Las Vegas area RRDB -- Let's 'Do Work!'

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Hooligan

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The RRDB for the Clark County area has been long-overdue for some updating by us. Absolutely, some people
have been making contributions in the recent past, however, it's an embarrassment that up-until this week, the RRDB still listed
the Lady Luck (a hotel/casino that seems to have closed about 10 years ago, & been the Downtown Grand since 2013). Numerous properties that switched to DMR months if-not longer ago still
had & have data for their old, analog systems up. Some systems showing Connect+ or Capacity+ don't have the complete LCN data and/or minimal minimal talk-groups. Some systems that have gone encrypted don't reflect that, etc. This week I made a few very basic submissions to the RRDB to try to rid it of the blantant outdated info so that people don't waste time with it, but now's the time to work to get good info into the DB.

Unfortunately, history has demonstrated that us locals don't really work well together to collectively investigate & share info (mea culpa), but this post is an effort to remedy that, for the sake of us as-well as all the scanner-geeks coming to our area to spend their $$ on vice, and save-us locals from unpleasantries like a state income tax. Yes, the down-side is that the hard work we do here is monetized by the owner of this web site & database, which is why my sharing here will still be limited, but maybe he'll buy us all Whistler 200s & SOS200s to share the love.

I've got the resources to dedicate a receiver & recorder to record days or even weeks-worth of voice traffic on a frequency or talk-group in order to try to ID user/use, but alas, when it comes to DMR or LTR, I'm handicapped by unident receivers that don't provide data other than DMR Color Code & a unident 536 that's got an LCN finder capability that's apparently not reliable.

If others can help ID & confirm ("trust, but verify") proper LCNs for Cap+ & Connect+ DMR, I'll set the system up in my receivers & can help with talk group data. Between old/bad info in the RRDB and the LV area being congested-enough that the FCC On-Line licensing system is helpful but not conclusive, I hope I'm not the only one that gets off my ass and actually investigates/confirms info by going to a property & trying to confirm their use via RF signal strength. For example, plenty of Stations Casinos use some of the same 900MHz freqs for their new Capacity+ systems. Last night I sat in the Palace Station parking structure with the antenna off a receiver to confirm that 936.150MHz Color Code 8 was their system (WPFX882), while 936.150MHz Color Code 9 is Sunset Station's Cap+ system (KNNF727). I then risked life & limb for the good of society by going to Boulder Station Casino to verify by signal-strength their WPFN334 frequencies & which DMR Color Codes their Cap+ system uses, as from home, I hear several different DMR Cap+ systems & color codes. Certainly, monitoring from home is helpful too -- If I hear on 936.700MHz Color Channel 14: "Advise IM that there's a wet-spill in front of Pizza Rock" then I know that freq & Color Code are being used by the Green Valley Ranch Resort Cap+ system.

Once we have & seem to agree we've got the basics of a system (freqs, system type, Color Codes, Time Slots, Talk Groups & basic TG use), we can have someone submit that data to the RRDB, then we could move-on to another Place/System to focus on here. If enough of us who know what the hell we're doing collectively target a system, we should be able to objectively gather & objectively confirm enough of the important info pretty quickly & then focus our collective resources onto the next system pretty quickly.
 

Hooligan

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For the first collective effort, I suggest the MGM Grand.

Here's the old RRDB listing: https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=3450

Here's a link to their current primary radio system WPNY614 license: ULS License - Business, 896-901/935-940 MHz, Trunked License - WPNY614 - MGM GRAND HOTEL & CASINO, LLC
Note that it fails to indicate they're licensed for DMR now. I find this license vs. reality issue is pretty common in our area. If MGM Grand &
their LMR consultant is decent & the FCC is smart, not all of the analog frequencies will be re-licensed for their DMR system, since not all should be needed for it, so it's a matter of first determining which of these freqs are a part of their DMR system.

Here's are some of their old, analog trunked system freqs that are in re-use by their Capacity+ DMR system:

937.0125 DMR Capacity+ CC5 – MGM Grand TRS
937.025 DMR Capacity+ CC5 – MGM Grand TRS
937.7375 DMR Capacity+ CC7 (or CC5?) Should be WPNY614 – MGM Grand
938.150 DMR Capacity+ CC5 – MGM Grand TRS

Other related freqs:
462.5625/250.3 – Likely MGM 'Wet Republic' Club (pool) ops. Mentions of day beds, etc. Simplex
463.250/DCS503 – Hakkasan restaurant/nightclub ops repeater.
 

737mech

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I agree there is a lot of work to do. I found many things in that range 937-939 some already in the rrdb some not. It's hard to ID the tg's when it's people only talking name to name. Then to see how much stuff can be slammed into such a narrow freq band! So I can confirm the MGM stuff you posted. 937.025 very active. The talkgroup id's are in the 20000-21000 range. highest I saw 20107 tonight. When I can I'll gather info and try to help.
 

kma371

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Reno is in the same shape with regards to casinos and such. Ive thought about planning a trip of a couple days up there. Might be able to get some monitoring in too.
 

atech

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I will do what I can from up here (st george) and when I travel down! And thanks for the the info & great work!
 

Mike-KC8OWL

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Great idea and THANK YOU.

