Lawrence Livermore Lab's trunked system details

Status
Not open for further replies.

WayneH

Forums Veteran
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7,543
Location
Your master site
[Due to the loss of this info in the database, I bring you this...]

The Lawrence Livermore National Lab operates a Motorola 3.x SmartZone system (3600). All transmissions are digital only [IMBE]. The system does employ encryption but it is commonly used on the complex security channels (eg., 720, 736, 752, and 80). Site security is normally encrypted but will go clear once in a blue moon; usually to do roll calls.

The network is comprised of six sites not including the backup sites which are duplicates of the primary sites. They are for failures of the primary sites. Each site is linked via microwave forming a ring. This is for redundancy in the event of "service disruption." (Below, the site numbers in brackets are the secondarys)

The main site is located south of Sandia near Tesla Road. The next site is "Site 300." Site 300 is where they conduct explosive testing. To get to Site 300 you take Tesla Rd into the hills as if you were going to I580 or Tracy. The Lab system can be heard throughout Livermore and parts of Pleasanton. Site 300 is tough to receive though certain areas such as at the top of the Altamont Pass or in the vicinity of Camino Diablo & Los Vaqueros Rd. These two sites are the main traffic sites and are where most of the activity occurs. All sites are Quantar IntelliRepeaters.

There are four outlying sites with two using SmartZone's "Voice On Control" (VOC). VOC allows the control channel to become a voice channel temporarily; once the voice call is completed the channel reverts back to control. VOC is only used for low activity fill-in sites due to its nature. The two VOC fill-in sites are Crane Ridge, which is off Mines Rd, and one other site I have yet to identify the location for. It is most easily heard in the Altamont/Tracy area. Crane Ridge and the unidentified site are two channel VOC sites. Mt Diablo, which was once a single channel VOC site, is easily heard everywhere as it is located at the Navy Communications site on the West side of the mountain. Crane Ridge can be heard throughout Livermore and into the hills south of it. Since the three of these sites are low capacity sites their activity is restricted to specific talkgroups with higher importance. Additionally the radios are programmed with the Lab or Site 300 as the preferred sites so as soon as they can receive either they will roam off. Mt Diablo is actually a rather quiet site. Sometimes a stray electrician, security, or fire radio makes its way over causing some activity.

If you choose to listen to the Lab site you won't find much interesting activity but it's the site primarily used for Lab Fire if that's your interest. In addition to Lab Fire you have their security, encrypted of course, the shuttle and escort people, facilities, project management, and individuals that call themselves what sounds like WAHOO##. They seem to be related to Fire admin in that they do a lot of inspection related to hazmat and fire prevention. The people that sound like project management are one of the slim few who use private call (radio-to-radio or what Uniden stupidly named "I-call"). Outside of normal business hours the system is dead (excluding Security). I have yet to listen to Site 300 for long periods of time but it is quite busy with traffic which is NOT repeated on the Lab site. If you are looking for something interesting Site 300 would probably be your best bet.

Base: 406MHz
Spacing: 12.5kHz
Offset: 380

Site 1[2]
LAB
406.1625d
406.3625a
406.5625a
406.9875a
407.5875
407.9500
408.3625
408.5875
409.5875
410.5625

Site 3[4]
Site 300
406.1875d
406.7875a
407.3500
407.7875
408.5500
409.4250
409.6375

Site 5
Mt Diablo
407.5500d
410.3500a

Site 6
Lawrence Berkeley Lab
Neigh: 5, 7
406.1500d
406.9750a
408.3875
407.8625

Site 7 [VOC]
Crane Ridge
407.3875d
408.9625a

Site 8 [VOC]
Tracy Area
407.1875d
407.9875a

Verified Talkgroups:
128__Encrypted ATG for Site Security
496__Lab Fire 1
512__Lab Fire 2
528__Lab Fire 3
544__Lab Fire 4
560__Lab Fire 5
576__Lab Fire 6
640__Facility equipment alarms
688__Escorts; Sierra Units
704__Electricians
720__Site Security Dispatch (Encrypted)
736__Site Security Tac 1 (Encrypted)
752__Site Security Tac 2 (Encrypted)
960__Shuttle Service; India Units
1008__Fire Admin; Wahoo units
1040__ATG for announcing 300's range as active or not

Site 300 TGs:
32
800
1392
1408
1456
1552
1632__Fire Prevention Related
1888

LBL TGs:
1712__I.T.
1920
1984__Security
2032__Facilities
2048__Facilities
2064__Facilities
2096__Facilities

IIRC, Project management people were in the 1100s and/or 1500-1600s. They're more active on private calls.

