Las Vegas OpenSky?

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N_Jay

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It is rare to see any significant use of a new radio system by the end users (uniformed officers) prior to system acceptance due to contractual reasons.

Not seeing a pre-accepted system used is not an indication of the acceptance process going well or poorly.
 

SCPD

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Were you monitoring the OpenSky patch on an analog frequency? If so that probably explains the horrible audio. The same thing happens when P25 digital is patched into an analog channel... its like fingers down a chalkboard.

San Bernardino County moving to Open Sky would be a disaster.
Yes I was monitoring the test on VHF analog radio
 
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SCPD

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It is rare to see any significant use of a new radio system by the end users (uniformed officers) prior to system acceptance due to contractual reasons.

Not seeing a pre-accepted system used is not an indication of the acceptance process going well or poorly.
I'm not sure what the Sam unit was doing with the OpenSky radio. I suspect it was being used in a training excercise with marshal units and Air 5 near the new gun range in north Las Vegas.
 
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eraweeb

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I have asked this question before and never got an answer. I hope no one minds me asking it again, but someone out there must have the answer!

We all know that the media, (newspapers, radio, TV) rely heavily on scanners to help them gather information for their news and traffic departments. What will they do when Metro goes Open Sky? Do they get a pass and have the ability to purchase equipment to monitor or do they become privvy to certain resources to gain this information or what?

Surely RR has members who work for local media outlets. What are your company's contingency plans for gathering information once this new system is in place?

One more thing. Isn't it very redundant to call this system OPEN sky? Open to what?
 
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N_Jay

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It depends on what they ask for and what LV Metro offers up.

It is solved (or not solved) lots of different ways.
 

SCPD

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I have asked this question before and never got an answer. I hope no one minds me asking it again, but someone out there must have the answer!

We all know that the media, (newspapers, radio, TV) rely heavily on scanners to help them gather information for their news and traffic departments. What will they do when Metro goes Open Sky? Do they get a pass and have the ability to purchase equipment to monitor or do they become privvy to certain resources to gain this information or what?

Surely RR has members who work for local media outlets. What are your company's contingency plans for gathering information once this new system is in place?

One more thing. Isn't it very redundant to call this system OPEN sky? Open to what?
Some where I read LVMPD will not issue radios to the media. Media would have access to a secure website listing most police calls. Sorry can't remember where I seen this or how reliable the source
 

eraweeb

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Some where I read LVMPD will not issue radios to the media. Media would have access to a secure website listing most police calls. Sorry can't remember where I seen this or how reliable the source


I guess I’m not surprised that Metro is shutting out the Media too. Let’s face it; the only reason that they ever wanted that expensive system is so they can operate in the dark.

On Metro’s web site the Sheriff says that he has two goals that he wants to accomplish. One is to initiate timely and open communication, and the second is to effectively use innovation and technology. Excuse me, but do you really initiate open communication by switching to a radio system that absolutely no one else can hear? I have also heard the favorite buzz word “interoperability” thrown around loosely whenever the radio system is discussed. Why should they pretend to care about that when it is evident that they don’t intend to share this system with any other entity? Metro is determined to have its own private radio system and they don’t intend to let anybody else use it or hear it and they don’t care how much it costs!

A few months’s ago when the Sheriff was being interviewed on KXNT radio, a caller asked him why the web site no longer offers an audio feed for citizens to listen to. For a long time it was featured prominently on the site. I think that you and I as well as that caller already know the answer to that question, but the Sheriff’s answer was that he didn’t know anything about it and he never even knew it was there.

On another part of the web site, he addresses the technology issue by saying it was necessary to “upgrade” the radio system in order to “reduce operational costs.” I’d love to see the fuzzy math on that one! Just how do you reduce costs by trashing a perfectly good working system and replacing it with a glitzy multi-million dollar project? I would also have to question the timing aspect. Yes, I know that the system has been in the planning stages for a while, but could there ever be a worse time to do this than at a time when the state, county and city are all suffering from massive budget shortfalls?

And let’s not forget exactly where the money is coming from. If you don’t know then just go look in the mirror! At a time when unemployment is over 10% and Vegas is the foreclosure capital of the world, many of us taxpayers are grappling with the severity of just trying to feed our families and keep a roof over our head.

Another thing that concerns me is all the recent incidents where police officers broke the rules or broke the law resulting in some horrendous accidents and even death. In almost every case, wrongdoing by the officers was immediately denied… at least until enough facts emerged to the contrary and then the wrongdoing was admitted. What happens when details and facts concerning these kinds of incidents are no longer public knowledge? Will the powers that be still be inclined to admit wrongdoing or will it be way too convenient to spin the story to a more comfortable conclusion?

