Local PD's closing shop and going OPP

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webstar22

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Anyone else seeing these types of things happening?

Seems that arbitrator's decisions are killing some local PD's.

Pembroke police outsourcing dispatchers Pembroke police outsourcing dispatchers - The Daily Observer - Ontario, CA

OPP estimate on the way OPP estimate on the way - The Daily Observer - Ontario, CA


London Police Nervous? Windsor Cops Laid Off Following 3% Arbitration Award AM980 News Talk Sports London Police Nervous? Windsor Cops Laid Off Following 3% Arbitration Award Local News

Not as drastic as some other PD's but still the same type of thing.
 

VE3RADIO

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That is what happens when unions get greedy. There is a case similar to Windsor but much worse in Camden, NJ. They voted for a raise, the city could not afford it and half the department got laid off.
 

CanWoodsman

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I live in an area in which the OPP have taken over more than a few police departments.
Standard procedure is the OPP tender a cost quote which seems like a cheaper alternative.
Zoom ahead a few years to when the contract needs to be renewed. Bend over because you just got shafted & starting up your own force again due to start up costs is generally not an option.
Next option is to accept reduced services as a cost savings.
St. Marys is not the only community that's seen this happen.
 

Forts

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In the past few years both Sarnia and Strathroy looked at switching to OPP policing but in the end voted it down. In Strathroy's case the price per officer (on paper at least) was fairly cheaper. But it didn't seem that the OPP would guarantee that the current town officers would be absorbed into the OPP and stay in the area, nor could they guarantee the same coverage or response time. As a citizen and tax payer I'm happy they stayed with a local force. Cheaper does not always = better, that's for sure.
 

frankh

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I live in an area in which the OPP have taken over more than a few police departments.
Standard procedure is the OPP tender a cost quote which seems like a cheaper alternative.
Zoom ahead a few years to when the contract needs to be renewed. Bend over because you just got shafted & starting up your own force again due to start up costs is generally not an option.
Next option is to accept reduced services as a cost savings.
St. Marys is not the only community that's seen this happen.
same thing happening down here with the town of Essex and Leamington PS but as kind of an upside their comms were encrypted but for now at least we can listen
 

gfdfortynine

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Gananoque is looking to OPP also

Same reason, arbitrators handing over huge increase to local force.
Council has decided to do a costing as a response. A OPP costing was done about 10 years ago and it was voted down. Not sure if it will be any different this time around but things have changed drastically since then. All the factories but one have closed and the force has doubled for starters. One of the mayors comments were its hard to justify these kind of wage increases when the majority of rate payers are employed part time earning minimum wage.
 

VE3JSO

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when sarnia looked into opp they voted it down because of the cost to change the com system and i think they also said they would not do fire and cveco plus in the report the police station was below standard
 

Jammin_Jay

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Also, it would be cheaper to go with OPP. The Bell Radio system is already up and running, all they have to do is plug in a talkgroup. And it saves them money Not to implement and look for a encrypted new or used radio system.

Now that 2 Eastern Ontario towns, are looking into this, Gananonque and Pembroke. (i would assume deep river for OPP, if pembroke dispatches it now), that only leaves a couple left that are analog,

Eastern Ontario - 613
Smithsfalls - Analog - but bought a digital system, and implementing it by feb 2012. (encryption assumed)
Had to that chance to go with OPP, but counsel voted it down.

Perth - Analog (voice inverted)
The same outcome as Smithsfalls, voted it down

Brockville - Analog (voice inverted) ,
Was inquired upon, about possibly adding the cost the new fire radios, to have bps part of radio system, but Bps board, indicated they wanted to have their own radio system seperate.

Gananoque - Analog (voice inverted)
Possible OPP service, also in the past discussed about Kingston dispatching for them to save costs as an option
Kingston is p25 encrypted, but does have a tower the serves the east in former Pittsburg Township which easily reaches into Gan
 
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car55

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I'm not sure what you mean but are you saying Hamilton police ,London police ,Kitchener police ,St. Catharines -police , Niagara police ,Victoria police ,Windsor police and Brantford police may be taken over by the OPP do to the unions getting too strong ?

I have only been living in the Toronto area for less than year so I do not really know what is going on .


Quote Also, it would be cheaper to go with OPP. The Bell Radio system is already up and running, all they have to do is plug in a talkgroup. And it saves them money Not to implement and look for a encrypted new or used radio system.

Now that 2 Eastern Ontario towns, are looking into this, Gananonque and Pembroke. (i would assume deep river for OPP, if pembroke dispatches it now), that only leaves a couple left that are analog,Quote


They would not even need a trunk system in cities less than 600,000 people !!!
 