Last note: ATGs are used frequently during the day by Lab Dispatch. Fire Dispatches are MultiSelects a majority of the time so the ID the dispatch goes out over can vary. Sometimes it's Fire 1, or 2 or Fire Admin.

I'll update this as needed. I've got an article somewhere that talks a bit about the beginning of the system.

Lets all thank Clarence, the system's manager, for basically spurring me to make this information available. Thanks Clarence! :twisted:
 
Last edited:

WayneH

Forums Veteran
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7,543
Location
Your master site
I wanted to post an update on this system as I've been notified of a site addition and in the event noticed some changes. A new site (Site 6) has been built which I'll let the original finder take credit for if he wants to post up. Outside of the new site Mt Diablo has had VOC turned off and is announcing an alternate control channel of 410.3500. I'm going to let TREPORT run on it for a while to see what pops up.

Also, the system is probably version 4.1 now as everyone seems to be upgrading to that. Anyone know how to tell the difference when the system is ASTRO only?

-Wayne
 

inigo88

California DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
2,024
Location
San Diego, CA
Thanks Wayne, I found site 6 this afternoon searching around the 406-407 band for Travis AFB's system from the north bay.

Site 6 Control Channel: 406.15 MHz (sys ID: 5434)

It comes in even better than Mt Diablo's (site 5) control channel from the north bay and I'm seriously betting it's located on top of Big Rock Ridge in Novato (possibly on the same site as Marin County's MERA TRS East Zone). It's for sure NOT Voice Over Net, as I've heard talkgroups on at least two other frequencies.

EDIT: Sounds like they're just bringing this system online. Here are the TGs I've heard, all seem to be new:

1920 - Building Managers
2000 - Technicians
2020 - Technicians
63120 - Radio Service (or at least them testing the TG)

With such an interesting system now booming across the bay area with this new site, I think it's worth a look. :twisted: I hope others can check it out and post their findings here.

-inigo88
 

WayneH

Forums Veteran
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7,543
Location
Your master site
I listened to Site 6 the other day and tried to get an idea of its coverage, from the Oakland area, based on listening to the MERA sites. It definitely seems like it's coming from a site near an East Zone site. All the little sweet spots I know for getting MERA in Hayward usually worked for Site 6. I can't recall where Big Rock is but I'm pretty sure it's not Mount Tam.

I added the two voice freqs to the main post above, at least from what I recall since I don't have my notes. The .8625 one is a rough memory. Most of the traffic was facilities related around the 20xx range, then what seemed like some security types on 1984. Wherever they are it seems like a big place the way they referred to buildings. Definitely not stuff on the Lab property. Unfortunately nothing that made sense.

I'm going to let TREPORT run on it when I get a chance. Should get use dialed in.

-Wayne
 

ECPD279

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 9, 2002
Messages
815
Location
Bay Area, CA
I DF'ed site 6 today and I'm about 95% sure it's on the new tower at the Lawrence Berkeley Lab. The doppler was getting lots of multipath, but when I could get a steady tone it pretty much pointed towards Berkeley. Also, I went up Centennial Dr. behind the lab and was able to hear the CC full quieting with no antenna.

It is definitely not on Big Rock though.

Also, have you guys had any issues using the same parameters as the rest of LLNL? I have had this thing on all day and haven't heard a single transmission.
 

WayneH

Forums Veteran
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7,543
Location
Your master site
LOL I never did think of Berkeley. I was hoping the DOE finally was going with their plan to provide radio services to other Feds for the Bay Area. Oh well.

I'll drive over Monday and snoop around. Should be up on the hill as they'd get their MW link from their Diablo site.

I don't have any tracking issues. The bandplan wouldn't be any different since the freqs used fall within the other site's.

-Wayne
 

selgaran

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Messages
398
Location
CM98dn
ECPD279 said:
The doppler was getting lots of multipath, but when I could get a steady tone it pretty much pointed towards Berkeley.

Which doppler unit are you using?
 

ECPD279

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 9, 2002
Messages
815
Location
Bay Area, CA
wayne_h said:
LOL I never did think of Berkeley. I was hoping the DOE finally was going with their plan to provide radio services to other Feds for the Bay Area. Oh well.

I'll drive over Monday and snoop around. Should be up on the hill as they'd get their MW link from their Diablo site.

I don't have any tracking issues. The bandplan wouldn't be any different since the freqs used fall within the other site's.

-Wayne

The new tower is readily visible from Centennial. If you come down from Grizzly Peak, just past the Lawrence Hall of Science you can see it to the right as soon as you clear the trees. I noticed it a few weeks ago and have wondered what was on it since. Now I guess I know!

