Media denied access

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Mars_P25

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These are a couple of bad reporters out of how many?
Anybody is a reporter these days. Journalism is dead thanks to Twitter, blogs, fake news and society having the collective attention span of a FASD kid.
 

BC_Scan

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I guess you guys have not heard of the homicides in BC this past week. BC RCMP and a cadre of news reporters were there when they announced Monday night that a few kids where missing from Port Alberni. Next night (last) they were informing us that they are now suspects in a investigation of three dead people, so BC new agencies are busy collecting the details . The job of the news beat reporter is to go down daily to the cop shop and get the blotter from the media relations officer. The information is controlled , yeah so what. but at least its getting out. Overnight those two teenagers went from BOLF to Most Wanted, last seen in Manitoba.
Here’s what we know about the 3 dead in northern B.C. and the suspects
Get over police encryption.
Yesterday, working outside in Richmond, the sirens went screaching by. Last night's news reported a man stabbed on the bus. This morning, I read about 21 yr old arrested for stabbing 42 yr old. With all those witnesses snapping photos how was this story not getting out ?
 

jim202

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Not wanting to stir up the pot any more than it already is, there are a number of negatives to using encryption on any radio system. First is that you have to pay more to be able to use it. Your radio has to be able to have the ability to include encryption. This puts you in the upper tier of a radio. Second, the cost of encryption is some place in the order of around $500 per radio. This means that for each person out in the field, you now have 2 radios that have just cost the tax payer around $1000 just to have encryption in these radios. A portable and the radio in the vehicle that person is driving.

Now comes the other cost of encryption. The radio support people need to touch each and every radio on a regular basis to change the encryption key. But in this process, you either have to split your radio users between 2 radio channels or they can't talk to each other. Don't forget this includes the dispatch consoles. They also need to have the radio support people change the keying for the encryption.

So there is a finite period of time during the re-keying of the radios that you have a compatibility issue with being able to communicate with the entire fleet of radios. Sure some radio systems have over the air re-keying of the encryption key, but again, this doesn't change all radios at one time. You have to do one radio at a time. Large fleets do take a while to change the encryption key no matter what type or re-programming you have available.

The third problem with changing the encryption key is that you also have to consider your other agencies around you. If you share the radio channels for interoperability between departments, you just add time and complexity to re-keying the encryption in all these other radios.

Some agencies take the stand that they just don't change the encryption keys. It takes too long and causes mass confusion in the process of doing it. But now you run the risk of someone just might stumble into what your encryption key is. Once someone finds the key, they will pass that along like a big news flash around the area.

So the choices are not always easy when it comes to encryption. You shoot your self in the foot no matter what choice you make. These agencies spend tax money all year long just to support encryption. It is not just a one time expense. Depending how large the radio fleet is, it could take a number of radio techs some serious time to touch each radio. But again, each radio really needs to be put on the service monitor to insure the radio is on frequency and the transmit modulation is correct. So doing both at the same time is a better way to change the encryption key. But no matter how you look at it, it takes time for each radio.

Good luck with what ever happens. I am not a supporter of full time encryption, because it lets too many things get swept under the rug. The longer you have encryption, the more abuse the users seem to use on the encrypted radios channels to hide things from the rest of the world.

Jim
 

kayn1n32008

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Now comes the other cost of encryption. The radio support people need to touch each and every radio on a regular basis to change the encryption key.
No. It’s called OTAR.

The radio needs an initial key loaded during the commissioning process.

Once that radio has been keyed, the radio is now able to be rekeyed by the KMF attached to the radio network. The ONLY time after the initial key variable load a radio needs to be touched again, is if the radio is zeroized.

But in this process, you either have to split your radio users between 2 radio channels or they can't talk to each other. Don't forget this includes the dispatch consoles. They also need to have the radio support people change the keying for the encryption.

So there is a finite period of time during the re-keying of the radios that you have a compatibility issue with being able to communicate with the entire fleet of radios. Sure some radio systems have over the air re-keying of the encryption key, but again, this doesn't change all radios at one time. You have to do one radio at a time. Large fleets do take a while to change the encryption key no matter what type or re-programming you have available.
Entirely wrong when OTAR is used.