In case you are wondering, I am speaking somewhat from experience now. Many years ago I lived in a small Midwestern town. The County Sheriff’s department there one day outfitted all of the Police cars with “scramblers.” These were simple voice inversion units but at the time they probably seemed pretty high tech. Also, the average citizen was pretty naïve about electronics at the time. Being a Ham, I had enough knowledge to construct a variable oscillator in order to un-scramble those Police scramblers! I witnessed an amazing transformation taking place in just a very short period of time!

At first they used the scramblers sparingly and only for sensitive communications. As they became more comfortable with them they began using them more often, and not just for sensitive transmissions, but also for telling jokes, using questionable language, and even making fun of people at crime scenes, etc. It became very clear to me that since they “thought” that the general public wasn’t listening, this empowered them to abuse the situation more and more as time went on. It was a simple case of human nature!

Please don’t get me wrong. I wholeheartedly respect and support our Police, Firefighters, EMS and all the other first responders out there. However, this isn’t a matter of just emotional opinion. This is a matter of sheer common sense! In closing all I can say is I hope that all those concerned enjoy playing with their expensive new toys. Talk about a kid in a candy store! Speaking of toys… my kids would probably like to get one or two for Christmas. Anybody know where I can get a job?
 

BCFlash

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I completely agree with your sentiments. By the way, your description of the midwestern sheriff's dept. years ago could've been Boone County, IL, I think they tried the inversion scramblers for awhile. More recently I think they were one of the first local agencies to go to the State Police's digital system.
 

eraweeb

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Thanks BCFlash, for your support. No, the county wasn’t Boone, but man are you close! Unfortunately there is a reason why I don’t want to divulge the exact county.

Once again, my opinion on this matter in no way changes my respect and support for our Police and Fire departments. It’s just that when a department goes out of its way to hide their day to day activities from its citizens, how can we help but be suspicious? I honestly think that sometimes they completely forget that they are supposed to be “Public Servants!” At a time in our history when OUR privacy rights increasingly keep coming under attack, it seems that those in authority keep demanding that their rights be increased.

It is a well known fact that every one of our emails, phone calls, text messages, etc. can be accessed and scrutinized by almost any Government Agency including Law Enforcement for little or no reasonable cause. Your new cell phone now has a built-in GPS. Add to that the fact that no matter where we go or what we do these days we are more than likely being photographed, videotaped or recorded and you start to realize that little by little we are losing all of our rights to privacy without our consent and our knowledge.

No, I don’t have a case of “Big Brother Conspiracy Theories” I’m just being realistic. I swear that I’m not just paranoid.

HOWEVER… I wouldn’t be surprised if every single member of RR has already been added to a database of persons who “Deliberately and routinely monitor electronic communications, and exchange data with other members, for the sole purpose of eavesdropping on, and reporting thereof, the whereabouts and activities of Government agents and Law Enforcement officials. These activities which they disguise as a harmless “hobby” are possibly and probably subversive in nature and counterproductive to the goals and directives of the New World Order!”

Don’t laugh… I’m sure Alex Jones will pick up on this immediately. The very next time that you tune in one of your favorite clandestine shortwave stations you may hear the rumor that those new digital scanners have been secretly modified to “reverse receive” everything around them!

And in the next logical progression of this scenario you will get a Yahoo email that says, “Be careful what you say while you are scanning. My cousin works with a guy who has a babysitter who knew someone that this happened to. I just checked it out on Snopes and its true! Please forward this to 287 of your closest friends in the next 5 minutes. Thank you!
 

SCPD

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Anybody know where I can get a job?

My wife and I are also members of that 10% + group, although we are probably not included in the actual numbers. I had to retire early due to health reasons with a substantial reduction in my annuity. My wife was laid off from the municipal job she had. She was forced to take an early retirement at a substantial penalty to the annuity we expected. We can't live on the annuity checks we receive each month. As a result we have both been looking for work for almost a year.

Due to these situations we are likely not included in the unemployment rate. That 10% number is likely higher as those forced to take early retirements probably fall under the radar. The numbers of people forced into early retirements is probably huge.

I'm not too concerned personally about Las Vegas going to an OpenSky system since we can't afford to travel anymore, not that Las Vegas has ever been high on our list to visit. We don't gamble and dislike the glitz. For those of you who live there and have been listening to Metro on VHF-High for more than 35 years now the implementation of OpenSky has to be a major disappointment.

