KRX387 New York State Thruway Authority

[cookiend15]

Hello fellow scanners. I'am looking for some help with the following callsign that I came across while just looking through the FCC database under Montgomery County, New York. I came across the callsign KRX387 licensed to the New York State Thruway Authority. The following frequencies I know of for the Thruway. 453.425, 453.525, 458.425 & 458.525. Under this callsign there are a lot more frequencies licensed to this callsign. I believe that it said there were 76 frequencies assigned to that callsign. I would like for anyone to check out this callsign KRX387 and take a look at all of the other frequencies listed under this callsign besides the well known 4 frequencies listed earlier, and let me know what you think, and also if anyone has heard any of these other frequencies assigned to this callsign being used. Thank you.

 

[6m171]

There aren't 76 actual frequencies. There are 76 listings. Each frequency at each site has to be listed seperately. The 453(8).425 and 453(8).525 are actually repeater pairs.

You're seeing about 5 additional repeater pairs listed.

453.2625 is a repeater output. It's licensed for sites in Albany, New Baltimore, Kingston, and Rotterdam.
460.05 is licensed as a repeater in Kingston
460.3 is licensed as a repeater in Albany
460.3125 is a repeater licensed for sites in Palatine, New Baltimore, Kingston, East Chatham, and Albany
And there was one other one and a miscellaneous frequency that I missed.
You're also seeing the associated mobile entries and input frequencies for those pairs.

Find the significance of those sites to the Thruway Authority and you may find your answer.

Just some food for thought.

 

[DaveNF2G]

The narrowband channels are not yet in use near Albany. Nor is 460.3000 (which is probably set to be NB as well). 460.3125 is too close in frequency to other locally used UHF channels, so it's impossible to monitor in carrier squelch.

 

[SCANdal]

An answer to our prayers (?)

Gentlemen,

Studies performed by the Authority's radiomen found that the system, as it currently exists - with maintenance, engineers, state troopers, plows, sanders, franchise tow trucks, contractors, toll plazas, wreckers, etc., etc., etc. all sharing "one channel" in their respective zones - is too congested. I think anyone who has spent any time listening to the current system would agree. As a result, the Authority's radiomen have begun development of a stand alone system for each "Maintenance" depot to off load their radio traffic from the main channel(s). What cookiend15 may have stumbled upon is the beginnings of that effort in his zone. In zones 1 and 5 call signs associated with the construction of this second system are:

WNQC875,
WPYX816, and
KRX387...

...with a total of 11 'new' frequencies associated among the three call signs. As Dave suggested above, while there may be a block of frequencies licensed to each site, the techs realize that local conditons may prohibit the use of specific frequencies, so don't expect all of the frequncies to get used in or near specific areas.

As an occasional traveler on the Thruway, I look forward to having the maintenance radio traffic seperated off the main channel(s) on to it's own network and wish the TA's radiomen the best of luck on this ambitious and difficult project.

SCANdal

 

[c0untyb0y]

can't the NYSTA wait for SWN to solve all of their communication bottle necks?!

 

[DaveNF2G]

Why wait 10 years or more when you have a safety problem right now?

 

[c0untyb0y]

it seems like every other state agency is waiting on SWN to solve their radio problems, and the Thruway looks like they're heading down their own path. in the interest of safety, it's a wonderful idea, but I'm thinking that when SWN arrives statewide, and provided that the Thruway is still in business, wouldn't you think they'll go the way of the SWN too?

 

[6m171]

There's not doubt they will go to SWN - it's a directive of the State.

The problem there is that the Thruway Authority must wait for the ENTIRE SWN buildout to be complete and tested statewide before they can migrate. Some other State agencies may be able to migrate in pockets as the system is being built. As it stands right now, a Thruway unit can travel from NYC to Albany to Jamestown and talk to the same dispatcher on the same two channels. They won't be able to do that with SWN until the majority of the SWN infrastructure is complete. Right now, it's anyone's guess as to how long it will be. Sure, the contract says 10 years. I've managed enough projects to know that it's WAY too soon to tell.

That said, if the Thruway Authority is in fact building out to offload some of the maintenance traffic on the existing system, they're probably doing the right thing. There is a need NOW, and they're addressing it NOW instead of waiting for something to blow up.

Remember, it's not just maintenance on the system, it's police too. That's a critical use of the infrastructure. I've listened to Thruway dispatchers scream "RED FLASH" for several minutes while the maintenance folks keep yapping on. Kinda sucks for the cops when they have to get a priority message through.

 

[c0untyb0y]

I've been a listener of the Thruway radio system Syracuse zone ever since I was in the Utica area for college some 10 years ago now. I am amazed by the amount of radio traffic on that channel, and all of that traffic is handled by one dispatcher per zone! It seems as if the law enforcement, toll booths & roll calls, tow trucks, maintenance trucks, and who knows what else were all vying for at least a few seconds of clear air to get their message through.

