Middlesex County Open Sky

[GM]

I'm not sure if Middlesex County is going to a P25 trunked system as of now. All of the newer radios (P7300/M7300's) have the OpenSky trunking feature installed in it, and not the P25 trunking feature. Granted, it is very easy for them to upgrade their current newer fleet of radios to accomodate P25 trunking, but from my sources at the top, there has been no such action at this time.

As of right now, EDACS will be around for quite some time, as their is limited funding available for upgrades. Federal grant monies can change this, but I have not heard any new news right now. And EDACS will NOT be shut down nationwide in 2017 - it's simply the year Harris will stop the support for it. You can operate these radios systems for as long as it works (properly) and can get parts for them. A number of agencies are taking the view of "if it's not broke, don't fix it" due to funding.

The Middlesex Borough OpenSky site is simply a test site as of now with the County Fire Marshals office. Some testing on OpenSky has been performed and that's what I know so far. If the OpenSky system is set up correctly (proper amount of towers, coverage issues being addresssed, etc.) then it will be a great system to be on. But so far, everyone one across the nation that has been operating in a Public Safety manner has been a FAILURE, and that's a concern for a lot of us out here. On the other hand, it works quite well for Utility companies.

More to report as I find confirmed facts...

 

[902]

I have never got official confirmation about any switches to any other system voices. However, anyone who has used Harris EDACS systems, especially firefighters can contest massive dead zones. In the line of emergency services having constant radio connection is critical. This was never the case years ago when most departments still had analog transmissions from a local antenna. I know for a fact South Plainfield has complained about that and is having Tactical Public Safety ( a company that sells radios, fixes and upgrades Harris radios and transmission components) do " stuff " to their radio system. With 2017 coming up and EDACS reaching it's phase out this system and others like it maybe transitioning to another system voice. It's doubtful that Middlesex County will transition to Opensky. Departments are looking for interoperability and that would be a major blow if that happens. Having P25 or it being a standard in NJ would do just that. Most radios will not
Need to be replaced since most Harris Radios are multiband and switching the system voices is not difficult.

Only time will tell....

I'm not so sure that massive dead zones are a function of the EDACS protocol and not system design. I am in an area (not Middlesex) that uses an EDACS system and it seems to be working adequately, handling thousands of voice calls a day in an 800 MHz analog simulcast environment. Since fireground operations are extensively portable use, seems that coverage issues might be due to portable and in-building coverage. Those could be overcome with simplex fireground, or field-deployable repeaters if necessary. Down here, the land is more or less flat and simulcast sites/voting receivers are about 6 miles apart on 250 ft. towers. That could have a lot to do with it. They do operate fireground on talkgroups within the system and, for this area, it works okay. I don't recall hearing many unreadable transmissions while monitoring over the past few years.

The trunking protocol itself is very reliable, as is SmartNet and others. I would look for system design, and maybe low-balled implementation with the system designed for a certain level of street coverage, not inside.

Now, that says nothing about OS. It's "supposed to" look like TETRA and is nothing more than 4/TDMA, and that works. It's only 2 more TDM slots than DMR, and that works. Best I can figure is that it worked in the lab and they rushed it to production without giving it sufficient forward error correction - but that's only a guess. No one will ever tell me that. There is no good reason why it shouldn't work, but you know how that goes.

[For the sake of disclosure, I am not a Harris/M/A-Com/Ericsson/GE employee or stockholder, nor am I a current employee/stockholder of any competitor.]

 

[johnls7424]

There are dead zones here. Fire departments being one of the but too even in provoice digital EMS has plenty of dead zones as well. South Plainfield being one of them. Fire here has switched off the county and uses their 500 MHz frequency having other services go directly through dispatch for relay of additional assistance. Another tower being fully operational in this area would surely help coverage.

 

[radiomanNJ1]

Where has OPEN SCAM worked well for Public Safety?

 

[elk2370bruce]

Where has OPEN SCAM worked well for Public Safety?

While my comment can't be a universal condemnation, OPENSKY has been a public safety disaster in just about all locations, half-Penny wise and pound foolish. Based on that comment, Middlesex County is sure to adopt it instead of more reliably tested systems.

 

[johnls7424]

I have never seen a Motorola, Kenwood, or simply any other radio besides Harris MA/COM radios even support OPENSKY as a system voice protocol. So much for interoperability and standards for achieving it.

