Local PD requests my feed be delayed :(

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gjhamilton

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Tell them tough s***. You are not breaking any laws and it sounds like they want to hide something.
That is exactly the attitude that is going to have things go encrypted. The Op stated that they were nice and not trying to throw their weight around, which cops tend to do times. Why not try and work with them? That has to be the most moronic statement I have ever read.


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APSN556

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An update to my situation. I have been involved in discussions with the Deputy Chief and Public Information Officer. My stance is to NOT fight the police on this, but rather embrace their concern. I am grateful that they approached me with their concerns as opposed to just flipping the switch to encrypt the entire network. They are already using P25 and have 1 encrypted channel that is used primary for tactical situations. Encrypting the other channels would be a breeze.

With that said, our days on Radio Reference/ Broadcastify are numbered. I either need to find a service that allows AT LEAST a 5 minute delay, or I host the feeds privately and make the feed password protected and available to a select few people. If we cannot delay the audio within the next couple weeks, and we continue to feed via Radio Reference/ Broadcastify, PD will encrypt. In all honestly, I don't blame them for this ultimatum. If there is anyone that I am upset with, its the rule makers here, on RR. Adding a delay OPTION is a no brainer. Make it an option. The feeds that are used by First Responders would still have the option to feed live. The feeds that risk being removed for the same reasons I face, would have the option to delay, thus providing the feed providers with a viable compromise to their respective agencies.
 

SCPD

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I agree. We need to see an option of 10-15 minutes in my opinion (but I'll still take 5 over nothing).
 

gjhamilton

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I think that is a very wise decision on your part. I applaud you for being reasonable.

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Nasby

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I agree. We need to see an option of 10-15 minutes in my opinion (but I'll still take 5 over nothing).
Don't worry about the delay, in a few years there won't be anything to broadcast anyway.
It will all be encrypted.
 

HopperD

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I'll admit that I don't run a feed but maybe you can find a software or hard solution. There are some software programs that will delay audio processed through your computer. There's also hardware audio processors. Might cost a little money but it's an option you may want to research.
 

SCPD

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I'll admit that I don't run a feed but maybe you can find a software or hard solution. There are some software programs that will delay audio processed through your computer. There's also hardware audio processors. Might cost a little money but it's an option you may want to research.
And that is against the broadcaster rules.

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Ensnared

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Bravo

An update to my situation. I have been involved in discussions with the Deputy Chief and Public Information Officer. My stance is to NOT fight the police on this, but rather embrace their concern. I am grateful that they approached me with their concerns as opposed to just flipping the switch to encrypt the entire network. They are already using P25 and have 1 encrypted channel that is used primary for tactical situations. Encrypting the other channels would be a breeze.

With that said, our days on Radio Reference/ Broadcastify are numbered. I either need to find a service that allows AT LEAST a 5 minute delay, or I host the feeds privately and make the feed password protected and available to a select few people. If we cannot delay the audio within the next couple weeks, and we continue to feed via Radio Reference/ Broadcastify, PD will encrypt. In all honestly, I don't blame them for this ultimatum. If there is anyone that I am upset with, its the rule makers here, on RR. Adding a delay OPTION is a no brainer. Make it an option. The feeds that are used by First Responders would still have the option to feed live. The feeds that risk being removed for the same reasons I face, would have the option to delay, thus providing the feed providers with a viable compromise to their respective agencies.
I find it promising that LE initiated a dialogue with you about their concerns. I also had a similar experience with Waco PD when they were migrating to a P25 trunking system. In this case, the PIO contacted me & walked me through the process of obtaining the data needed for RR DB submission. He told me that there would be limited encryption for obvious things like SWAT, Narcotics, & Tactical. He told me that they want the public to hear what they are faced with in their daily duties. I am very lucky to live in a scanner-friendly environment.

Again, I applaud your decision. Maybe this will set a precedence for other LE agencies. I don't know. But, I believe it is very important to have an open dialogue with LE.
 

crazyboy

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I find it rather interestinf that a business that formed around monitoring public safety communications would be so against the option of a delay if needed. Seems like a no brainer they will have one more feed and one less department encrypted.

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gjhamilton

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Maybe it uses more resources to implement a delay. But yes no feeds=no business.

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APSN556

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I find it rather interestinf that a business that formed around monitoring public safety communications would be so against the option of a delay if needed. Seems like a no brainer they will have one more feed and one less department encrypted.