Why couldn't the troop patrol cars use the VHF troop radios and call the local SP HQs on that radio for the mundane V&T data? Wouldn't that alleviate part of their radio traffic issues today? It isn't the best solution, but a start nonetheless. In this day and age, would it also make sense for the tow truck companies to use cell phones instead of calling out on the air for their mundane radio traffic too?

 

[SCANdal]

Do you listen to the Troop channels at all?

County,

I'm not sure how busy your local troop is, but your proposal to switch state police traffic to other troops wouldn't work in the Thruway zone 5 area. Troop F channels are busy enough on their own with SP patrols of local towns and highway patrols. In fact, in an effort to ease the burden on the Troop F channels much of SP Haverstraw's units have moved much of their mundane (data, plate) checks off of Troop F channels on to Rockland's "County" channel and the barracks in Orange County make extensive use of County talkgroups on a private regional 800 MHz trunked system.

As to your suggestion that the tow trucks move to cellular telephones...you mention yourself that one dispatcher handles an entire zone. What difference does it make if he/she talks to them on the radio or on the phone?

SCANdal

 

[6m171]

Why couldn't the troop patrol cars use the VHF troop radios and call the local SP HQs on that radio for the mundane V&T data? Wouldn't that alleviate part of their radio traffic issues today? It isn't the best solution, but a start nonetheless. In this day and age, would it also make sense for the tow truck companies to use cell phones instead of calling out on the air for their mundane radio traffic too?

A) That would then require the Thruway Trooper to know not only which troop he (or she) is in, but also which zone. A 20 mile stretch of the Thruway out here that may be covered by one Trooper spans three zones within two troops. I can see the cheat-sheet on the dash of the car now... "MP xxx-xxx call SP Batavia on X" repeated 20 times over for the entire 550 miles of toads covered by the NYSTA.

B) By calling on the air, tow trucks are checking in with the toll booth, the dispatcher, and the (usually) on-scene trooper all at the same time. It also enables the NYSTA to give updates to the tow truck as needed. I will also tell you, from many years of experience responding to fire and EMS calls on the TWay, tow trucks are just as important to safety on a limited-access highway as the fire trucks and ambulances. For some of the areas on the Thruway (Rochester, Buffalo, around NYC) for every minute the road is closed, the backup extends as much as a mile. And it usually takes 3-5 times as long to get the logjam cleared out as it does to create it. Keeping traffic moving is of HUGE importance on the Thruway.

 

[Spec]

NYS Tway

It really goes back further than that. The T way is and was a "Authority" and when they were created they had their own police enforcement. It was not until later years that they became part of the NYSP. The vehicle are owned by the "Authority". You might note the dual seals on most patrol vehicles. Since the system was a better system at that time than the standard SP system they just left it. Now as time past on the system is now overloaded and needs a make over. I believe the T way now also has something to do with the canal system.

Not to hijack the thread but the new statewide inter-system will be a link between agencies also not just a replacement system for existing systems. The MTA ( also an "Authority") is also building their own system and will have a link to SWN. I have my own feelings about swn , but they shall remain just that..my own.

Spec

 

[SCANdal]

Too late now...

I have my own feelings about swn , but they shall remain just that..my own.

Spec,

I'll share mine with you though...B O O N D A G G L E

Speaking of authorities that are taking the right step and developing their own upgraded radio systems...check WQCW612 for details on the new State Bridge Authority's trunked system.

SCANdal

 

[Spec]

Nys Ba

I believe it's LTR and it might be up and running on the Mid Hudson Br. site 3/4. I don't look at them much. However it's something to look at.
Spec

 

[DaveNF2G]

There are hundreds of miles of Interstate highways that "belong" to the NYTA now, but where the radio system does not cover. Adding I-86, I-87 north of I-90, and I-88 to the existing system would be a nightmare. They definitely need a more robust radio network before they can expand their communications.

 

[c0untyb0y]

County,

I'm not sure how busy your local troop is, but your proposal to switch state police traffic to other troops wouldn't work in the Thruway zone 5 area. Troop F channels are busy enough on their own with SP patrols of local towns and highway patrols. In fact, in an effort to ease the burden on the Troop F channels much of SP Haverstraw's units have moved much of their mundane (data, plate) checks off of Troop F channels on to Rockland's "County" channel and the barracks in Orange County make extensive use of County talkgroups on a private regional 800 MHz trunked system.

SCANdal

Well, someone had to start thinking outside of the NYSTA box. If T-way comms are an issue today and they're not yet using a radio system built for tomorrow, then how have the safety issues and concerns of today been addressed?

Also, do you think the radio traffic will get better or worse when the SP creates their regional dispatch centers?

As to your suggestion that the tow trucks move to cellular telephones...you mention yourself that one dispatcher handles an entire zone. What difference does it make if he/she talks to them on the radio or on the phone?

SCANdal

I probably didn't make my previous statement clear enough, my fault. It would then be necessary for the T-way to add more comm specs to their dispatch center. They'll need to eventually once they start using the new radio system, yes?

