and the hub links you to the repeater you choose).

Other repeaters link via RF (including microwave) or various types of IP links. The PAPA System here in SoCal links their machines via IP.

You mention "people on ham radio talking to people in Germany or some outer country...." One way is linked repeaters or using digital modes like DMR, AllStar or SystemFusion. But the more traditional way this is accomplished is using ham radio high frequency (HF) allocations.

As counterintuitive as it sounds, HF is actually lower in frequency (around 3.5 MHz, 7 MHz, 14 MHz, or 28 MHz) than the VHF/UHF (144-148 MHz and 420-450 MHz) that your Baofeng uses. HF requires much larger antennas and different operating techniques. You don't mention you license class, but if you're in the USA and a have a Technician license, you have limited HF voice privileges (28.3-28.5 MHz USB). To really take advantage of HF, you'd need a General class or higher.

I'll second the suggestion that you go back an carefully review your Technician licensing materials or view some of Dave Casler's (KE0OG) video for a more detailed explanation of how things work.

 

[nd5y]

So, when you hear about people on ham radio talking to people in Germany or some other country are they doing that with a linked repeater system? I've seen repeaters called echo-link, or go by certain names. Is that what you call a linked repeater system?

There are different types of linking systems. They are not all compatible. Some are not limited to repeaters.
See the Digital Radio Networks and VoIP/RoIP Networks sections of the wiki article Amateur Radio - The RadioReference Wiki.
I addition to that there are ways to link repeaters and remote bases without an IP network.

Some repeaters are private. You might need permission before you use them to talk to your friend. There could be other restrictions on use.

 

[AK9R]

So, when you hear about people on ham radio talking to people in Germany or some other country are they doing that with a linked repeater system?

Maybe.

Amateur radio covers a portions of the radio spectrum starting at around 135 kHz (below the AM broadcast band) and extending up 10 GHz and more. Radio wave propagation changes depending on the frequency you are using and may change depending on the time of day and solar activity.

Your Baofeng radio transmits on the 2m (144-148 MHz) band and the 70cm (430-450 MHz) band. This what we call VHF and UHF. The range of two-way communications in the VHF and UHF bands is often described as "line of site" meaning that their range is limited by the curvature of the earth and the height above ground of the antennas being used. If you and your buddy are both standing on tall mountain peaks, you might be able to communicate for 20-40 miles.

Other radios transmit in the 160m (1.8-2.0 MHz) through 10m (28.0-29.7 MHz) bands. This is what we call HF. Depending on the time of day and solar activity, hams can use HF to bounce their signals off of the ionosphere. This gives them the ability to talk around the world using just their radio/antenna and the other guy's radio/antenna.

Repeaters typically use the VHF and UHF bands. A repeater with its antenna on a tall tower may give its users a usable range of 10-50 miles. Linking repeaters extends that range, but it makes the communications dependent on commercial infrastructure. Allstar Network, Echolink, and IRLP are common ways to link analog repeaters. D-STAR, DMR, WIRES-X (System Fusion) are common ways to link digital voice repeaters.

 

[nd5y]

EchoLink repeaters are connected through what is basically a central hub (you connect to the hub and the hub links you to the repeater you choose).

That's not how EchoLink works.
The EchoLink cloud servers don't handle voice traffic. They only provide a list of currently online nodes, their IP addresses and connection status.
All connections between nodes are peer-to-peer. Some nodes can be configured to handle multiple simultaneous connections.

 

[ecps92]

Okay thank you. I kind of understand that and then I don't. So, when you hear about people on ham radio talking to people in Germany or some other country are they doing that with a linked repeater system? I've seen repeaters called echo-link, or go by certain names. Is that what you call a linked repeater system? So if theirs is an EchoLink repeater and yours is an EchoLink repeater that means they can link up and me and my friend can talk to each other? IOW, my EchoLink repeater will find another EchoLink repeater in between me and my friend and then finally connect to his echo-link repeater?

Thank you for any information.

Yes and No - HF aka also referenced as shortwave (1.8 Mhz to 29 Mhz) does not use Repeaters (some 29 Mhz exceptions)

If asking about using a handheld or mobile thru a Repeater to talk worldwide, then yes, generally that would be thru a linked (Echolink or DMR Nodes) system using the internet as the backbone

 

[Wjbell]

Okay, wow. Thanks for all the replies.

I'm pretty technical savvy but this is pretty over my head stuff. I know I can learn it but it's going to take more than me buying a Baofeng and getting my license. (Duh)

So I'm interested in the HF method where it's just radio to radio and bouncing off the ionosphere, but that sounds expensive. The radio I have now is returnable and I'd like to start off with what I need. What I'd like to do is have a radio that I can have for emergencies where I can talk to a friend a couple hundred miles away, talk to people on regular store-bought walkie talkies (the ones that you go hiking with that have a "26 mile" range) and be able to communicate with people in my area in a SHTF situation.

