Misc 2021 documents

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zerg901

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here are a few documents with 2021 freqs - mostly wildfire channels - Yellowstone Natl Park also (looks the same as previous years listings)

https://www.nifc.gov/sites/default/files/blm/aviation/BLMlibrary/NAP.pdf
- 2021 BLM fire aviation plan (USA wide)

https://gacc.nifc.gov/rmcc/dispatch_centers/r2cdc/dispatch/Dispatch_folder/SHFRadioFreqGuide.xlsx
- shoshone nf 2021 freqs

https://rvfca.specialdistrict.org/files/1f34d352c/4.09+RVFCA+Frequency+List+-+2021.pdf
- oregon - rogue valley 2021 freqs

https://www.scofmp.org/files/SCOFMP_Recon_DetectionPlan_2021.docx -
lakeview oregon 2021

https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inc...latin/2021 CGNF Aviation briefing packet.docx
- custer gallatin - mt - freqs - p25
 

es93546

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Now that you have posted these links, expect them to be non operational within a week or two. Way to go! Some of us have been using some of these to make submissions and posts for a few years, now we will lose some more. Crap!
 

es93546

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"here are a few documents with 2021 freqs - mostly wildfire channels - Yellowstone Natl Park also (looks the same as previous years listings)"

I didn't see any National Park Service frequencies in here, so I'm not sure why you say this. The document only has 20 pages, further mystifying me.

One of the reasons these documents are kept from public access is that they have the names of employees and their cell phone numbers, not just office numbers. No wonder a lot of people in these agencies strongly dislike us. The frequency information alone will remove these from public access, let alone phone numbers. What are you thinking?
 

zerg901

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these documents have been showing up randomly on the Net for the last 20 years or so - I dont expect much difference in the future - you can see the thread about IAPs in the CA forum for more info
 

es93546

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these documents have been showing up randomly on the Net for the last 20 years or so - I dont expect much difference in the future - you can see the thread about IAPs in the CA forum for more info

Wrong, there used to be far more of them that could be found with some very hard work in the last 10 years, right after federal frequency information was reclassified. The huge amount of directories that had been readily available started to disappear. Then, as links to those sites with information still available minus a password were posted, those same links began to disappear. This situation has been discussed on other threads and people stopped posting them. Your posting of these links you have found are the first in about a year, maybe more. A lot of people have posted that they agree with me and that they have seen links disappear after they are posted. The number of hits on official websites is one clue that is used to find unsecured info. That and, I believe our threads are monitored. Just watch how fast these links will disappear.

You are wrong about these links showing up randomly, they show up due to oversights. You now have widely advertised these oversights.

The IAP's are available when resource unit leaders on fires forget to file them in secure locations. Posting those has led to them being filed correctly. They are only available due to oversights and the links to them should not be posted. I'm almost positive this subject is discussed in meetings for incident management teams and covered in training for resource unit leaders and plans chiefs. I was a resource unit leader at one time and I know the kinds of discussions that occur in yearly refreshers.

The fact that this has been an issue in the past and has been discussed in a few threads with lots of posts makes me wonder about the memory of some people.
 

Baker845

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I would agree, i haven't seen links in over year. Once they get posted they disappear very fast .
 

B

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A few crotchety complainers here, my goodness...Okay, one crotchety complainer...Funny that he/she already had the info and is now upset that others have it...And believes only his/her opinion is correct and the only right one.

I'm just going to say thank you to the original poster... zerg901
 

AM909

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A few crotchety complainers here, my goodness...Okay, one crotchety complainer...Funny that he/she already had the info and is now upset that others have it...And believes only his/her opinion is correct and the only right one.

I'm just going to say thank you to the original poster... zerg901
My count is one complainer, one who agrees with the underlying complaint in a more subdued way, and at least one more that agrees with the complaint quietly. I have similar problems with revealing things that do not have much value in understanding system construction or in monitoring, like RIDs and encryption key numbers. That stuff just gives more fuel to the folks that would like to see us (as in RRDB) gone. Not that they are likely to be able, but still, why poke the bear?
 

natedawg1604

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Looks like there's only frequencies for a few states. Some of it is pretty interesting in terms of procedures and terminology for the air resources.
 
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cajunjerry

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"here are a few documents with 2021 freqs - mostly wildfire channels - Yellowstone Natl Park also (looks the same as previous years listings)"

I didn't see any National Park Service frequencies in here, so I'm not sure why you say this. The document only has 20 pages, further mystifying me.

One of the reasons these documents are kept from public access is that they have the names of employees and their cell phone numbers, not just office numbers. No wonder a lot of people in these agencies strongly dislike us. The frequency information alone will remove these from public access, let alone phone numbers. What are you thinking?
Just like most people put their phone numbers on public accessible documents ..
 

danesgs

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Back in the 1980's, folks in the DC area kept hand written lists based on what they heard and surmised as to what agency was talking. This was before Tom Knietel even published his books. These lists were passed between individual hobbyists and rarely were seen by anyone but them (way before the internet) The feds back then made friends with scanner hobbyists and even brought some of the more experienced into their fold as techs. Today you can find some hiccup on the federal side that was never suppose to be on a unsecured site and then the site gets taken down. I agree with not posting certain things you have found that may be a mistake. We all make those, even the federal radio folks. I don't thing they "hate us", they just watch us a lot :)

Greg-KJ4DGE
 

icom1020

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The 2017 PNW aviation guide comes to mind. It had several previous years before it was advertised
 

es93546

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A few crotchety complainers here, my goodness...Okay, one crotchety complainer...Funny that he/she already had the info and is now upset that others have it...And believes only his/her opinion is correct and the only right one.