I have the new site plugged into the same bank as the others, and I'm getting a CC, but still no voice. I get the other sites just fine when in range. If you're hearing traffic on site 6, I'm dumbfounded.
 

inigo88

California DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
2,024
Location
San Diego, CA
I'm definitely getting voice traffic on my Pro-96, there's just almost none on this site. Try letting scanrec sit on it if you have that program and then review the log (I need to try this myself I haven't yet). Berkeley might make more sense, it's really surprising if that's where the transmitter is because I get their CC almost identically well to the MERA East Zone on Big Rock Ridge (which is why I guessed that), and this site is only a few miles from me. Guess I have great line of site with this Berkeley antenna!
 

ECPD279

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 9, 2002
Messages
815
Location
Bay Area, CA
I ran T4Win and it came up with some TG's and channels, but I'm still not hearing it. I'm totally dumbfounded here. It's in the same bank as the rest of LLNL, I'm hearing the other sites fine, and I'm getting a full scale signal on the CC. The only difference is that I only have the CC programmed for this site, and no voice freqs, but that shouldn't matter right?
 

ECPD279

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 9, 2002
Messages
815
Location
Bay Area, CA
Or maybe it does! I entered the voice freqs and now I am getting somewhere. I will say I am now 99% sure it is LBL, and 1920 is LBL Security. Funny thing about all this, I thought LBL was run by UC Berkeley, not DOE.
 

selgaran

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Messages
398
Location
CM98dn
ECPD279 said:
Ramsey DDF-1

Check. I'll have to dig mine out of the garage and give it a try on 800...I've got the 1999 version from QST. What spacing distance are you using for the antennas?
 

WayneH

Forums Veteran
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7,543
Location
Your master site
ECPD279 said:
Or maybe it does! I entered the voice freqs and now I am getting somewhere. I will say I am now 99% sure it is LBL, and 1920 is LBL Security. Funny thing about all this, I thought LBL was run by UC Berkeley, not DOE.
Sid, which scanner are you using? Uniden or PRO there shouldn't be anything different in tracking abilities (like something special about the CC). If you're using a PRO maybe it's the multiple CC exploit not configed correctly for 6's CC. :?:

I'm going to drive to the site and take some photos Monday, if I get time. I should be able to get some of the other voice channels searching for the short test keyup that's common to SZ freqs.

-Wayne
 

ECPD279

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 9, 2002
Messages
815
Location
Bay Area, CA
wayne_h said:
ECPD279 said:
Or maybe it does! I entered the voice freqs and now I am getting somewhere. I will say I am now 99% sure it is LBL, and 1920 is LBL Security. Funny thing about all this, I thought LBL was run by UC Berkeley, not DOE.
Sid, which scanner are you using? Uniden or PRO there shouldn't be anything different in tracking abilities (like something special about the CC). If you're using a PRO maybe it's the multiple CC exploit not configed correctly for 6's CC. :?:

I'm going to drive to the site and take some photos Monday, if I get time. I should be able to get some of the other voice channels searching for the short test keyup that's common to SZ freqs.

-Wayne

I use a BC-796 for digital. After Saturday night I am again getting nothing.

I also thought about shooting some pics, but the wife had the digital this weekend. Let me know how it turns out.

selgaran said:
Check. I'll have to dig mine out of the garage and give it a try on 800...I've got the 1999 version from QST. What spacing distance are you using for the antennas?

I have mag mount, telescoping antennas. I usually go with slightly less than 1/4 wavelength spacing.
 

WayneH

Forums Veteran
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7,543
Location
Your master site
I visited the site the other day and can second Sid on this one. Had the antenna off with the attenuator on and it was coming in. The tower itself is on the LBL property so I couldn't get close as the place is controlled access (though you can walk to the site; try finding parking though!). The tower is the same tower UC Berkeley's trunked system is on.

I had a Uniden scanner with me and had no trouble receiving the system though it took some manual digital adjustment to keep it staying clear.

-Wayne
 

WayneH

Forums Veteran
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7,543
Location
Your master site
I'm going to bump the cobwebs off this post since the system will now be available in the database. I'll start updating the DB when I get the time.

One thing I wanted to mention is that Site 3/4 which is called Site 300, and is supposedly at Site 300, seems to come in loud and clear (20dB attenuated) in Stockton and that general area now. I haven't been near 300 lately but am wondering if they moved things around. I'm pretty sure the Tracy Defense Depot is using Site 3/4.


ETA: Updated the database.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top