Right now I don't have my license to operate a ham radio but I've inquired about it and from what they told me (a local ham club) that it's pretty easy and you can pass it in a day. Which leads me to believe it's the lowest level you can get and is not too technical in it's an explanation of going into how to connect to repeaters, whether or not you want to go with whatever HF RF platform you're going to be operating on, etc etc.

So what would you guys recommend I start with for the complete newbie in this field? Thank you guys very much.

 

[Wjbell]

Like @AK9R stated, at 200 miles separation, you would need to access repeaters on each end that are connected via a linked repeater system using your analog FM handi-talkie (HT). On the other hand, you could consider investing in digital HTs that could access digital repeaters on each end that are connected through the Internet using D-STAR (ICOM and Kenwood), FUSION (Yaesu), DMR (Alinco, AnyTone, or any DMR Tier 2 capable HT), or a few other digital technologies, you all should be able to communicate with each other IF you can both access the same digital talkgroup. I know that sounds a little complicated. Another method is to have digital HTs and access each other via a HotSpot device.

Also with an entry level Technician license, you have limited capabilities via HF that could probably connect directly over the 200 mile distance with the right antenna and cooperating band conditions. The General Class or Amateur Extra Class license would give you a lot more frequencies to make the connection with.

If you want to tell us generally where you two are located (city and state), we could possibly be able to help you two connect up with some more definitive information. If you are in the same State, one of the State sub-forums may be able to also provide you with better assistance.

Finally, as you get better acquainted with all that Amateur Radio has to offer, this will all make more sense and become second nature to you. Hang in there and don’t give up. When there is a will, you can probably find a way!

73, Dave K4EET

Thank you sir. Well, me and my friend are in the same state, California. I am in Sacramento and he is in Hollister. I think it's about 160 mi away.

So basically I don't know what I need. I probably have the wrong radio to start with. Like I said in another reply, the reasons I want one are to; be able to talk to my friend, be able to talk to people locally in an emergency or SHTF situation and be able to talk to regular hobby walkie talkies that have the various ranges (5 mi to did-you-actually-print-that-on-the-packaging range)

So basically I want something powerful enough and convenient enough to be able to talk to people fairly long range maybe even state to state but nothing out of the country or anything crazy expensive.

What would you guys suggest for something like this. Consider me a blank slate, what would you recommend? Thank you.

 

[HandiScratchy]

Okay, wow. Thanks for all the replies.

I'm pretty technical savvy but this is pretty over my head stuff. I know I can learn it but it's going to take more than me buying a Baofeng and getting my license. (Duh)

So I'm interested in the HF method where it's just radio to radio and bouncing off the ionosphere, but that sounds expensive. The radio I have now is returnable and I'd like to start off with what I need. What I'd like to do is have a radio that I can have for emergencies where I can talk to a friend a couple hundred miles away, talk to people on regular store-bought walkie talkies (the ones that you go hiking with that have a "26 mile" range) and be able to communicate with people in my area in a SHTF situation.

Right now I don't have my license to operate a ham radio but I've inquired about it and from what they told me (a local ham club) that it's pretty easy and you can pass it in a day. Which leads me to believe it's the lowest level you can get and is not too technical in it's an explanation of going into how to connect to repeaters, whether or not you want to go with whatever HF RF platform you're going to be operating on, etc etc.

So what would you guys recommend I start with for the complete newbie in this field? Thank you guys very much.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your interest level) you'll need more than one radio to achieve what you've set out there. Mostly due to FCC rules rather than technical capability of the radios.

The best thing you can give yourself right now is curiosity. Having the radio hardware is only a small part of making a radio contact. In order to reliably reach your friend using RF you will need to understand radio propagation and that comes by practice. Go hands on asap and try things. Many new hams memorize enough of the test questions to pass the exam but they're doing themselves a disservice by not learning the concepts.

When it comes to HF radios they are expensive new. Consider buying used.
I would recommend you buy a radio capable of 100W transmission power. The lower power radios, also known as QRP radios, are very capable of Worldwide contacts but nearly every variablevis more critical. The 100W (QRO) radio power will make it easier as you learn.
Choosing a radio primarily intended to be a fixed station will generally get you access to more features to help make contacts when conditions are less than ideal (they're always less than ideal).

When it comes to handheld radios, understand they are line of sight. Meaning they are mostly for local communication. But having a 2m/440 ht will give you access to local hams who can help you while you're learning HF.