 

[c0untyb0y]

A) That would then require the Thruway Trooper to know not only which troop he (or she) is in, but also which zone. A 20 mile stretch of the Thruway out here that may be covered by one Trooper spans three zones within two troops. I can see the cheat-sheet on the dash of the car now... "MP xxx-xxx call SP Batavia on X" repeated 20 times over for the entire 550 miles of toads covered by the NYSTA.

That would require the SP to realign their own internal TZS structure, not the Thruway giving cheat sheets to their Troopers. Troop T is eliminated as it is known today; all other Troops will have 2 to 3 zones (none for NYC, obviously), and if the T-way happens to run though a Troop, it should be called Zone 4. Mr. Thruway Commissioner, please sign the county, town, village & city lines on the Thruway!!! Then the Z4 cars could have both their own Troop radios and the T-way radio for those times where Thruway HQ needs them to respond to incidents, a la County 911 centers dispatching SP cars.

Now, like SCANdal stated, Troops may have a lot of radio traffic (and for the record, yes I do listed to my Troop's radio traffic, both at home and at work) so obviously my ideas aren't exactly fool proof.

B) By calling on the air, tow trucks are checking in with the toll booth, the dispatcher, and the (usually) on-scene trooper all at the same time. It also enables the NYSTA to give updates to the tow truck as needed. I will also tell you, from many years of experience responding to fire and EMS calls on the TWay, tow trucks are just as important to safety on a limited-access highway as the fire trucks and ambulances. For some of the areas on the Thruway (Rochester, Buffalo, around NYC) for every minute the road is closed, the backup extends as much as a mile. And it usually takes 3-5 times as long to get the logjam cleared out as it does to create it. Keeping traffic moving is of HUGE importance on the Thruway.

The business of the T-way is keeping traffic flowing. It should also be the responsibility of the T-way to allow traffic their toll waived and exit at the earliest convenient point to allow that traffic to keep flowing, where the road is closed for any reason - weather, accidents, etc.

I also didn't say to rip out of the tow trucks their two-ways either, or prohibit them from calling enroute and on scene. But giving motorist info over the air... is it really good use of the spectrum?

 

[DaveNF2G]

Every option proposed so far involves inserting delays into the communications system. That means moving in the wrong direction.

 

[SCANdal]

With regard to your comments above...

County,

I don't know how far "outside of the NYSTA box" I'd be thinking. Yes, there are some congestion issues that the TA is trying to resolve, but the Thruway Authority's radio system, as it stands today, is actually held up as an example of one of the better public service radio systems in use in the metropolitan New York area. It's dispatchers are disciplined. It's end users are disciplined. Radio protocols are well defined and rigidly enforced - that's how they are dealing with today's safety issues. I do not expect that to change once the new repeaters are brought on line.

Regarding regional dispatch centers...I know nothing about the SP creating any new ones. Perhaps you can fill us in on details. I know that the State of Maine is implementing something along those lines - I hope New York doesn't follow suit.

About adding more communications specialists: I'm confused. Are you under the impression that there is literally only one working each zone at a time? There aren't. There are at least two. The new radio system will not have any impact on the number of dispatchers required. My understanding is that these new repeaters will be stand-alone - not linked back to Albany.

Eliminate Troop T? As a motorist on the Thruway would you want to see that? If you are a public safety responder on the Thruway (volunteer FD, EMT) would you like to see that? I know in my neck of the woods Thruway patrols are already sparse - and that's with a Troop dedicated to it's patrol. Could you imagine adding the local segment of a Thruway property to the burden of a regular Troop? I won't even get into the accounting nightmare that would be created if the Thruway Authority had to pay for eight troops' worth of coverage (and equipment) instead of just one.

Your inference that County 911 centers do a good job of dispatching SP cars is very location dependent. Here in Orange it's a disaster. To use that has a template for the Thruway Authority to assign local Troop "Zone 4" cars to jobs on the Thruway would, in my opinion, further delay already slow responses on the Thruway.

Tow trucks: What motorist info is put over the air by them (or to them) aside from the plate number of the vehicle on the hook?

As this is a radio discussion board, I am not going to expand on your points regarding signage and exit policies.

County, this discussion has lost it's focus. Let me try to get it back on track with a quick recap:

> cook'15 found some odd frequencies licensed to the TA.
> I explain that the TA is trying to enhance operations on it's existing two channel system by moving some maintanance / low priority radio traffic off the main channels to 'local' repeaters.
> You offer a counter-proposal (using the SWN - when and if that ever materializes).
> Somehow the conversation turns to getting the State Police and the tow trucks off the main system.
> I'm here to wrap this up. The problem isn't the Troopers or the tow trucks. The problem is the yellow trucks, the blue trucks, and their yards. While they aren't going to banned from the current channels, they are going to have access to a new system where they can talk to each other without forcing all the other services to listen in.

SCANdal

 

[kc2kvz]

Just an FYI, all zones of troop T are dispatched through Albany at headquarters. I'm sure it would be more efficient to add some frequencies to the system for maintainance and maybe that's what the future use of these are.