Lincoln/Lancaster County Scanner Question

[sshield]

I recently decided to get back into listening to the scanner after a few year hiatus and am trying to reprogram my scanner for the new radio system. So far I've had no luck. I have a Radio Shack Pro 106 scanner and have a couple of theories of what might be wrong but I am hoping someone more knowledgeable can help me out.

Possibility number one is that despite being listed as a P25 Phase 1 system here: Nebraska State Radio System Trunking System, Statewide, Nebraska - Scanner Frequencies (radioreference.com) it is actually a P25 Phase 2 system that the Pro 106 can't scan. I saw several mentions of the system being capable of including a mix of phase 1 and phase 2 talkgroups in this thread (New Lincoln / Lancaster County P25 system | RadioReference.com Forums ) but nothing definitive about if the system was utilizing phase 1 phase 2 or a mix.

A second possibility is that the Pro 106 is having trouble with the simulcast system. I've read mixed reviews about Pro 106 and simulcast systems, assuming that it is not operating as a phase 2 system has anyone had any luck using the Pro 106 in Lincoln?

Of course there is also the possibility I have it programed wrong, but I am guessing its either a phase 2 system, or an issue the Pro 106 receiving the simulcast transmissions. Any insight would be much appreciated!

 

[tvengr]

Disregard.

 

[tvengr]

Looking at the database, it appears that Lancaster County Fire is presently using conventional frequencies. The Sheriff is migrating to the NE Statewide Radio System. Lincoln Police is encrypted and cannot be received by any scanner. Lincoln Fire is clear to receive. The statewide system is P25 Phase I which your scanner can receive. The Lincoln-Lancaster Co site is a 3 site simulcast system which may give you receive problems with your scanner. The Lincoln North and South sites will be OK. What programming software are you using? If you have ARC500 or Win500, I can help with the programming. If you attach your ARC500 or Win500 programming file, I can check it for problems. You will have to right click on the file and Send to Compressed (zipped) folder to be able to attach it. Click on Attach files and Open the zipped file.

 

[IrvingtonVFD43]

Pro 106 has a tough time digesting simulcast systems overall, unless you are near a site or have a directional antenna pointed at the site. ORION over in the Omaha area is another simulcast system, which I have a bear of a time listening to when I am in Omaha. Sometimes turning on the attenuation (att button) will help. I was in the Denver area recently and was listening to FRCC, a 700mhz simulcast system and needed to apply attenuation at times, but the site was only a couple miles away from my relative's house.

 

[NebraskaCoder]

For the simulcast systems, if you're not scanning but instead just listening, invest in a Unication G4 or G5 (I have two G5s). All the problems go away and you only have a few hiccups that any subscriber radio would.

 

[sshield]

Thank you all for your replies. I should have been more clear in my original post but I most interested in the Lincoln Fire traffic on the statewide system. Unfortunately, any upgrade in scanner is out of the question in the immediate future, so I'll just have to do the best with what I have. I'll try adding attenuation as well as seeing if I can pick either the north or south sites. In the meantime I've attached the current version of my win500 file, I've tried a couple variations of settings, but this is what I have programmed in the scanner currently.

 

[tvengr]

Your control channel and alternate frequencies are incorrect. You can set the trunking tables to default with a P25 system. P25 Auto will take care of the tables. You can get rid of the wildcard. Otherwise, you will hear everything on the system. This is what you should have:

854.6875​

856.2125​

856.4625​

859.7125​

 

[Riresj]

You will need a Phase II Scanner to monitor Lincoln Fire. You can also monitor most Lincoln Fire radio traffic using a variety of smartphone scanner apps.

 

[tvengr]

You will need a Phase II Scanner to monitor Lincoln Fire.

If you are referring to the Nebraska State Radio System, the database shows everything is Phase I. If that is not the system, which system are they using, other than the old EDACS system?

 

[sshield]

Your control channel and alternate frequencies are incorrect. You can set the trunking tables to default with a P25 system. P25 Auto will take care of the tables. You can get rid of the wildcard. Otherwise, you will hear everything on the system.

I fixed the frequencies, I am not sure what you are referring to by the wildcards, I believe I only had the specific talkgroups I was interested in enabled and nothing wildcarded. However, even after changing the frequencies I still am not receiving anything.