Mobile radios are likely vhf/uhf and commonly 50W. Some more some less. These are often used as base stations complementing an HF rig.

Bubble pack "26 mile" radios are mostly FRS/GMRS. GMRS is a completely different license than amateur. They are FCC Part95 type accepted and that rule keeps amateur radios and GMRS radios separate (legally). That also causes lots of internet fights.

 

[ladn]

What would you guys suggest for something like this. Consider me a blank slate, what would you recommend?

A linked system might be your easiest solution and it will work with your Baofengs (which, BTW, are the Yugo's of two way radio). Look into the CALNET system (Calnet Repeater Group) as an example.

The downside of this is that any and all linked systems depend on infrastructure of some sort that is subject to failure. Perhaps, a better solution for you and your friend would be to get your General class ham licenses and invest in modest HF equipment and operate in NVIS* configuration.

An NVIS station is relatively easy to set up and can give several hundreds of miles of operational range. The downside is the equipment cost. A decent, basic, new HF radio like the Xeigu G90 will be about $500, plus a 12v power supply (about $150) plus DIY antenna (about $100 including insulators, wire and cable). A better, 100W HF radio like the Icom 7300 is about $1100.

*NVIS (Near Vertical Incident Skywave)<<< Do some research to find out what this means.

 

[oldradioguy2010]

Like I said before, we used NVIS on fied day a while back. Should be good for all of 300 mi.
We were on 80m.
Works best at 40m I think.
Give it a shot. Good thought lading.

DW
So. Cal

 

[Wjbell]

A linked system might be your easiest solution and it will work with your Baofengs (which, BTW, are the Yugo's of two way radio). Look into the CALNET system (Calnet Repeater Group) as an example.

The downside of this is that any and all linked systems depend on infrastructure of some sort that is subject to failure. Perhaps, a better solution for you and your friend would be to get your General class ham licenses and invest in modest HF equipment and operate in NVIS* configuration.

An NVIS station is relatively easy to set up and can give several hundreds of miles of operational range. The downside is the equipment cost. A decent, basic, new HF radio like the Xeigu G90 will be about $500, plus a 12v power supply (about $150) plus DIY antenna (about $100 including insulators, wire and cable). A better, 100W HF radio like the Icom 7300 is about $1100.

*NVIS (Near Vertical Incident Skywave)<<< Do some research to find out what this means.

Thank you, that gives me two things to look at. If I go the first route what is a good step up from a Baofeng in the 100 $200 range? Maybe more like the Honda Civic of the handhelds. :⁠-⁠) I think that would be a simpler way for me to go at first until I start learning and then maybe move up to the NVIS stuff.

 

[mmckenna]

Thank you, that gives me two things to look at. If I go the first route what is a good step up from a Baofeng in the 100 $200 range? Maybe more like the Honda Civic of the handhelds. :⁠-⁠) I think that would be a simpler way for me to go at first until I start learning and then maybe move up to the NVIS stuff.

1: Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom are the "big 3" in the amateur radio world. Search specifically for their amateur radio offerings. You generally cannot go wrong with an amateur radio from one of those manufacturers. Yes, there are other brands, but for a new ham, stick with something that is common and you'll find it easier to get help from others.

2: Make sure you get your amateur radio license. You -can- do it in one day with "ham cram" sessions that generally use repetition to program your brain to regurgitate the correct answer when you take the test the same day. But I'd encourage you to spend more time actually learning the subject material. There's more to amateur radio than passing the test. You'll need to learn a lot that is not covered by the test. My wife got her ham license via the ham-cram session method. She retained very limited knowledge after the test.

3. Linked repeaters can do what you want. Finding repeaters that cover both areas will take some work. Remember that repeaters are shared and any ham can listen in. If you want private communications, amateur radio is not for you.

4. HF radio with NVIS antennas can absolutely do what you want. We frequently use HF to talk from areas near Hollister to the CalOES office in Sacramento using HF band and NVIS antennas. It's more investment, and the antennas are large, but it'll give you direct radio to radio communications statewide with no external infrastructure.

5. As a soon to be new ham, I'd encourage you to start with a basic hand held radio from one of the "big 3" and find some linked repeaters in the Sacrament and Hollister areas to do what you want. That'll be faster/easier to do.

6. Remember that amateur radio is a hobby, and the idea is that you start with minimal knowledge, and through practice and learning, you expand your capabilities. It takes time. So don't try to do it all in the first few days. Start slow, build up, continue to learn.

7 Radio services like CB, FRS, GMRS, MURS, etc. are separate from amateur radio and the amateur radio license does NOT cover operating on those frequencies. You will need to learn and understand FCC type acceptance. Using amateur radios on other radio services is usually not permitted because of this. If you want CB, FRS, GMRS or MURS, you'll need an appropriate radio, and an amateur radio is NOT it.