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I agree. Maybe the owners anticipate the demise of of RR in the coming years? Hell... with the amount of money they have made off of it already, this demise might be welcomed? The money has been made, perhaps they look forward to the day when it no longer needs to be tended to. Bottom line is... if the owner(s) of RR had any interests in the life of our hobby, they would be doing whatever they could to make sure they DONT contribute to it's death. Telling departments we can delay the feed is an excellent compromise and a step in the right direction towards the life of our hobby.

I have yet to hear from anyone in the ranks here as to why a delay is not an option.
 

MississippiPI

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If the cops are concerned about safety and the criminals listening, why not encrypt a few channels? Here in Jackson when the old sheriff, who was also the JPD chief didn't want something said on the radio the supervisor said "go to Winchester" which means use cell phones


Be safe
 

APSN556

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If the cops are concerned about safety and the criminals listening, why not encrypt a few channels? Here in Jackson when the old sheriff, who was also the JPD chief didn't want something said on the radio the supervisor said "go to Winchester" which means use cell phones


Be safe
Most agencies already use the method you described above. The problem however is on the initial dispatch. For example, dispatch sends out a burg in progress call or a Criminal damage in progress. The dispatch is generally aired in a manner that all available officers in the area to hear. That way the closest units can respond. Rarely would you hear dispatch say "Unit A and Unit B, i have a call for you, but switch to Channel X for the call type and details) Nope. They usually will air the call type and location in the clear, THEN ask responding officers to take their traffic to channel X. All the suspect needs to hear is the initial dispatch, and whala... he's outa there! The use of cell phones works too, but is a foolish method if you need multiple officers to respond to a location quickly.
 

blantonl

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I have yet to hear from anyone in the ranks here as to why a delay is not an option.
1) The feeds are already delayed

2) Arbitrary variation in delays for different feeds will only serve to confuse the listeners and cause support issues for us and our partners.
 

newsnick175

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Delays be damned, encryption be damned. The 800 lb gorilla in the room is that monitoring day to day police radio to avoid capture after committing a crime is just urban legend! Show me the press clippings where police claim that there is a crime wave where the bad actors are using radio scanners to evade capture! Yes it's nice to go along to get along by delaying feeds, but the big issue here is the end of liberty and the loss of accountability of our police forces. Yes encrypt your sensitive channels, but leave the day to day dispatch channels in the clear! That's one way for our police to keep our respect. Police are putting cameras up on our city streets to monitor our behavior, why can't we monitor theirs?

I apologize I know this is a rant that does not belong here, but I just needed to vent.
 

DisasterGuy

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The other elephant in the room is the fact that ending or delaying web feeds only provides a false sense of COMSEC to uneducated public safety agencies. If you have a need for COMSEC and OPSEC you should be using 256 bit AES encryption.


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AZScanner

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Somewhere in this room. Right now, you're very col
Let me know if you decide to host it yourself. I'm looking for a host for a private fire feed that will coincide with the incident alerts I'm currently putting out on Twitter. I think hosting it yourself is the best option. That way you control the feed delay, you can put whatever you want on it, and you make the money from any ads or premium subscriptions you get. Everyone wins.

Good luck,
-AZ
 

gmclam

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An update to my situation. I have been involved in discussions with the Deputy Chief and Public Information Officer. My stance is to NOT fight the police on this, but rather embrace their concern. I am grateful that they approached me with their concerns as opposed to just flipping the switch to encrypt the entire network. They are already using P25 and have 1 encrypted channel that is used primary for tactical situations. Encrypting the other channels would be a breeze.

With that said, our days on Radio Reference/ Broadcastify are numbered. I either need to find a service that allows AT LEAST a 5 minute delay, or I host the feeds privately and make the feed password protected and available to a select few people. If we cannot delay the audio within the next couple weeks, and we continue to feed via Radio Reference/ Broadcastify, PD will encrypt. In all honestly, I don't blame them for this ultimatum. If there is anyone that I am upset with, its the rule makers here, on RR. Adding a delay OPTION is a no brainer. Make it an option. The feeds that are used by First Responders would still have the option to feed live. The feeds that risk being removed for the same reasons I face, would have the option to delay, thus providing the feed providers with a viable compromise to their respective agencies.
I totally agree. I feel that not only should RR allow feeds to be delayed (and then require that they are labeled that they are delayed), but should also provide the mechanism to do the delaying!!!
 
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