Mobile Life Support, Ulster County...

[APX8000]

Mobile Life Support Services began using a new UHF repeater in Ulster County a few months back to lessen some traffic on 155.385R.

The new frequency is 451.8625R but it is set up very odd. Units calling "412" show a PL of 173.8 on the repeater output. When "412" answers, it show a PL of 162.2 on the repeater output. I also get PL 67.0 for the morse code ID.

Why would a repeater be set up like this and how is it passing multiple PL's through the repeater ? I also want to add when the base transmits out of Newburgh to the repeater, it transmits 458.8625 with a PL of 156.7.

If anyone can figure this one out, please post. FCC shows the frequency as a trunked channel belonging to Goosetown.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Maybe they don't want the mobiles to be able to chit-chat or hear each other. A lot of taxicab systems are set up that way.

 

[FIRECOM31]

Mobile Life UHF

The pl's are use to control the UHF link to the several sites they use in Orange , Ulster

 

[APX8000]

The pl's are use to control the UHF link to the several sites they use in Orange , Ulster

MLSS does not use UHF in Orange County, they use VHF 155.385R with repeaters in Beacon and Circleville.

They used to have a Newburgh back-up repeater in Meadow Hill, but that has since been taken down. They also had repeaters up on Schunnemunk and New Paltz that have also been taken off the air. I'm not sure if the 385 Kingston site is still up.

They did use UHF link to the various sites, but the frequencies and PL they used to use are no longer active.

The UHF Repeater is strickly for Ulster County units and is licensed only on Sams Point. What I'm trying to determine is why the repeater is set up a certain way.

458.8625 PL 156.7 from the Newburgh dispatch center repeats on 453.8625 PL 162.2. I don't know what the field units transmit on, but it is repeated on 453.8625 PL 173.8. So to hear both the base and units on the same repeater frequency, you have to either program two separate channels with different PL's or leave it CSQ. Doesn't make sense.

If anyone "in the know" can shed some light on the new system I'd appreciate it.

As NF2G posted, maybe they don't want the mobiles to chit-chat or hear each other, which would be stupid for interop purposes, especially if they are responding to the same call.

 

[SCANdal]

e911,

458.8625? 453.8625?

SCANdal

 

[APX8000]

Oops...should be 451.8625R with an input of 456.8625.

 

[EKennett]

Hey all, I don't know if this is still an active discussion, but there are some new developments on this topic.

First, I work for Mobile Life, both on the road and the dispatch center. Yes, there is a UHF repeater that was activated not too long ago in the middle Ulster County area, but nobody actually uses this frequency. All of the mobiles are set up on the VHF frequency and none of them communicate with "412" base on UHF... for now. There are 3 towers used by the base to communicate, all of them use the same frequency, just with different PL's. The receive PL's are all the same, it's just the inputs that are different. The tower used for northern Ulster county operations is now on Mount Esopus, not Snake Hill.

In the very near future, MLSS will be switching to Goosetown's Wide Area Passport system. I still don't know very much about this system, as I have been having a hard time locating information, and what little I can find doesn't make that much sense to me (it seems this is not a normal trunked system that can be tracked by our current scanner technology). I am actually going to a meeting a little later today to be trained on the system, so I will report back. As best I can tell this is the same system Regional and NDP are using.

 

[APX8000]

EKennett...you are posting in a thread that's over two years old. For the latest in Orange County scanner information, go to East Coast Scanning Resources and click on the Orange County tab. SCANdal and I maintain it and the information is updated when changes are made.

Speaking of Mobile Life now...you said they will be switching over to Goosetown's Passport system in the near future. It will actually be as of Wednesday, April 29 at 9:00am. How's that for being in the know.

Here is some more of what I know. They will have 6 talkgroups and one "system-wide." Each county they operate in will have two talkgroups set up as follows:

ORANGE 1
ORANGE 2
ULSTER 1
ULSTER 2
DUTCHESS 1
DUTCHESS 2

All traffic for each county will be on the "1" talkgroup. If their is a major incident in the county, the dispatcher can send the incident to the "2" channel to have direct comms while keeping the dispatch frequency open.

