Midland petitions FCC for waiver to allow data Tx from non-handheld GMRS radios

[vagrant]

I put the docket number as the subject. The body should have the docket number and or the rule number and your name. I simply noted what would be a problem and why, as well as an alternative and further suggestions. I also noted what I agreed with and why.

 

[K6GBW]

ND5Y, much appreciated!

 

[K6GBW]

Wow, can we all agree the FCC has the worst website on the planet!

 

[kc49425]

Ok what if Digital Voice could be used on GMRS/FRS like DMR, or NXDEN? Yay or Nay?

 

[alcahuete]

Ok what if Digital Voice could be used on GMRS/FRS like DMR, or NXDEN? Yay or Nay?

Been brought up here many, many times. Suggest doing a search, and you'll see pretty much every positive and negative known to man.

 

[NC1]

Ok what if Digital Voice could be used on GMRS/FRS like DMR, or NXDEN? Yay or Nay?

It would essentially render the service useless to the other 99.95% who use analog voice, because the 20 or 30 people in a given area who want DMR will put up their own repeaters (and they WILL want their own personal repeaters) on all the available repeater pairs. Those who want to use digital modes can go get their Amateur license if they are all that tech savvy as they claim, and if they can't pass the Technician license exam then quite frankly I don't think they have what it takes to be using digital on any platform and have no business using anything other than simple analog voice.

 

[KC3ECJ]

Why don't they use the 900mhz ISM band if they want to do these sorts of things?

 

[Chrontius]

Because there's more or less one single proprietary ISM radio standard available, and it doesn't do repeaters, amongst other reasons.

 

[n1das]

Because there's more or less one single proprietary ISM radio standard available, and it doesn't do repeaters, amongst other reasons.

There is a repeater available for the Motorola DTR and DLR radios.

Cane Wireless - DRX digital repeater

Two-Way business radios and accessories

www.canewirelesspro.com

ISM is not the way to go for GMRS. I would love to be able to use DMR, P25, and NXDN legally on GMRS but that probably will never happen.

 

[NC1]

I would love to be able to use DMR, P25, and NXDN legally on GMRS but that probably will never happen.

Why don't you just use those modes on amateur radio since you already have the license to do so? That is the precisely the service to do all your experimenting, and it is encouraged.

 

[DeoVindice]

Why don't you just use those modes on amateur radio since you already have the license to do so? That is the precisely the service to do all your experimenting, and it is encouraged.

Because amateur is not the answer to all communications needs. Imdividual licensing takes it out of consideration for routine family usage. GMRS is for practical use, not "experimentation" (using established commercial modes is not experimental in any case).

 

[NC1]

Because amateur is not the answer to all communications needs. Imdividual licensing takes it out of consideration for routine family usage. GMRS is for practical use, not "experimentation" (using established commercial modes is not experimental in any case).

So you are saying your family can't routinely communicate properly with analog? There are thousands of people using analog for routine family use daily without any issues as long as they use the service within it's capabilities. If that is not acceptable, then maybe another radio service should be looked into for the family. Why are they all so sold on DMR, P25, and NXDN if they aren't tech savvy enough to pass an elementary amateur radio license?

 

[DeoVindice]

So you are saying your family can't routinely communicate properly with analog? There are thousands of people using analog for routine family use daily without any issues as long as they use the service within it's capabilities. If that is not acceptable, then maybe another radio service should be looked into for the family. Why are they all so sold on DMR, P25, and NXDN if they aren't tech savvy enough to pass an elementary amateur radio license?

Digital offers better voice clarity, better spectral efficiency (in the case of DMR or NXDN 4800), and better rejection of interference that mimics/defeats PL tones. That's before getting into embedded ID, private calling, and other data applications.

It makes no sense to attempt to restrict more effective communications to amateur licensees only. You have a strange hangup on the amateur service. Keying up a digital radio requires no more tech-savviness than keying up an analog radio; that's a red herring.

I personally hold an LMR license for my side business and use P25, but that's not an option for everyone. We use full-time encryption, TMS, and enjoy the generally superior intelligibility and lack of background noise. I'd like for those benefits to be available to GMRS and FRS users. If there was going to be a problem with digital personal radio, it would have appeared with DPMR446.

 

[NC1]

Digital offers better voice clarity, better spectral efficiency (in the case of DMR or NXDN 4800), and better rejection of interference that mimics/defeats PL tones. That's before getting into embedded ID, private calling, and other data applications.

It makes no sense to attempt to restrict more effective communications to amateur licensees only. You have a strange hangup on the amateur service. Keying up a digital radio requires no more tech-savviness than keying up an analog radio; that's a red herring.

