Marine band going digital

[vagrant]

Your statement is correct. Your statement is also incorrect. As people are different, so are their hearing differences and preferences. Add to that manufacturing differences and the fun keeps on going. So silly to go back and forth on this. It's like arguing which color is best. (We all know it is turquoise)

Not as good as analog.

 

[KC3ECJ]

Your statement is correct. Your statement is also incorrect. As people are different, so are their hearing differences and preferences. Add to that manufacturing differences and the fun keeps on going. So silly to go back and forth on this. It's like arguing which color is best. (We all know it is turquoise)

It isn't about opinion. It is a fact it doesn't have as high fidelity.

 

[nsrailfan6130]

If Analog is as good as you claim, why do you think agencies are jumping ship and moving to digital? And can you tell me how you came to the conclusions you did?

Not as good as analog.

 

[nsrailfan6130]

And you are basing this on what?

Not as good as analog.

 

[KC3ECJ]

If Analog is as good as you claim, why do you think agencies are jumping ship and moving to digital?

Money. Somebody feels they aren't selling enough so they either come up with something new or think they can repurpose a thing in a new role.

And if they still feel they aren't making enough money, they are trying figure out ways to force it on to people.

It is one thing using digital for non critical stuff, but do you want to be denied the option of analog in a critical situation?

 

[mmckenna]

And you are basing this on what?

I run a Kenwood NexEdge trunked system at work. I also run a couple of VHF analog systems.
Same dispatch consoles, same dispatchers.
In my work truck I have a Kenwood NX-900 running on the NexEdge 800MHz system. That radio is connected to a large external speaker behind the seat.
I also have a Kenwood NX-700 running on the analog VHF systems. Same large external speaker behind the seat.

Same dispatchers, same console, same radios on my end.
NXDN sounds just as good as 12.5KHz Analog. NXDN has a bit more dynamic range, so I'd say it sounds a bit better than the analog systems.

That's a side by side comparison with identical equipment, except for the repeaters (Motorola Quantar and MTR-2000 on VHF, Kenwood NXR-900's on 800).

Before 2013, the VHF PD and Fire systems were running 25KHz analog. They had a very slight edge over NXDN, but it wasn't a night versus day thing. Just a slight edge.


A couple of points here:
The ITU proposal isn't for NXDN. It's for a 6.25KHz digital based off dPMR. dPMR and NXDN are not compatible, but are very similar.
The ITU hasn't released the standard yet, so this is all assumptions. Until they release it, it might still change.
There are some very intelligent people working on these standards. It's not some random guy in his garage that is making this stuff up.
This will be a global standard.
There will be a lot of benefits going to digital. It's all in the documents for anyone who wants to read them.

The analog versus digital fight has been going on for years. None the less, digital has prevailed.

 

[vagrant]

Are you trolling, or being serious about analog high fidelity out of a marine band radio speaker, especially a handheld? I think trolling because it is absurd to not realize people have different opinions on audio based on their hearing abilities whether by birth, or injury. For you, analog is king. Hurray!

P.S. In a critical marine situation, I'm pressing a button on a PLB or Inreach type of device first, then going for a radio. I am definitely glad I and others are not forced to use 2182 anymore. You know, 2182 kHz analog. Still, you do you on 2182.

It isn't about opinion. It is a fact it doesn't have as high fidelity.

 

[mmckenna]

You know, 2182 kHz analog.

500KHz CW FTW.

 

[nsrailfan6130]

I literally just finished reading those documents. I for one am eager to see where it goes to be honest.

I run a Kenwood NexEdge trunked system at work. I also run a couple of VHF analog systems.
Same dispatch consoles, same dispatchers.
In my work truck I have a Kenwood NX-900 running on the NexEdge 800MHz system. That radio is connected to a large external speaker behind the seat.
I also have a Kenwood NX-700 running on the analog VHF systems. Same large external speaker behind the seat.

Same dispatchers, same console, same radios on my end.
NXDN sounds just as good as 12.5KHz Analog. NXDN has a bit more dynamic range, so I'd say it sounds a bit better than the analog systems.

That's a side by side comparison with identical equipment, except for the repeaters (Motorola Quantar and MTR-2000 on VHF, Kenwood NXR-900's on 800).

Before 2013, the VHF PD and Fire systems were running 25KHz analog. They had a very slight edge over NXDN, but it wasn't a night versus day thing. Just a slight edge.


A couple of points here:
The ITU proposal isn't for NXDN. It's for a 6.25KHz digital based off dPMR. dPMR and NXDN are not compatible, but are very similar.
The ITU hasn't released the standard yet, so this is all assumptions. Until they release it, it might still change.
There are some very intelligent people working on these standards. It's not some random guy in his garage that is making this stuff up.
This will be a global standard.
There will be a lot of benefits going to digital. It's all in the documents for anyone who wants to read them.