Saint

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Niagara Region

The Niagara Regional Council looked into changing from the Niagara Regional Police to the O.P.P. last year when they were screaming about how large the Niagara Regional Police budget was getting every year and how many % it was going up every year, they did a check and found out it would be more expensive to change to the O.P.P. and even the O.P.P. said they were not interested in doing the policing.
Steve
 

webstar22

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Comments on the website are getting kinda nasty

OPP costing to be revealed next Tuesday - The Daily Observer - Ontario, CA

The long awaited Ontario Provincial Police estimate to provide Pembroke’s policing services is now in, with the details of the costing being presented to council at a special meeting being held Tuesday afternoon.

At stake is the fate of the Pembroke Police Service, which has been around in one form or another since 1878.

On Feb. 14 at 5 p.m. in City Hall, the OPP costing proposal will be formally presented to council. The proposal for an OPP service contract will include all options and the costs involved with each, ranging from an integrated proposal, where the city would be included in current OPP coverage, to establishing a standalone detachment with officers dedicated to the city, which would be more expensive.

The Pembroke Police Services Board will get an opportunity to present a counter-offer two days later at a second council meeting being held Feb. 16 at 7 p.m., with LeeAnn McIntyre, the city’s treasurer, providing input on the financial implications of both offers.

On Wednesday, Feb. 22, the public, along with businesses and other interested organizations, will get a chance to wade into the discussion at a town hall public meeting being held 7 p.m. at the Pembroke Legion. People can also provide input online through the city’s website from Feb. 17 to March 1.

Council will then make a final decision on the matter at their regular meeting scheduled for March 6.

Mayor Ed Jacyno said this is a major issue which council will deal with accordingly.

“We’re trying to be as unbiased as possible, and weigh the facts presented,” he said. “Any decisions we make here is for the benefit of the taxpayers, as best as we can determine.”

The mayor stressed a critical part of this is public input, as council needs to know how the public truly feels about its police service and its future. While all of these meetings are open to the public, he encouraged people to come out to the Feb. 22. town hall meeting at the Legion where they will be able to give their opinions directly, and ask questions of OPP, city police and council representatives, all of which will be taken into consideration when the council makes its decision in March.

There is also the online option for input, Mayor Jacyno said, but people will have to provide their names to be taken seriously. He said the names will be kept confidential and won’t be released to the public.

City council first sought an OPP costing at the beginning of 2011 in reaction to an arbitrator’s decision late in 2010 to award the special constables and civilian dispatchers of the Pembroke Police Service a significant salary increase.

The city feared this increase would result in a ripple effect impacting contract negotiations with uniformed officers, and felt the potential cost would make policing a “cadillac service” taking up to 20 per cent of the entire budget, something council couldn’t afford.

It was decided by the council of the day to look for alternatives to see if they can get the same or similar level of policing services at a lower cost.

Another critical factor which council will have to address when trying to decide on the fate of their police service is the state of the police building on William Street, which needs a major investment in dollars into it in order to remain useable. For years, the building has been plagued with heating and cooling problems, accessibility and air quality issues and asbestos contamination, so severe one side of it has been sealed off.

It also needs additional holding cells and an upgrade to the cell area to bring the department up to the standards of other provincial departments, with a new cell block wing/sally port needed to be constructed.

This is the second time the city has sought an OPP costing. In 2001-02, after much debate, council decided to stick with its own police department after feeling at the time the cost difference wasn’t great enough to scrap the city police service.

Should city council decide to pursue the OPP option in its March meeting, it would take up to a year to dissolve the current department and its support structures, work out severance packages and other forms of compensation for employees, and then install the provincial police service, a process outlined under the Police Services Act of Ontario.

The process, should it proceed further, will also involve more consultation meetings with the public.
 

sudsyjkh

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In the south Bruce peninsula area [wiarton] town council is considering switching from the opp to a local force [saugeen shores maybe] once their opp contract is up in 2013...anything firm is still tbd. I know aron/eldersly [Tara, chestley] council is considering the same.
 

SCPD

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opp take over

haldimand-Norfolk region that funs along lake Erie did this years ago, OPP took over and I believe most regional officers were deputized into the OPP force so no really lost jobs, unless you wanted to be packaged out.
 

EJB

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Haldimand and Norfolk divorced. They are now separate city counties.

When the Caledonia crisis was in full swing the mayor of Haldimand was very critical of the OPP and made noises about switching police providers when the OPP contract was up. Like most polsn they speak more and do little.
 

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sudsyjkh said:
In the south Bruce peninsula area [wiarton] town council is considering switching from the opp to a local force [saugeen shores maybe] once their opp contract is up in 2013...anything firm is still tbd. I know aron/eldersly [Tara, chestley] council is considering the same.
I wonder what it costs to police the town of north Bruce Pen? They have 1 office in Lions Head and a summer one in Tobermorey.

It would be interesting if to police up there a private security company or local vols would handle it.
 

webstar22

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They had some numbers on the radio this morning, I may have heard it wrong but

5 million a year for the OPP based out of Petawawa to cover Pembroke and make a Zone 4
5.2 million a year for Pembroke to get it's own force from the OPP

Price includes any extras like ERT or the chopper etc...
 

webstar22

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OPP presents its case to city
Updated 8 hours ago
STEPHEN UHLER

suhler@thedailyobserver.ca

For between $5 million to $5.2 million and about a half million dollars in start up costs, the Ontario Provincial Police says it can provide the city of Pembroke a similar level of police service it now enjoys.

