Might this spread?

Status
Not open for further replies.

kc2asb

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
2,246
Reaction score
3,613
Location
NYC Area
The way I read that article, The act is to only give the media access to the encrypted transmissions.

Does nothing for us average Joe Scanner User.
Correct, and it still has to be signed by the Governor. The NYPD is opposed to the Bill. It is certainly progress, but I am not clear as to how it could be an avenue to opening up access to the public.

But as said above, baby steps. :)
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
28,440
Reaction score
36,270
Location
United States
Opening access to encrypted communications defeats the purpose of encryption.

Giving media access is probably the middle ground/happy place you can hope for. If it passes.

How they deal with "credentialed media" definition will be the challenge. Anyone with a YouTube channel isn't going to get access….
 

MTS2000des

5B2_BEE00 Czar
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
8,978
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
Opening access to encrypted communications defeats the purpose of encryption.

Giving media access is probably the middle ground/happy place you can hope for. If it passes.

How they deal with "credentialed media" definition will be the challenge. Anyone with a YouTube channel isn't going to get access….
Everyone is the media. This won't go anywhere.
 

BinaryMode

Blondie Once Said To Call Her But Never Answerd
Banned
Joined
Jul 3, 2023
Messages
1,302
Reaction score
659
Location
2600 dialtone blvd
CJI/PII requirements pertains to personal information like running DLs and license plates. Often times that's done on a Tac channel or MDT, NOT dispatch... Which to me is a marvelous joke like HIPAA when data brokers know more about you then the "evil NSA." In fact, I have over a terabyte of leaked databases. Give me just a first name and town and I'll find you... Heck, all I need is the BSSID of your network and I'll find you. Did it to all my gaming friends. For those that didn't cough that Info. up I went to the tax assessor. The bottom line is that NOTHING in this world is private. Europe has a better handle on it than we do.

Media access is needed. This is NOT Nazi Germany!
 

kc2asb

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
2,246
Reaction score
3,613
Location
NYC Area
Yes, however delayed feeds don't meet the CJI/PII requirements from the DOJ/FBI. So while those may be available now, it's not likely to be a long term solution.
One would think that both cities got the blessing of their corporation counsel before putting these feeds up, but I'm only speculating. Anyway. I know that you know your stuff and respect your knowledge. Only time will tell.
 

ladn

Explorer of the Frequency Spectrum
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,735
Reaction score
2,020
Location
Southern California and sometimes Owens Valley
How they deal with "credentialed media" definition will be the challenge. Anyone with a YouTube channel isn't going to get access….
Depends a lot on the agency's media policy. When I was a photographer and (later) an editor, one needed a request/verification letter from one's employer (with a job that needed such access), then there were the basic background questions and CII fingerprint check.

Freelancers had to provide verification letters from their media clients and sometimes clippings (or "reels").

Because of litigious You Tubers, and "alt media" agencies (at least here in SoCal) have had to rethink their media policies.

(I miss the days of Lt. Dan Cooke, LAPD, and his colleagues: Dan Cooke; LAPD's Longtime Spokesman, TV Show Consultant)
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
28,440
Reaction score
36,270
Location
United States
CJI/PII requirements pertains to personal information like running DLs and license plates. Often times that's done on a Tac channel or MDT, NOT dispatch...

Depends on the agency. Not all of them have multiple channels or talk groups.

Which to me is a marvelous joke like HIPAA

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Europe has a better handle on it than we do.

Europe uses a lot of encryption. Maybe someday we'll have a better handle on it also.

Media access is needed.

I agree, to a reasonable extent.

This is NOT Nazi Germany!

Some are really trying to take things in that direction.
 

BinaryMode

Blondie Once Said To Call Her But Never Answerd
Banned
Joined
Jul 3, 2023
Messages
1,302
Reaction score
659
Location
2600 dialtone blvd
Europe uses a lot of encryption. Maybe someday we'll have a better handle on it also.

I said the following:

The One & Only said:
The bottom line is that NOTHING in this world is private. Europe has a better handle on it than we do.

I'm obviously referring to their (Europe) common sense approach to privacy in all its facets, not just radio communication. The inference here was the protection of DLs and licensee plate information being transmitted over the air and a federal requirement to protect that. Just like HIPAA et al. Just given the fact that in the United States data brokers are allowed to do business tells me everything I need to know about the REAL expediency of protecting one's "personal Information" like DLs and license plates and whatnot over the air.

This whole CJI/PII requirement thing is nothing but FUD if you ask me. Well, that's my personal opinion. Blanket NSA approved encryption doesn't serve the public good nor the media during times of a crises like an earthquake, tornado, wildfire, dam break, public health warning like a tipped over train of methal-ester-death, etc. Especially when TAC channels and MDTs exist to stay compliant with CJI/PII. Yes, some departments only have a dispatch channel, but this is not true for places like Baltimore, Philly, NY, LA, Chicago, Miami, Denver, San Fran. etc. A delayed dispatch only feed is a very reasonable approach to the problem of a public and media black out in my humble opinion.

I yield back the balance of my time. Honestly can't believe a mod approved my post. I should play the lottery... LOL!