The system will allow for full-roaming and units auto-affiliate to the closest site. In other words, if a Newburgh unit does a transport to Albany, he will stay on the OC 1 talkgroup. His radio will affiliate with the closest site as he travels up the Thruway...no need to change channels. So the radio may start on Beacon but as he goes north it will switch to Esopus then Austerlitz. When he arrives in Albany, he'll talk back to the dispatcher from the same OC 1 talkgroup, but off Austerliz tower. Dispatch will hear him on OC 1 off the Beacon tower (since that is the tower the base is closest to). No guessing which tower you are closest to, and no guessing on the dispatchers part either.

Orange County units will only hear Orange County traffic. Even though the system is full-roaming, the TG's are specific. If an Orange County unit wants to talk to an Ulster County unit, he will have to switch to the UC 1 talkgroup. But, he will be able to talk to him from a portable in Warwick which the Ulster unit is on a portable in Woodstock.

One problem with Passport...you cannot scan. The radio samples the control channels every two seconds. So whatever TG you are on is what you stay on. The "system-wide" is actually a dispatcher feature where the dispatcher simulcasts over all "1" talkgroups at the same time.

If you would like to see the coverage area of the system, click on Goosetown Communications and then click "wide-area."

One more note...no scanners currently scan Passport LTR. The only way to monitor it is conventionally by putting every frequency in with a zero delay. But you'll hear everyone on the system...buses, tow trucks, snow plows since they all share the frequencies.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I wonder if MLSS will have the came capability as NYC-DEC to affiliate to the Wells Communications PassPort site in the Helderbergs.

 

[62Truck]

Personally I think its a waste of money, sounds like a good idea, with the roaming, but still a waste of money..just my opinion..

 

[onsceno]

So no more dispatch over .385 then??? I really don't want to have to carry around another portable just to monitor MLSS.............

 

[sc800]

How would this affect local EMS agencies who need to monitor MLSS? I know they can always get them through 718 or Ulster County, but I think it would be easier to be monitoring their own frequency.

 

[APX8000]

How would this affect local EMS agencies who need to monitor MLSS? I know they can always get them through 718 or Ulster County, but I think it would be easier to be monitoring their own frequency.

None of the local EMS agencies NEED to monitor MLSS. MLSS needs to monitor the local agency on the local EMS agency's frequency.

All EMS agencies in Orange and Ulster are on VHF. MLSS will have their UHF Passport radio on the MLSS talkgroup for the county they are in. They will receive the initial dispatch and subsequent enroute, on scene, etc. comms will be on that TG with their dispatcher. They will switch their VHF radio to the local agency or 718 or Ulster County, etc. and call the same. This way they can monitor both agencies directly instead of having to scan/switch channels and possibly miss information. Dutchess is all pretty much UHF so the portable or mobile will go on the county channel, Passport radio on MLSS.

So no more dispatch over .385 then??? I really don't want to have to carry around another portable just to monitor MLSS.............

Nope...385 is going bye-bye. However, it will still be up and running as a back-up with the same three towers currently in use. As far as being able to monitor them on "another portable," good luck. Passport uses electronic serial number (ESN) validation. So unless your ESN is in the Passport LTR Controller, you will not get their talkgroup. Like I said before, passport cannot be monitored with a scanner either, unless you do it conventionally with a zero delay scan...and you'll still hear ALL traffic over those frequencies, not just the talkgroup you want.