That includes access to specialty services, guaranteed levels of service, shielding from legal costs and other perks.

One thing it doesn’t, and won’t, include is a new police building.

“That is the responsibility of the municipality to provide that,” said Ron Case, a member of the OPP’s contract policing section, who explained during a special city council meeting held Tuesday that would be true no matter what police service is around.

As part of their survey of police facilities while they were formulating a bid on services, the OPP examined the city police building at 169 William Street, and concluded it was in a state beyond a quick fix to make it suitable for occupation.

“It is probably beyond the state where we could retrofit it,” Sgt. Case said, adding a new facility would be needed anyway.

Back in December, Dave Hawkins, Pembroke’s police chief, told the police services board major work needs to be done on the current building to make it useable. Since Oct. 2010, one wing of the building has been sealed off and evacuated due to the presence of asbestos, the heating and air conditioning system is breaking down, the three-storey building itself isn’t fully accessible, and stairwells are problematic when it comes to prisoner security.

Additional holding cells and an upgrade to the cell area are needed to bring the department up to the standards of other provincial departments, with a new cell block wing/sally port needed to be constructed.

Paul Legault, also with the OPP’s contract policing section, said they consider the matter of the building separate from their contract for policing services, except to say some sort of suitable facility needs to be provided.

Coun. Pat Lafreniere asked if the city went with the OPP, would there be any grants or funding provided to help the municipality repair or rebuild a suitable police headquarters.

Sgt. Case said there may be “some opportunity” to get some money to assist, but there was no guarantee that would happen. However, there was definitely no chance of financial help for a building if the city stuck with their current police department.

Mayor Ed Jacyno said the local police costing committee, struck when the city decided to seek an OPP bid, has some ideas of how to deal with a home for the police service, but will be offering that as part of their presentation on Thursday, which will be their comments on the costing.

Late Tuesday afternoon, city council, along with a packed public gallery, heard from the OPP’s contract policing team and Upper Ottawa Valley OPP acting detachment commander Derek Needham, who presented two options presented to the city as the ones which would best meet their needs for 24/7 police protection and a dedicated police presence.

Sgt. Legault said the first option, the integrated model, would see Pembroke become a fourth zone of coverage based out of the Upper Ottawa Valley detachment. Under it, the current detachment’s front line officers will be expanded from 37 to 73, with the extra police used to cover the city. That would cost the city $5,013,951 annually. Another $471,754 in one time start up and capital costs would also need to be spent to get the new force up and running.

The second option, becoming a stand alone detachment of the OPP, will cost more - $5,229,204 plus $514,352 in start up costs - as it is more expensive to create a whole new detachment, rather than integrate with an existing one.

As for differences in police coverage, the OPP representatives said it wouldn’t be noticeable.

The acting detachment commander said the police go where the calls are, and cover for each other as the need arises. He said because Pembroke would be busier than a rural area, for instance, due to being in a built up area, the city would therefore get more police presence.

Asked if there is a risk Pembroke could lose its police protection because of this shifting to meet demand, Sgt. Needham really didn’t think it was possible.

“I really can’t imagine any time that would happen,” he said.

Sgt. Case said another way to think about it is currently the Pembroke police service has about 30 members, while if they were integrated with the Upper Ottawa Valley OPP, they would be part of a larger group of 73 officers, with access to greater resources. In some instances, that may improve their response times to emergency calls, just by virtue of numbers available to answer them.

Use of extra services would be included in the contract, so a lengthy search and rescue operation, for instance, involving dive teams, the canine unit, and the OPP helicopter won’t be charged to the city.

The OPP would be accountable to council through a police services board, which wouldn’t have to handle such things as grievances, disciplinary actions or contract negotiations, which can get costly if lawyers get involved. This same board would deal with ensuring service levels are being met throughout the municipality.

What wasn’t included in the costing was such items as severance packages, buy-outs and other matters which would have to be negotiated if and when the city makes its decision.

Sgt. Legault said in most cases, the current serving members of the Pembroke Police Service would be brought on board as OPP officers, with exceptions being due to injury, illness, or any criminal proceedings against them. All those would be dealt with on a case by case basis.

On Thursday, Feb. 16 at 7 p.m., the police costing committee will present its report on the matter, with LeeAnn McIntyre, the city’s treasurer, providing input on the financial implications.

On Wednesday, Feb. 22, the public, along with businesses and other interested organizations, will get a chance to wade into the discussion at a town hall public meeting being held 7 p.m. at the Pembroke Legion. People can also provide input online through the city’s website from Feb. 17 to March 1. Details of the OPP’s costing proposal and the police costing committee, once it is given on Thursday, will be posted there as well for the public’s perusal.

Council will then make a final decision on the matter at their regular meeting scheduled for March 6
 
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