The third problem with changing the encryption key is that you also have to consider your other agencies around you. If you share the radio channels for interoperability between departments, you just add time and complexity to re-keying the encryption in all these other radios.

Some agencies take the stand that they just don't change the encryption keys. It takes too long and causes mass confusion in the process of doing it. But now you run the risk of someone just might stumble into what your encryption key is. Once someone finds the key, they will pass that along like a big news flash around the area.

So the choices are not always easy when it comes to encryption. You shoot your self in the foot no matter what choice you make. These agencies spend tax money all year long just to support encryption. It is not just a one time expense. Depending how large the radio fleet is, it could take a number of radio techs some serious time to touch each radio. But again, each radio really needs to be put on the service monitor to insure the radio is on frequency and the transmit modulation is correct. So doing both at the same time is a better way to change the encryption key. But no matter how you look at it, it takes time for each radio.

Good luck with what ever happens. I am not a supporter of full time encryption, because it lets too many things get swept under the rug. The longer you have encryption, the more abuse the users seem to use on the encrypted radios channels to hide things from the rest of the world.

Jim
I suggest you look into the ECOMM network in British Columbia.

It’s a multi site, simulcast, P25 phase 2 wide area network on which ALL users are 100% encrypted, full time. Police, fire and EMS. This includes interop talkgroups.

When egos are left at the door, and people want to cooperate, encryption is completely transparent to the users.

My guess is that the network operator manages ALL aspects of encryption key management.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

robertmac

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I guess you guys have not heard of the homicides in BC this past week. BC RCMP and a cadre of news reporters were there when they announced Monday night that a few kids where missing from Port Alberni. Next night (last) they were informing us that they are now suspects in a investigation of three dead people, so BC new agencies are busy collecting the details . The job of the news beat reporter is to go down daily to the cop shop and get the blotter from the media relations officer. The information is controlled , yeah so what. but at least its getting out. Overnight those two teenagers went from BOLF to Most Wanted, last seen in Manitoba.
Here’s what we know about the 3 dead in northern B.C. and the suspects
Get over police encryption.
Yesterday, working outside in Richmond, the sirens went screaching by. Last night's news reported a man stabbed on the bus. This morning, I read about 21 yr old arrested for stabbing 42 yr old. With all those witnesses snapping photos how was this story not getting out ?
LATE!
 

slicerwizard

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Toronto, Ontario
So there is a finite period of time during the re-keying of the radios that you have a compatibility issue with being able to communicate with the entire fleet of radios. Sure some radio systems have over the air re-keying of the encryption key, but again, this doesn't change all radios at one time. You have to do one radio at a time. Large fleets do take a while to change the encryption key no matter what type or re-programming you have available.
You really don't know how this stuff works. Read the P25 standards docs on encryption/OTAR.
 

WB3DYE

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White Haven Pa
Saskatoon police scrap scanners for newsrooms after privacy ruling

The Saskatoon Police Service says it is working to find alternate measures to provide access to information after removing media access to police scanner traffic.

“We do about 1,000 news releases a year, but we also are looking for other technologies, solutions to maybe allow media to see what’s going on without giving out some of that critical information that might breach privacy legislation,” Chief Troy Cooper told CTV News.

“It really doesn’t matter a lot what happens with it, it’s us that’s actually breaching the legislation by sharing that without authority.”
 

gmclam

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At a time when it has become "the police vs the public" in many places, the act of removing access to at least police dispatch calls seems like the wrong action to take. I've been listening for decades and feel it has helped me to avoid areas where incidents are happening and make me aware of who is being sought for some criminal activity. While the action of encryption/etc might keep communication private, it also means that Law Enforcement is saying to EVERYONE out there that "We Don't Need Your Eyes And Ears Looking Out For Us".

It means that even adjacent municipalities are not able to listen. If a crime happens near a border, it takes a lot longer (if it happens at all) for the neighboring agency to become informed.

I find ironic that yesterday some law enforcement official in the USA was complaining because they couldn't break the encryption on some suspect's devices. Hey let's just put "back doors" in everywhere; and then savvy folks won't be affected.
 
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