The reason for Passport has come about is because Joe Taxi contracts a fleet of six vehicles for use on ABC Communications LTR system. Well, DEF Communications wants to sell Joe Taxi sone radios. So he tells Joe, hey I can program these up for you and ABC will never know they are on the system. So Joe gets billed by ABC for 6 radios but actually has ten radios up and running. There was no validation and ABC lost money. Passport fixes that. And with Passport, you can auto affiliate and roam between sites. In Orange County for example, a Regional EMS unit in Newburgh on Beacon LTR couldn't talk to a unit in Blooming Grove on Schunnemunk or to a Warwick unit on Mt. Peter, and couldn'rt hear each other unless they were scanning each system and within range. Now they can all talk seemlessly.

Personally I think its a waste of money, sounds like a good idea, with the roaming, but still a waste of money..just my opinion..

Considering what they do and the coverage they alreay have and that they are keeping 385 as a back up, yeah I'd say a bit costly. I think in the long run it would be cheaper to just put up another site or two. As far as not having to switch channels...talk back voting. If the dispatcher really wants to know where a unit is, AVL.

Passport does have it's benefits and for the coverage at about $35 a month per radio, it's not that bad. NYCOMCO charges $55 to $65 per radio and that's for one site and a three year lease. Trust me, I know. So with Passport you get more sites for less.

Now if you want to talk about a waste of money, think of all the PD's in the area that use NYCOMCO's EDACS and how many radios, mobile and portable they are paying for each month. Out of those, how many go out per shift. You do the math. You could literally pay for the cost of your own repeater and all the radios in one year for the same cost as leasing it and owning nothing. But hey, I'm just a taxpayer...it's all about socialism now anyway...

 

[62Truck]

So your saying that you can not take a passport radio and monitor it that way? It seems smarter so the units are not stepping on each other, MLSS can get very busy on a good day, idk I'm just not fond of trunking systems..lol a friend of mine calls NYCOMCO NYTHEIFCO, I wouldn't want to even imagine how much these departments are shelling out each month, for each mobile portable or base that they have..lol no wonder why each NYCOMCO employee has there own vehicle..

passport is like LTR but just with roaming correct? Couldn't you just monitor the home channel, for each TG?

The EDACS system and NYCOMCO must know what they are doing though..

 

[pro92b]

passport is like LTR but just with roaming correct? Couldn't you just monitor the home channel, for each TG?

The EDACS system and NYCOMCO must know what they are doing though..

PassPort does not have the same protocol as LTR and no scanner will decode PassPort talkgroup ID's. As for NYCOMCO, their success depends more on customer ignorance than any special skill in their company. Many of their customers are local government agencies and large corporations. It is easier to gouge those kinds of customers, especially if it involves taxpayer dollars.

 

[62Truck]

Was talking to some one I know in MLSS last night, and from what he was telling me, it seems like the system doesn't work all the time, some spots it works and some spots it doesn't.

 

[pro92b]

It has been a year since I monitored the PassPort system and there have been many changes. The sites are busier now and most have added a channel along with more talkgroups. I'm hearing Mobile Life on 1-56-50021 (Orange Co.) and 1-56-50025 (Ulster & Dutchess). Have also logged 1-56-50020, 1-56-50023, and 1-56-50026 which are probably Moblie Life as well. Regional EMS has also added talkgroups, 1-56-50050 and 1-56-50052. The Beacon site is now in the 470 MHz range with four new channels. A site has been added in Shandaken but it is very weak here. I will try to update my files and submit it to NF2G.

 

[62Truck]

Just curious how are you monitoring the system? UniTrunker?

 

[pro92b]

Just curious how are you monitoring the system? UniTrunker?

I use LTRtrunker, a DOS program, to analyze the system and provide talkgroup information. It does have a tracking output but unfortunately is often slow to pick up activity so parts of transmissions may be missed. To avoid that problem I just park on the home channel and get most of the activity that way. My PRO-2006 has a good enough squelch circuit to make listening through the idle bursts tolerable. A low pass filtered data slicer is needed to make the program work along with a discriminator tap.

 

[APX8000]

Pro...what are the new 470 channels on Beacon. I still have the old 452's....probably why I don't hear any traffic on them as much.