I personally hold an LMR license for my side business and use P25, but that's not an option for everyone. We use full-time encryption, TMS, and enjoy the generally superior intelligibility and lack of background noise. I'd like for those benefits to be available to GMRS and FRS users. If there was going to be a problem with digital personal radio, it would have appeared with DPMR446.

All that is nothing more than specifications, and as far as voice is concerned the digital vs analog issue has been beaten to death already. You have a fascination with digital being put on GMRS, I can't figure that out since you have so many other available options. Any benefit by using digital modes on GMRS will be unnoticeable, or negligible at best, for the other 99.99% of those who paid for their license - but now you want them to spend 10 times the money for a radio simply because you like digital.
Who the heck wants to hear that digital garbage on an analog radio? Plus you are completely defeating any emergency use capabilities where interoperability is concerned. Why ruin it for the other users when you can easily use another radio service?

 

[DeoVindice]

All that is nothing more than specifications, and as far as voice is concerned the digital vs analog issue has been beaten to death already. You have a fascination with digital being put on GMRS, I can't figure that out since you have so many other available options. Any benefit by using digital modes on GMRS will be unnoticeable, or negligible at best, for the other 99.99% of those who paid for their license - but now you want them to spend 10 times the money for a radio simply because you like digital.
Who the heck wants to hear that digital garbage on an analog radio? Plus you are completely defeating any emergency use capabilities where interoperability is concerned. Why ruin it for the other users when you can easily use another radio service?

You're putting words into my mouth. I have no such fascination; I'd simply like to see the option made available to those who would benefit from it. I could care less what anybody else buys - whether they use Chinesium or an XPR7550E, provided the thing functions properly it doesn't matter. The cost differential you mentioned doesn't really exist, either. $100-200 Chinese DMR radios are all over now; digital doesn't necessarily mean APX. If you don't want to hear digital noise, use a receive tone.

Emergency interoperability? You can't be serious. That barely exists on FRS/GMRS now because of the PL/"Privacy" tone number situation and lack of user understanding. Very few digital-only radios exist; analog is always there as a full-back and mixed-mode operation is also viable. Planning to use FRS/GMRS in emergencies to communicate with unknown entities is simply planning for failure. If you plan to use radios in an emergency, I suggest you determine who you need to communicate with and coordinate with them in advance, to include testing.

Intelligent implementation of digital voice and data on FRS/GMRS won't "ruin" anything for anyone. If anything, it will improve the service as a whole by allowing 2-4 times as many talkpaths depending on the standard selected, in addition to the benefits already mentioned.

 

[n1das]

Why don't you just use those modes on amateur radio since you already have the license to do so? That is the precisely the service to do all your experimenting, and it is encouraged.

I already do use P25 and DMR on amateur radio. I would love to be able to legally use P25 and DMR on GMRS but that probably will never happen. Midland's petition may be a small step toward someday allowing digital voice on GMRS.

 

[SQP]

I already do use P25 and DMR on amateur radio.

And you're STILL not satisfied?!?!?!?

I would love to be able to legally use P25 and DMR on GMRS but that probably will never happen.

I would love have a GAZILLION dollars, live forever, have sex with any woman I please, and eat shrimp AND lobster...ALL DAY!!!!. But that probably will NEVER happen.

This desire to fix something that's not broken NEEDS to stop.

 

[KC3ECJ]

Digital offers better voice clarity, better spectral efficiency (in the case of DMR or NXDN 4800), and better rejection of interference that mimics/defeats PL tones. That's before getting into embedded ID, private calling, and other data applications.

It makes no sense to attempt to restrict more effective communications to amateur licensees only. You have a strange hangup on the amateur service. Keying up a digital radio requires no more tech-savviness than keying up an analog radio; that's a red herring.

I personally hold an LMR license for my side business and use P25, but that's not an option for everyone. We use full-time encryption, TMS, and enjoy the generally superior intelligibility and lack of background noise. I'd like for those benefits to be available to GMRS and FRS users. If there was going to be a problem with digital personal radio, it would have appeared with DPMR446.

Digital sounds robotic and I find it can't handle higher pitched voices as well. It isn't more clear to me.

 

[AK9R]

Didn't we talk about this...15 TABS AGO in another thread?!?!?!?! Let sleeping dogs lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree. This thread is about Midland's petition to allow data over GMRS. Let's leave the digital voice over GMRS debate for another thread.

 

[kg7jqh]

Total noob here, but I'm thinking they are trying to implement something similar to the GME service over in Australia that can report GPS positioning. Their statement involved off-road use, and something about "once every 30 seconds" or something like that. I can't imagine this was meant for voice in any way. Could this "beaconing" be sub-audible?