8. Don't forget, it's a hobby and supposed to be fun.

 

[ladn]

Thank you, that gives me two things to look at. If I go the first route what is a good step up from a Baofeng in the 100 $200 range? Maybe more like the Honda Civic of the handhelds. :⁠-⁠) I think that would be a simpler way for me to go at first until I start learning and then maybe move up to the NVIS stuff.

Look at offerings from the "big three" Japanese companies: Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu. All three are respected companies with good warranty service and a large dealer network. Visit the Ham Radio Outlet (HRO) store in Sacramento (4813 Auburn Blvd, Suite B, Sacramento, CA 95841, Tel. 1-916-659-7373).

Many newer radios offer conventional FM, like your Baofeng plus "digital". This can be rather confusing because there are multiple digital modes used in amateur radio, but they aren't cross compatible while conventional FM is cross compatible between all radios.

Another radio to consider is the Anytone 878 UVII. It's a Chinese radio, but a sizeable step up from the Baofeng. It's a dual band radio with conventional FM plus DMR digital. I have had one for several years and have found it to be a well made, versatile radio. DMR is probably the most popular of the digital modes and works through linked repeaters and "talk groups" (like virtual channels). I think HRO sells Anytone radios, if not, my vendor of choice is Let's Get Ready (New Version AnyTone AT-D878UV II Plus with GPS Bluetooth Dual Band DMR/Analog Radio). Avoid BridgeCom Systems at all costs.

You will also want to get programming software for whatever radio you end up with. Many users here, myself included, like RT Systems software. Unlike CHIRP which you probably use for your Baofeng, the RT Systems software is very radio specific. Cost is usually about $50 for the software package and a high quality programming cable.

Do some homework and shop around a little,, then come back a more educated consumer and give users here a chance to evaluate your potential purchases.

 

[jwt873]

One more wrinkle Do you know for a fact that the repeater you plan to use for linking uses Echolink or some other analog FM mode? Many linked systems today use digital modes such as DMR or D-STAR. The UV-5R isn't capable of accessing digital repeaters.

 

[HandiScratchy]

Thank you, that gives me two things to look at. If I go the first route what is a good step up from a Baofeng in the 100 $200 range? Maybe more like the Honda Civic of the handhelds. :⁠-⁠) I think that would be a simpler way for me to go at first until I start learning and then maybe move up to the NVIS stuff.

A Yaesu FT70DR 2m/440 HT will get you on Fusion and is well regarded. If you both have Fusion repeaters near by you'll be able to connect. You can also get a hot spot and be your own repeater of sorts to connect with your friend. I have this setup personally and it works fine.

 

[Wjbell]

Look at offerings from the "big three" Japanese companies: Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu. All three are respected companies with good warranty service and a large dealer network. Visit the Ham Radio Outlet (HRO) store in Sacramento (4813 Auburn Blvd, Suite B, Sacramento, CA 95841, Tel. 1-916-659-7373).

Many newer radios offer conventional FM, like your Baofeng plus "digital". This can be rather confusing because there are multiple digital modes used in amateur radio, but they aren't cross compatible while conventional FM is cross compatible between all radios.

Another radio to consider is the Anytone 878 UVII. It's a Chinese radio, but a sizeable step up from the Baofeng. It's a dual band radio with conventional FM plus DMR digital. I have had one for several years and have found it to be a well made, versatile radio. DMR is probably the most popular of the digital modes and works through linked repeaters and "talk groups" (like virtual channels). I think HRO sells Anytone radios, if not, my vendor of choice is Let's Get Ready (New Version AnyTone AT-D878UV II Plus with GPS Bluetooth Dual Band DMR/Analog Radio). Avoid BridgeCom Systems at all costs.

You will also want to get programming software for whatever radio you end up with. Many users here, myself included, like RT Systems software. Unlike CHIRP which you probably use for your Baofeng, the RT Systems software is very radio specific. Cost is usually about $50 for the software package and a high quality programming cable.

Do some homework and shop around a little,, then come back a more educated consumer and give users here a chance to evaluate your potential purchases.

One other thing. I was looking at the

Yaesu Original FT-65 FT-65R 144/440 Dual-Band Rugged & Compact Handheld Transceiver, 5W - 3 Year Warranty​

And it says it's 5 Watts. The Baofeng says it's 8 watts. Is the eight watch just a fairy tail number or is it really a Watts? And would this make it a more powerful radio? I'm wondering because when we were kids we used to go to the flea market for audio equipment and you get the "2000" watt amp and it would perform worse than the name brand 200 w amplifier.