DMR seems to be the new go-to system for anything service related (hotel / casino / retail / etc). I need to come up with a better way to capture the CC and TG ID reliably. I have considered using an SDR with a DMR add-on like DSD+ so I can contribute updates on these systems that include all the details. I think I will try to get this running today.
 

Hooligan

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Someone, apparently back in February, submitted some CCs & LCNs for the MGM Grand DMR system:
Site Frequency Table

CH ID Frequency Color Code
2162 937.250 5
2219 937.7375 5
2252 938.150 5
2491 938.2375 5

I put that into my Unidents and it would not track the system.

A friend & I ran LCN Finder last week using my Unidont 536 and four out of the 5 LCNs
it provided were different than the above -- only 2252 for 938.150MHz matched. Additionally,
we also had 937.7125 in as part of the system, with CC5 & LCN Finder came up with LCN 2217
for it (all LCNs it came-up with for the MGM Grand system were 22## series). However, I put that into
my Unidont 536 & 996P2, and it still wasn't tracking the system at all, even though by setting the freqs up manually, I
could hear MGM traffic on them (& of course, the Whistler scanner seemed to track the new MGM DMR system
just fine. I also tried experimenting with some of the other programming settings using ARC-XT PRO software, with no success.

So if anyone is sure that they're correctly tracking the MGM Grand system using a Unident, could you please post the exact
settings you're using here?

I'm having the same issues with the newish Mandalay Bay Cap+ system.
Some people are suggesting that the Unidont P2 & 436/536 don't handle Digital Trunking Tier 3 (DT3) systems.
 

KG7PBS

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Reno is doing okay in the casinos. The Atlantis is 900 Cap+. GSR 800 Cap+. Silver legacy transitioning from LTR 900 to capacity plus. Need help on them. The rest are correct in the database
 

737mech

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So far today I have 12 TGIDs All of them cc=5 both on sl1 and sl2.
20003
20004
20015
20020
20027
20059
20062
20063
20065
20082
20102
20107

Programmed in as a MotoTRBO Trunked system type with the five freqs posted. 937-938. ID Search is on The Digital Threshold Setting is manual with a value of 8. Running LCN finder now.
 

Mike-KC8OWL

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I'm having the same results with my 996p2. I will see what I can do with the sds100. Side note - of all the strip DMR systems this one is by far the strongest signal on the east end of Henderson (east of Boulder Hwy and off of Galleria Drive by the Chimera golf course).
 

737mech

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The LCN finder produced some strange results.
937.0125 2161
937.025 2252
937.7125 2217
937.7375 2219
938.15 3468
 

diskmonger

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The LCN finder produced some strange results.
937.0125 2161
937.025 2252
937.7125 2217
937.7375 2219
938.15 3468

I was reading somewhere that 800/900Mhz systems that use LCN numbers have LCN's that are 3 or 4 digits, not sure how true or accurate that is. When I was out there a couple weeks ago we programmed the system in using these exact settings and we seemed to get "some" traffic, but it was very obvious we were missing a lot. Had a Whistler scanner scanning the frequencies conventionally and there was traffic that was not being picked up on the Uniden radio.
 

Hooligan

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So it seems like several of us -- albeit using LCN Finder on the same sort of radios (536s) are having issues. Mike, I'm very interested to learn how your SOS100 does with LCN finding & monitoring MGM (& Mandy). So far, it's seems like at least the first version of DMR-capable unidonts don't like DMR Tier 3.
 

Mike-KC8OWL

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Hooligan - I'll post my results here once I am more confident I have everything - I was tracking it but did have some gaps occasionally. I have yet to be able to get an LCN for 937.250. Other results match what was posted above. I'm going to go back and let LCN Finder run again using the entire set of (output) freqs from the ULS page tonight.

937.25000000
937.71250000
937.73750000
938.15000000
938.16250000
938.21250000
938.22500000
938.23750000
 

diskmonger

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I'm not sure all of those licensed frequencies are actually being used on the DMR system. I recorded every licensed frequency for a period of 24 hours and only heard activity on the following:

937.7125 CC5 TS 1/2 LCN 2217
937.7375 CC5 TS 1/2 LCN 2219
938.1500 CC5 TS 1/2 LCN 2252
938.2125 CC3 TS 1/2 LCN 2257
938.2250 CC3 TS 1/2 LCN 2258

I supposed it's possible the system never got busy enough to use all the frequencies, but it seemed there was enough activity I would have heard something in that time period.
 

Mike-KC8OWL

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Diskmonger - totally agree.

I ran it from 7PM last night until about 10AM today and have the following LCNs. Seems 8.1625 and 8.2215 are not in use (yet). Also seems like all the traffic is not on this system (yet). I'm going to track the TGs for a while and see what I can confirm.


freq LCN
-------- ----------
0937.250000 1395
0937.712500 2217
0937.737500 2219
0938.150000 2252
0938.162500 0
0938.212500 0
0938.225000 2161
0938.237500 2424
 

Mike-KC8OWL

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Maybe someone else can help verify this. I am monitoring MGM Tier 3 system on the SDS100 and it appears to be tracking okay with the LCNs I posted above but voice traffic is low - definitely not as busy as MGM should be if everyone was on that system.

But I am also monitoring all the freqs on my 996P2 in CONV mode / digital audio / CC5. 937.7125 and 937.7375 appear to be in use as stand alone frequencies too. I can't get a good feel for who is using it yet (what service at MGM).

Anyone else notice the same?
 
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