LMRN Technical Data Discussion

[west-pac]

Can someone help identify what I'm seeing on DSD+? I'm in central Indiana, USA, and I believe I'm receiving a site from the FleetNet Ontario Gov't Zone 1 system; but it's P25, not Motorola type II.

The info I have:
WACN: BEE00
System: AD9
Site: 1.17
NAC: AD7
CC: 142.665
ACC/SCC: 142.185
ACC/SCC: 142.500
ACC/SCC: 142.905
Neighbor: 1.16 CC: 142.320
Neighbor: 1.20 CC: 142.260

The TGs I've seen are 517, and 520.

I searched for the AD9 system, but came up with no results. Are these 4 Ontario zones switching to P25? The CC frequencies I received match the CC frequencies for the Zone 1 Motorola system for sites 16, 17, and 20.

 

[ve3ext]

Can someone help identify what I'm seeing on DSD+? I'm in central Indiana, USA, and I believe I'm receiving a site from the FleetNet Ontario Gov't Zone 1 system; but it's P25, not Motorola type II.

The info I have:
WACN: BEE00
System: AD9
Site: 1.17
NAC: AD7
CC: 142.665
ACC/SCC: 142.185
ACC/SCC: 142.500
ACC/SCC: 142.905
Neighbor: 1.16 CC: 142.320
Neighbor: 1.20 CC: 142.260

The TGs I've seen are 517, and 520.

I searched for the AD9 system, but came up with no results. Are these 4 Ontario zones switching to P25? The CC frequencies I received match the CC frequencies for the Zone 1 Motorola system for sites 16, 17, and 20.

I believe you are hearing the beginnings of a new P25 Ontariowide system to be used by all provincial agencies. Supposed to be fully encrypted.
I have recorded these control channels here in the Windsor Essex county area. The test bed for the new system.
I imagine a new thread will start to follow development of this system
Jerry VE3EXT

 

[mikewazowski]

What you posted matches the old FleetNet system so it most likely is the replacement system.

 

[west-pac]

I believe you are hearing the beginnings of a new P25 Ontariowide system to be used by all provincial agencies. Supposed to be fully encrypted.
I have recorded these control channels here in the Windsor Essex county area, the test bed for the new system.
I imagine a new thread will start to follow development of this system
Jerry VE3EXT

Both of those TGs (517 and 520) were encrypted.

 

[Enjoi19]

I started searching the TAFL... and someone feel free to correct me if I'm barking up the wrong trees here...

Punched in the control channel frequency found here. Came up with a listing that's active as of Oct 1st this year for Essex.

I see what looks like another site called Trafalgar that is licensed to be active the same day in a similar VHF range. Location is around the 401 / Sixth Line MTO station. I copied down the frequencies here if anyone in the area wants to try and see what comes up. Some do match fleetnet frequencies as shown above.

138.3450
138.6450
138.7350
138.9750
139.0500
142.1850
142.3650
142.6650
142.7550
142.9950
143.0700

Here's the account on the TAFL: TAFL Search Results

If I'm fully barking up the wrong tree on my data search here, let me know.

 

[ATCTech]

What's the Trafalgar frequency?

EDIT: Disregard - I see the list on the TAFL. There's no tower at that weigh scale however there is a Bell Mobility tower on the east side of 6th Line right next to it.

 

[Enjoi19]

In my continued browsing of the TAFL for LMRN, I see what looks like like a vehicle repeater system too? But it's in the 700 and 800 MHz range. Reference identifier comes up with FDVR Repeater in all of them.

TAFL Licence Details

Use this online tool to search for frequencies, locations, or licensees. Infomation comes from Industry Canada's database of frequency allocations.

tafl.mckie.ca

TAFL Licence Details

Use this online tool to search for frequencies, locations, or licensees. Infomation comes from Industry Canada's database of frequency allocations.

tafl.mckie.ca

TAFL Licence Details

Use this online tool to search for frequencies, locations, or licensees. Infomation comes from Industry Canada's database of frequency allocations.

tafl.mckie.ca

 

[ATCTech]

That's interesting. There was a TAFL update about 4 years ago that contained three 770 MHz band frequencies named "Bell Mobility Radio P25 Test" with the corresponding +30 MHz input frequencies as well. They disappeared in the next update. There was also a single 143 MHz P25 license for the Bell Mobility tower at 407 & 6th Line in Oakville which did in fact transmit a P25/P2 signal for a few weeks back then, silent since.

 

[mikewazowski]

FDVR would probably be a Fixed Digital Voice Repeater. Judging by the locations, I’m guessing it’s kind of like a BEAT repeater replacement.

 

[mciupa]

Just looking at the distance for this capture. Around 200 miles or 350 kilometres. Thanks for reporting this.




Since the system is live and testing, we might as well let the games begin.

Land Mobile Radio Network (South Zone) Trunking System, Multiple Locations, Ontario

Land Mobile Radio Network (South Zone) Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

 

[west-pac]

Just looking at the distance for this capture. Around 200 miles or 350 kilometres. Thanks for reporting this.

View attachment 94601


Since the system is live and testing, we might as well let the games begin.

Land Mobile Radio Network (South Zone) Trunking System, Multiple Locations, Ontario

Land Mobile Radio Network (South Zone) Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

Thank you. I measured it with Google Maps and it was around 175 miles line-of-sight from Windsor to my location. That's still a good distance. I believe my location is around 900 ft ASL, and my antenna is 25 ft AGL. I'm using a Comet CX-333 antenna.

There were a couple other voices channels I found in that 142.500-143.000Mhz range, the NACs were 2D1, and A1E, but I'm not sure if they are part of this system or not. The A1E NAC was associated with TG:1 with DES-OCF(?) encryption. Again, I'm not sure if these are associated with the Canadian system.

 

[Forts]

I think A1E is the NAC for Amherstburg PD, who use DES-OFB.

 

[mikewazowski]

The TGs I've seen are 517, and 520.

517 * 16 = 8272 1OPS05
520 * 16 = 8320 1OPS08

 

[IdleMonitor]

How are you seeing this information such as the talkgroups if it's encrypted? Or is this just found via an SDR application?

 

[Forts]

I'd imagine they will use a DVRS for the repeaters. Fully digital and supports encryption. Who knows which band though...

Back in the late summer we were seeing weird patches on the current system to 10xxx talkgroups. I'm wondering now if those were patches into the new system. From the sites that are now testing it looks like the new control channel can be found on the current sites alernate CC frequency.

 

[mciupa]

How are you seeing this information such as the talkgroups if it's encrypted? Or is this just found via an SDR application?

The original poster from Indiana saw this information via DSD+ software. Others in southwestern Ontario were also watching but did not come forward until this thread came up.

The P25 talkgroups are relative to the Motorola talkgroups by being divisible by 16. They were correlated that way.

 

[Muxlow]

Give this frequency a try 771.8813 listed as a DVRS to the MTO truck inspection stations (TIS)

 

[Muxlow]

Keep in mind the 700 MHz band used 6.25 kHz spacing so that's 771.88125 MHz to be deadly accurate. Site inputs are +30 MHz up there which would be 801.88125 in this case.

771.8813 / 801.8813 is right off their radio license. Listed as a FDVR. In service date of 2020-10-01

 

[ATCTech]

Rounding off the last digit isn't uncommon in the listings, but it's incorrect.

 

[Muxlow]

Radio testing today off Site 16 Chatham
TG 5 and TG 6 (BMR talkgroups)
Both groups were using Phase 2

Radio ID's of
15006
100084
790056