The analog versus digital fight has been going on for years. None the less, digital has prevailed.

 

[KC3ECJ]

Are you trolling, or being serious about analog high fidelity out of a marine band radio speaker, especially a handheld? I think trolling because it is absurd to not realize people have different opinions on audio based on their hearing abilities whether by birth, or injury. For you, analog is king. Hurray!

P.S. In a critical marine situation, I'm pressing a button on a PLB or Inreach type of device first, then going for a radio. I am definitely glad I and others are not forced to use 2182 anymore. You know, 2182 kHz analog. Still, you do you on 2182.

It isn't my opinion because it is something that can be measured.

A PLB won't give you information on whether you are about to collide with another vessel.
Somebody talking to you with their radio may be able to.

 

[vagrant]

hahaha You old bastid - I guess me too because I know what you meant. Take your big boat GMDSS and heave to.

500KHz CW FTW.

 

[KevinC]

I run a Kenwood NexEdge trunked system at work. I also run a couple of VHF analog systems.
Same dispatch consoles, same dispatchers.
In my work truck I have a Kenwood NX-900 running on the NexEdge 800MHz system. That radio is connected to a large external speaker behind the seat.
I also have a Kenwood NX-700 running on the analog VHF systems. Same large external speaker behind the seat.

Same dispatchers, same console, same radios on my end.
NXDN sounds just as good as 12.5KHz Analog. NXDN has a bit more dynamic range, so I'd say it sounds a bit better than the analog systems.

That's a side by side comparison with identical equipment, except for the repeaters (Motorola Quantar and MTR-2000 on VHF, Kenwood NXR-900's on 800).

Before 2013, the VHF PD and Fire systems were running 25KHz analog. They had a very slight edge over NXDN, but it wasn't a night versus day thing. Just a slight edge.


A couple of points here:
The ITU proposal isn't for NXDN. It's for a 6.25KHz digital based off dPMR. dPMR and NXDN are not compatible, but are very similar.
The ITU hasn't released the standard yet, so this is all assumptions. Until they release it, it might still change.
There are some very intelligent people working on these standards. It's not some random guy in his garage that is making this stuff up.
This will be a global standard.
There will be a lot of benefits going to digital. It's all in the documents for anyone who wants to read them.

The analog versus digital fight has been going on for years. None the less, digital has prevailed.

To add to that...you really see the digital advantage using a mixed-mode repeater. I've implemented numerous mixed-mode (analog and P25, some even P25 conventional simulcast) and hearing the difference when you stand in the exact same place using a portable on the fringe and switch modes is amazing.

 

[mmckenna]

I literally just finished reading those documents. I for one am eager to see where it goes to be honest.

It'll take quite a while.
I remember removing the 500KHz transceiver off our ship. That was in the early 1990's. Technology had advanced beyond CW.
2182KHz is still active, but not many monitor it anymore.
GMDSS took the place of most of this stuff. It was widely accepted and now is the standard/requirement.
Most ships use satellite for routine communications.
HF radio telephone is all but gone, technology moved on.
VHF analog is sort of the lone holdout. Narrow band is coming. Digital will be next. But not sure if we'll be around when it finally happens. If they get their act together, narrow band analog and digital in the same radio would make a lot of sense.

 

[mmckenna]

To add to that...you really see the digital advantage using a mixed-mode repeater. I've implemented numerous mixed-mode (analog and P25, some even P25 conventional simulcast) and hearing the difference when you stand in the exact same place using a portable on the fringe and switch modes is amazing.

Yeah, it sure does.

The 1990's called, they want their analog back….

 

[mmckenna]

hahaha You old bastid - I guess me too because I know what you meant. Take your big boat GMDSS and heave to.

I had the chance to add GMDSS endorsement to my GROL many years ago. Sort of wish I'd done it, but I don't work on the big stuff anymore. Still, would have been nice for a backup career path.

 

[vagrant]

That is true, so I keep my eyes open to avoid that. Anyways, analog is mandatory in the form of Whistle / Horn / Bell, because radio/electric/batteries can fail. Wait, is a bell still required?

A PLB won't give you information on whether you are about to collide with another vessel.

 

[mmckenna]

Wait, is a bell still required?

Yes, but I'm sure Digital Bells are coming. You'll have to be able to decipher hexadecimal messages via bell.

 

[vagrant]

Analog for the hearing impaired.

 

[Monitorman7001]

A webinar/Q&A about going digital covers the same things in the report.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

ITU has been looking at this for a few years now.

There is an established plan to go to narrow band FM. No timeline yet.

A actual plan to migrate to digital is a ways off. As dlwtrunked said, it'll be met with a lot of opposition from those that don't want to give up their 20 year old VHF radio.

A lot of lives have been saved with 20 year old marine radios. I really question the functional need for a narrowbanding or digital migration. the life safety channels should be left alone.