 

[johnls7424]

I do retract that statement I did research motorola solutions and yes there are few select ( looks very expensive) radios that support Opensky. Still the system is garbage and a terrible investment. Even the State of New York dropped the system stating it just doesn't work.

 

[902]

Hi John,

Most SDR radios can do multiple waveforms. All that has to be done is to code it into the radio. However, OS is proprietary to Harris. It's their intellectual property, and, as far as I'm aware, they will not license it to another manufacturer outside of their brand.

OS "looks like" TETRA, though (but it's apparently not as robust). It is 4/TDMA, too. Motorola makes TETRA subscriber units (so do many more manufacturers throughout the world who make radios about as reliable, if not more reliable). Up until very recently, there was a great deal of territorial resistance. Then upstart PowerTrunk came in and started targeting transit operations. NJ Transit has a TETRA system on several 800 MHz frequencies.

There is political opposition to TETRA, too. Many regional planning committees mandate conventional FM and/or P25 for their "interoperability" channels. Likewise, there are moldy oldies from the P25 crowd who take every opportunity to oppose implementation or discourage NPSPAC spectrum usage. But I digress. I don't think you'll find OS in anything but a Harris radio (or one of its predecessor companies' products).

One thing to keep your eyes open for - JVCKenwood now owns E.F. Johnson. EFJ has spent a lot of resources getting better at producing subscriber units. Getting bought out by JVCKenwood gives them access to proven infrastructure products, too. Don't expect OS in them.

[No endorsements implied]

 

[GM]

I've noticed that since Sept. 29, 2014, the OpenSky "control channel" sound has been off the air from the Middlesex Boro site. No sign of any voice or data sounds on any of the licensed County 700 MHz frequencies since then.

 

[johnls7424]

Middlesex County will most likely utilize P-25 phase 2 format. I have happened to talk to a few people in the county parks commission and they said they heard wind from their boss that Middlesex Talkgroup will be migrating to P25. Reason being that it's a direct push to digital and most department radios who are not on Middlesex counties talkgroup can easily migrate to P25 making interoperability easier to initiate if other municipalites wish to. Having Opensky from Harris radios means major radio changes as well as dispatch changes too. All moneu which many towns cannot afford.

 

[richee2000]

and, i would assume, every law enforcement talk group will be encrypted, as usual, in middlesex county.

 

[GM]

Actually, it's quite easy to link OpenSky technology to P25 digital voice and data by Harris. This link: Harris PSPC shows how Middlesex County would achieve interoperability from OpenSky to any P25, DMR, or LTE based network.

Also keep in mind that all of the current radios the County has, does NOT have P25 voice/data feature installed, but has the OpenSky voice/data feature installed in them. It would be a while to upgrade all of the radios to accommodate P25 voice in them at a cost.

 

[johnls7424]

Well... We see somebody on here that eitber works for Harris or subsidiaries or is very " pro- Opensky" migration.

 

[902]

This link: Harris PSPC shows how Middlesex County would achieve interoperability from OpenSky to any P25, DMR, or LTE based network.

Through clip-art? Marketing sheets explain nothing.

Let's call that what it is: a fancy matrix box that requires independent, overlapping resources to work.

 

[johnls7424]

I hate to agree with anybody but spreadsheets do mean nothing.

 

[GM]

I noticed earlier today that the OpenSky data sound "control channel" on 769.53750 is back on the air from the Middlesex Boro site. Time will tell whether this will be used for voice and data, or just as a data system only...

 

[johnls7424]

Even if they switch to OPENSKY it's very doubtful that many municipality's will stay with them. There're are quite a few who are unhappy already with the EDACS system and its notorious dead-zones. Especially for fireground ops. Even here in South Plainfield many EMS and even police complain of dead-zones within its system. Plus audio quality isn't there either even though digital.

 

[RadioDitch]

It's all fun, technology, and grants until someone gets hurt when it doesn't work. :-(

 

[Evgeni]

If they do adopt Open Sky, their Open Sky would not be compatible with Pennsylvania's, right?

 

[Analogrules]

Is it normal to not be able to hear the Middlesex County EDACS system from eastern Union County using the stock antenna on BCD436? I know it's slightly off topic, but didn't want to start a whole new thread for such a quick question.