PS:

Fundamental logic, reason and common sense goes a long way and there's an abundant LACK of that at the local, state and federal government level. And I'm almost willing to bet that if the Founding Fathers were alive today they say to the people REVOLT!

PPS:

Encryption works where it is needed most. NOT where it is not needed.
 
Last edited:

kc2asb

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
2,246
Reaction score
3,613
Location
NYC Area
Depends on the agency. Not all of them have multiple channels or talk groups.
Large cities like NYC, Chicago and Baltimore, etc certainly do. Even the small city I live in (pop 65k) had multiple channels as far back as the late 80's when I started listening to them. When they went to a P25 system over 15 years ago, they kept dispatch in the clear and had encrypted TGs for detectives, narcotics units, etc. Two years ago, everything went encrypted, including the FD.

As long as confidential information is only transmitted over a secure channel/talk group or data terminal, delayed dispatch-only feeds should meet DOJ requirements. Dispatch could even be left unencrypted for that matter.
 

AES_Master

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2025
Messages
7
Reaction score
2
Last time i checked, the FEDERAL communications commission regulates how the electromagnetic spectrum is governed... some state level bill has no bearing on how a radio system operates.... this is just toilet paper to appease a voter base.
 

wa8pyr

Retired and playing radio whenever I want.
Staff member
Lead Database Admin
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Messages
8,162
Reaction score
5,081
Location
Ohio
Last time i checked, the FEDERAL communications commission regulates how the electromagnetic spectrum is governed... some state level bill has no bearing on how a radio system operates.... this is just toilet paper to appease a voter base.
Encryption is a completely separate issue, and the FCC does not govern use of encryption. All they do is allocate use of frequencies and modes (FM, AM, narrow FM etc). They don't do anything with encryption, which is strictly a local decision. If the state wants to mandate that the media be allowed access to certain encrypted channels, they can do that; as @mmckenna noted, it's probably the best NYC-ites can hope for.
 

N4DES

Retired 0598 Czar ÆS Ø
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
2,613
Reaction score
592
Location
South FL
Encryption is a completely separate issue, and the FCC does not govern use of encryption. All they do is allocate use of frequencies and modes (FM, AM, narrow FM etc). They don't do anything with encryption, which is strictly a local decision. If the state wants to mandate that the media be allowed access to certain encrypted channels, they can do that; as @mmckenna noted, it's probably the best NYC-ites can hope for.
They do set the technical and some operational standards for the utilization of encryption in the rules, but yes, they do not mandate any operational requirements with regards to 3rd parties and the use thereof in Part 90.

§ 90.212 Provisions relating to the use of scrambling devices and digital voice modulation.​


(a) Analog scrambling techniques may be employed at any station authorized the use of A3E, F3E, or G3E emission, subject to the provision of paragraph (d) of this section.

(b) The use of digital scrambling techniques or digital voice modulation requires the specific authorization of F1E or G1E emission, and these emissions will only be authorized subject to the provisions of paragraph (d) of this section.

(c) The transmission of any non-voice information or data under the authorization of F1E or G1E emission is prohibited. However, stations authorized the use of F1E or G1E emission may also be authorized F1D, F2D, G1D or G2D emission for non-voice communication purposes, pursuant to § 90.207(l).

(d) Station identification shall be transmitted in the unscrambled analog mode (clear voice) or Morse code in accordance with the provisions of § 90.425. All digital encoding and digital modulation shall be disabled during station identification.

and

§ 90.553 Encryption.​


(a) Encryption is permitted on all but the two nationwide Interoperability calling channels. Radios employing encryption must have a readily accessible switch or other readily accessible control that permits the radio user to disable encryption.

(b) If encryption is employed, then transmitters manufactured after August 11, 2014 must use the Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) specified in ANSI/TIA-102.AAAD-A. Until 2030, manufacturers may also include the Digital Encryption Standard (DES) or Triple Data Encryption Algorithm (TDEA), in addition to but not in place of AES, for compatibility with legacy radios that lack AES capability.

(c) ANSI/TIA-102.AAAD-A: Project 25 Digital Land Mobile Radio-Block Encryption Protocol, approved August 20, 2009 is incorporated by reference into this section with the approval of the Director of the Federal Register in accordance with 5 U.S.C. 552(a) and 1 CFR part 51. This incorporation by reference (IBR) material is available for inspection at the FCC and at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). Contact the FCC through the Federal Communications Commission's Reference Information Center, phone: (202) 418-0270. For information on the availability of this material at NARA, visit www.archives.gov/federal-register/cfr/ibr-locations.html or email fr.inspection@nara.gov. The material may be obtained from the following sources:
(1) Telecommunications Industry Association (TIA), 2500 Wilson Boulevard, Arlington, VA 22201; website: Telecommunications Industry Association | TIAonline.org | Home.
(2) S&P Global Standards Store, 15 Inverness Way East, Englewood, CO 80112; website: https://global.ihs.com.
(3) American National Standards Institute (ANSI), 25 West 43rd Street, Fourth Floor, New York, NY 10036; website: www.ansi.org.
 

mc48

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Messages
869
Reaction score
635
Location
Monroe County, NY
NYS sells driver's license and registration information, so saying they are protecting that info is false.
They collect over $63 million in fees annually for this "service".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top