If you are referring to the Nebraska State Radio System, the database shows everything is Phase I. If that is not the system, which system are they using, other than the old EDACS system?

This is where I am confused as well, I can confirm the LFR isn't using EDACS anymore, I haven't heard any traffic on there for a few years.

 

[xmo]

The EDACS system is long gone. They bought state of the art P25 technology to replace it.

The Lincoln / Lancaster County 800 system is connected to the state's DSR core. That makes their simulcast system a "site" on the state system.

They can have phase 2 talkgroups to achieve spectrum efficiency and it doesn't matter if the state's VHF sites are exclusively phase one or transitioning to phase 2 with dual mode.

Talkgroups on the Lancaster site - like fire talkgroups - can be phase 2 and valid on only their site or they can have talkgroups like capitol security that are valid on both 800 and VHF so troopers can take advantage of the Lancaster County coverage footprint and stay on their primary dispatch.

 

[tvengr]

If Lincoln Fire is using Phase 2, that should be submitted to the database.

 

[xmo]

The database needs a whole lot of updating. It's full of references to the EDACS system and that's been gone for a long time.

There are references to agencies transitioning to the state system but that's not really accurate. Lancaster owns their entire system. They are simply connected to the state's core for cost saving and enhanced interoperability.

The new system came up with a lot of full-time encryption.

Maybe nobody in Lancaster county bought a new scanner so there's no one listening to send in updates

 

[xmo]

I believe that the new system has basically the same coverage as the EDACS system had. Lancaster is a pretty big county so solid 800 coverage everywhere would be really expensive.

That probably accounts for the rural fire agencies all being on conventional 800 repeaters. Being on the same band means some users can have both Lincoln talkgroups and rural frequencies without the expense of multi-band radios.

On the other hand, a countywide user like the sheriff can have multi-band radios. With Lincoln and the state being connected to a common core, the sheriff can operate seamlessly on either the Lincoln 800 coverage or the state's VHF coverage.

 

[cellphone]

The database needs a whole lot of updating. It's full of references to the EDACS system and that's been gone for a long time.

Please submit updates. If you can confirm the EDACS system is offline, I will mark it deprecated and remove references.

What about all the public works talkgroups from the old system. Are these departments on the SRS?

 

[Riresj]

+1 to everything @xmo has said. City of Lincoln is 800 Phase II-only island connected to a sea of VHF Phase I only. Interoperability is only possible on State (non-Lincoln) groups either with V8 radios and/or transcode services. VHF Phase II is very improbable. State is wide area, low capacity outdoor mobile coverage. City of Lincoln is small-cell, high capacity, indoor (read portable) coverage. Other than that, they're pretty much the same. Kind regards making that fit into the RR Database schema

 

[xmo]

P25 systems keep adding features as time goes by. A talkgroup on an 800 phase two site can also be a valid talkgroup on a VHF phase one site, but doing so requires the 800 talkgroup to be dynamic dual mode - in other words, the talkgroup stays phase two until there is a unit affiliated to the talkgroup on the VHF site at which time the 800 talkgroup reverts to phase one.

That is - unless the dynamic transcoder feature has been implemented in the core - in which case the 800 side stays phase two which preserves spectrum efficiency. Configuration of these systems and the user radios is incredibly complex. Almost anything you can think of is possible but everybody can't have everything without consequences.

All these capabilities make monitoring interesting - and sometimes hard to understand how things work.

The new system going into Kearney / Buffalo county will be similar to Lincoln / Lancaster in some respects with there being a new 800 system owned by the county and connected to the state's core.

System cores are very expensive - millions of dollars for a redundant high capacity DSR M3 system. Sharing offers cost savings to the connected systems and adds interoperability capabilities.

It does present a database challenge because it isn't accurate to say that Lancaster (or Buffalo) is "on" the SRS.

 

[cellphone]

It does present a database challenge because it isn't accurate to say that Lancaster (or Buffalo) is "on" the SRS.

Radio Reference lists any sites that share the same core as the same system since talkgroups can technically be used across any site on the system if the system admins allow. This is per Radio Reference policy. Radio Reference does not distinguish site ownership within systems. It is common for many systems across the country to share cores, and have sites owned by different agencies. From a scanner perspective, these sites that share the came core are part of the same system.