I'm just going to say thank you to the original poster... zerg901

You disagree with what I posted, it is certainly OK to express that. However, I don't understand why you have to insult me while expressing that disagreement. I raised an issue I have a great deal of experience with and am not "crotchety" for expressing my view. This topic has been discussed on other threads in the past and zerg901 was a part of the discussion. Nearly every person on those other threads agreed that posting links was not productive, most often resulting in the link being shut down. Why he disregarded these discussions is puzzling.

When I find sources of information I don't advertise them. This does not mean I horde the info for my own uses. I share the info by making database submissions. This is how info should be shared. I've made a lot of submissions since I joined in 2002. I've written a lot of wiki articles where I further share the information.

I have a lot of experience obtaining information relative to natural resource/land management/wildland fire management agencies. I spend a great deal of time finding sources, both on the internet and in person with those who still work for those agencies. In the past every link that is advertised has been closed down at some point.

Looks like there's only frequencies for a few states. Some of it is pretty interesting in terms of procedures and terminology for the air resources.

Links to state and local frequency use are not the problem as their frequency use is shown in their FCC licenses. Federal agency information is completely different as federal policy prohibits release of frequency information to the public. Federal agencies have call signs that use the FCC format, however, the licenses are issued by the NTIA. The NTIA does not post its license information and hasn't since approximately 1981 or 1982.

The 2017 PNW aviation guide comes to mind. It had several previous years before it was advertised

This is a great example of what happens after someone posts a link. I had been accessing the PNW Aviation Guide for many years and was able to update the database using that information. Someone working for the wildland fire agencies got wind of the link being posted and we haven't been able to access guides for subsequent years. I think the 2017 guide could be accessed for several months since the horse had already escaped through the open barn door, but the door was shut afterwards.

There was another instance of this. There was an aviation guide or aviation briefing document for the Southern GACC. I had access to this guide for several years, but someone posted the link and it was shut down rather quickly, within a week as I recall.

In one instance I found a guide for the Great Basin GACC just before my wife and I went out to dinner with some friends. We were running late and I told my wife we had to be a few minutes later. I made sure I downloaded the document in spite of her being upset we were late. After about 2-3 hours we returned home. I reentered the URL and the link had already been shut down.

What people fail to understand is that some agency IT people are monitoring the volume and locations of computers that are using a link. If they get thousands of hits starting on a particular day they know it isn't due to employees using their agency computers. They then secure the information in a password protected file. The volume of hits makes their oversights evident.

One week since posting, and the links are still good. SHOCKER!!!

Your sarcasm is noted. When access to this information is removed I will not, in turn, post a message using the same tone.


My main interest in the scanning hobby is listening to land management/natural resource/wildland fire management agencies. I put those agencies in their own scanner banks or scanner systems. Often times it is the only thing I listen to when traveling. I spent a great deal of time searching for sources. I have a file of links and have closely tracked when they disappear. Nearly every time I've had to delete a link in that file it follows the posting of that link on this website.

If you disagree with my position on this, fine. Just don't insult those who you disagree with. Building a civilization requires that we are civil to each other.
 

B

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Now you say to those that disagree with you to not “insult” you. What you fail to realize is that when someone posts something you don’t agree with, or is not in line with what you have experienced, your response starts with “Wrong” and then goes on from there to tell a story to the person you are responding to, and all of us, why they are wrong, just read your response to the original poster. I also find it hilarious that you believe that there is a difference between someone finding something on the internet, and posting a link, to you finding something on the internet, or better yet, getting some inside information, then submitting it to the database or writing a wiki article for it to be published. Isn’t the bottom line that the info is still published and now in the public domain? I don’t get it, please help me understand why your way is the only right way when all methods result in the information being put out in the public domain. Like those agency IT people you refer to are not sharp and enough to dig in a bit and look at a wiki page and figure out a source? Believe it or not, you are not the only one with IMT experience or large wildland fire management experience on these boards. Some of the statements you make, I have never seen or heard discussed, in my experience. Doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened, just means I haven’t seen or heard it. I’m certainly not starting my response to you or anyone else with “Wrong”. I don’t know you, or your experience, but my guess is you haven’t seen it all, nor have you experienced it all. I to have been in numerous IMT meetings where the IC is not spun up at all about the IAP or Comm Plan being posted on the internet. Same goes for an entire GACC meeting, not really worried about what’s on the internet, truly, bigger things to worry about. Not saying it hasn’t happened, just that I’ve never experienced it. Bottom line, you want respect, treat others with respect and realize that you don’t know it all or have experienced it all and that others with a different view are not “Wrong”.
 

ArkTex

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To be fair, posting TX and Encryption data is very, very wrong. Those things are kept private for a reason. I do enjoy looking through the files posted, but at this point pretty much every single federal frequency is headed towards encryption if their data gets posted here or anywhere else. It'll completely kill the minor federal listening potential that is even possible now.
 
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