Looking for documents

[CommJunkie]

I am looking for something that states the penalties for transmitting on a frequency without license or authorization. My fire dept. private channel was published and now we have neighboring fire departments using the frequency for their own use. They could have asked...lol.

Anyway, I tried FCC's website (their search engine sucks) and Google.com, but can't really find anything. Anyone have anywhere for me to look?

Thanks.

 

[SkipSanders]

1) There are no 'private channels'.
2) If they were licensed, they have just as much right to be there as you do. Are they?

The actual law, section 301 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended:

§ 301. License for radio communication or transmission of energy
It is the purpose of this chapter, among other things, to maintain the control of the United States over all the channels of radio transmission; and to provide for the use of such channels, but not the ownership thereof, by persons for limited periods of time, under licenses granted by Federal authority, and no such license shall be construed to create any right, beyond the terms, conditions, and periods of the license. No person shall use or operate any apparatus for the transmission of energy or communications or signals by radio (a) from one place in any State, Territory, or possession of the United States or in the District of Columbia to another place in the same State, Territory, possession, or District; or (b) from any State, Territory, or possession of the United States, or from the District of Columbia to any other State, Territory, or possession of the United States; or (c) from any place in any State, Territory, or possession of the United States, or in the District of Columbia, to any place in any foreign country or to any vessel; or (d) within any State when the effects of such use extend beyond the borders of said State, or when interference is caused by such use or operation with the transmission of such energy, communications, or signals from within said State to any place beyond its borders, or from any place beyond its borders to any place within said State, or with the transmission or reception of such energy, communications, or signals from and/or to places beyond the borders of said State; or (e) upon any vessel or aircraft of the United States (except as provided in section 303(t) of this title); or (f) upon any other mobile stations within the jurisdiction of the United States, except under and in accordance with this chapter and with a license in that behalf granted under the provisions of this chapter.

The FCC establishes the fines, and in general, the fine for unlicensed operation is $10,000 dollars, in theory applicable for each DAY of unlicensed operation, but usually not assessed that way.

 

[CommJunkie]

The channel may not be "private" to receive, but if the fire company needed to obtain a license to operate on a frequency, they (I believe) would have the say on who was authorized to operate under that license. We are in the process of changing repeater PL tones, but that only lasts so long until someone figures it out.

Bottom line, this frequency is used for fireground operations, and people like to key up and activate or block the repeater. We don't need a casualty because someone couldn't use the radio. My county has prosecuted unlawful users of the emergency operations channels, so why shouldn't a fire company be granted the same right?

It's stated somewhere that unless you have permission to use a frequency you can be fined, with the exception of an emergency, which you can use any frequency at your disposal. I've seen the text out there but I can't find it now and was just looking to see if someone knew where it was, that's all.

 

[DickH]

I am looking for something that states the penalties for transmitting on a frequency without license or authorization.

In most areas, neighboring fire departments usually get along together quite well, providing mutual aid, etc.
I can't imagine they carry on lengthy conversations all day, but if you really want to make an issue of it, call the nearest FCC office and complain.

 

[SkipSanders]

The channel may not be "private" to receive, but if the fire company needed to obtain a license to operate on a frequency, they (I believe) would have the say on who was authorized to operate under that license.

Yes, you have 'the say' on who uses YOUR license. That doesn't give you a 'private' channel. The FCC is free to issue more licenses, to other users, including in your area. And they'd have just as much right as you do to use the channel.

They would not, on the other hand, have a right to use a repeater of yours. And your description doesn't sound at all like you're talking about other fire departments, more like radio hackers who've got the ubiquitous 'modded' ham gear to deliberately interfere.

Regardless, interference complaints go to the FCC.

Since you don't give the channel, I can't check to see who all is licensed on it. The VFD in your city (by the GMRS call) doesn't even HAVE fire frequencies, it's licensed on business channels for 23 4 watt moblile only radios! You betcha there are 50-100 other business users on both their frequencies, within 25 miles. I checked.

 

[CommJunkie]

Yes, you have 'the say' on who uses YOUR license. That doesn't give you a 'private' channel. The FCC is free to issue more licenses, to other users, including in your area. And they'd have just as much right as you do to use the channel.

I said private channel, not private frequency. Sorry, didn't know you were going to turn my words into legalities.

They would not, on the other hand, have a right to use a repeater of yours. And your description doesn't sound at all like you're talking about other fire departments, more like radio hackers who've got the ubiquitous 'modded' ham gear to deliberately interfere.

Actually, they are members of other stations that choose to interfere. Again, turning my words.

Regardless, interference complaints go to the FCC.

Thanks pal, but I was asking for the written law or rule or whatever you want to call it since you are the word genious out of the two of us. I know where complaints get filed. Just like I know where your answers are getting filed.

Since you don't give the channel, I can't check to see who all is licensed on it. The VFD in your city (by the GMRS call) doesn't even HAVE fire frequencies, it's licensed on business channels for 23 4 watt moblile only radios! You betcha there are 50-100 other business users on both their frequencies, within 25 miles. I checked.

You checked did you? Well guess what, Hotshot? I don't volunteer in the town I live in! I joined a fire dept. and then moved. You wouldn't find it anyway, because the "town" listed on my GMRS license is just a mailing address that's borrowed by the post office because my town's post office is too overcrowded.

Sorry I don't *get* the radio as much as your highness, but next time I'll just call the FCC instead of using these forums. Silly me, I thought I'd find someone who could help me out, not patronize/antagonize me for asking.

 

[CommJunkie]

Mods, feel free to lock, delete, move, whatever this post, since I'm not going to get my answer here anyway.

 

[Don_Burke]

next time I'll just call the FCC instead of using these forums.

That is a very good plan as you were going to have to call the FCC anyway.

 

[SkipSanders]

It's WAY to large to post, but, the FCC regulation on fines for violations. Like I said, it's nominally 10,000 a day for unlicensed operation. But the FCC doesn't rubber stamp violations, they consider everything, and may fine more, or considerably less.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/....access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/octqtr/47cfr1.80.htm

 

[loumaag]

Attn: CommJunkie

First and foremost, "file" that attitude you seem to have grown in this thread.

Second, you were provided the answer to your original question in the first response (see post #2) to your question; you choose to ignore the answer completely and pick on the parts of Skip's where he was just stating ancellary facts.

Third, I will repeat what Skip said to begin with, there are no "private channels" (your words, not his) in the LMR spectrum. Channels are allocated based on coordination, availability, and need. No matter what you call it or no matter who told you the FG channel you are using is "private", it isn't. That is not to say that someone else using the frequency is legal (again, refer to post #2).

Since you did not choose to say which of the frequencies you are talking about (I am assuming something in Delaware Co., PA based on your posting history), those of us who are not challenged by the FCC web site can't really give you more information about "outside" users. However, if you are talking about other Delaware Co. fire stations interfering on "your" channel, then I suggest you complain to Mr. Truitt, as it is not any violation of the FCC rules.

If you choose to pursue this any further, may I suggest you let out what frequency you are talking about; but it won't be in this thread, as you have requested it be closed.