If the economy doesn't pick up in Las Vegas maybe we won't have to fight the plan to drain the north state and portions of eastern California to water Las Vegas. I don't know why we should mind, given how well Las Vegas conserves water and all.
 
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marcotor

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Once again, my opinion on this matter in no way changes my respect and support for our Police and Fire departments. It’s just that when a department goes out of its way to hide their day to day activities from its citizens, how can we help but be suspicious?

You'd be surprised some of the things (no)one hears on the Orange County (CA) System.

When I worked at the beach a few years ago, the PD had a couple of foot-beat officers who I was friendly with from a previous job, who got some playful ribbing from me on the encrypted system. I would hear the traffic on their HT's, and after asking about it, was told "well, no one is listening but us, so it's a lot looser than the old days". These cops were pros, and were quite embarrassed at the language being used - this was not on a dispatch channel, but a task force TG. I guess that is what the mute button is for.

I would suppose there is some kind of mandate that all traffic be archived for a certain period of time. I recall some LAPD officers getting reprimanded over (what they thought were) private messages sent across their MDT's - they found out it wasn't so private when a judge issued a subponea for the traffic.

We can look forward to the "Homeland Security" card being played as radio service providers push encryption, OpenSky, etc on their customers. I think there is good reason sometimes for secure comms, altho I doubt dispatching a deputy to get a cat out of the road is a vital National Security operation. There is no reason to not add it, these companies spent lots of R&D money to make it available to their customers, and they want a return on that - so the sales people and public officials just say 'Vital to Homeland Security" in the press releases and away we go.

I fully understand the men and women who work in LE do a sometimes thankless job, that most people would never want, and human nature is exactly that - human nature. I am sure we all say things on our cell phones and in e-mails that we would never want someone broadcasting to the world.

just obo - one bozo's opinion ;)
 

christenorio

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The open sky digital radio system could put the safety of the citizens and police officers in jeopardy
 

crazynova

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I'm new around here and don't know too much about radios, so bear with me. LVMPD is not switching to OpenSky to be in the dark and not be able to be scanned. They are switching because they only have 1 channel left on the current VHF system they use and plan to open up at least 3 new area command in the next couple of years, meaning they will son outgrow the radio system.

As for implementing it, Sergeants have been on it for at least 6 months now and the testing has apparently gone very well since Cadets and PSRs will be going to it in the next couple of weeks. I have heard they have been putting new towers up around the county and doing a lo of work on existing towers for the new system, so it is very much underway and from what I've heard, less than a year away from full implementation.
 

mdickerson17

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Just an update, I heard testing of opensky on metros tac-1 and tac-2 last night! They were testing the vhf and uhf opensky handhelds but i could still here everything the said loud and clear? Why is that? Also it says earlyer in this thread that they were going to use 700mhz freq's so why test vhf as well as uhf? I dont really know too much about opensky other than you cant scan it! Is there anyone that can clarify whats going on? I'd appreciate it..............
 

SCPD

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I'm new around here and don't know too much about radios, so bear with me. LVMPD is not switching to OpenSky to be in the dark and not be able to be scanned. They are switching because they only have 1 channel left on the current VHF system they use and plan to open up at least 3 new area command in the next couple of years, meaning they will son outgrow the radio system.

As for implementing it, Sergeants have been on it for at least 6 months now and the testing has apparently gone very well since Cadets and PSRs will be going to it in the next couple of weeks. I have heard they have been putting new towers up around the county and doing a lo of work on existing towers for the new system, so it is very much underway and from what I've heard, less than a year away from full implementation.

Why did'nt LVMPD move to the NSRS - Nevada Shared Radio System or SNACC system just like NLVPD ? it just don't make sense. It would of cost them a quarter then building from scratch

As for "Sergeants" using OpenSky radios. I only seen OS portable radios used in Bolden and North West districts and at the range.

Testing is still ongoing on two tac channels this week. The test patching I heard sounded better this week then this summer.
 

mdickerson17

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If they only have 1 channel left why don't the just use different dpl's or pl's? That's what they did with 1 of there laughlin channels that is also used as south east dispach in vegas. I just can't believe there switching to opensky! Especially with what happend in nyc and everyone else that's used it! Sad day for vegas...........
 

Baker845

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I think it would be big wast money to built Open Sky system when there 800 mhz system all ready in use in Las Vegas by Fire and county. Wouldnt take much for PD to get on 800 mhz system in use now.Odd..
 
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jpryor

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What is the latest status on OpenSky vs VHF usage? Any confirmed new system activity in the Downtown, Strip, Convention Center or Airport areas? I'll be in Vegas the first week of January, just hoping VHF will still be active for most operations in those areas.
 
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