Monroe/Ontario Phase II

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d_strong

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I'm trying to set up my BCD536HP to scan the Monroe/Ontario county system phase II . The BCD536HP is having some problems with the audio sometimes. I have been using a RS-800Mhz antenna with the scanner. Any tweaks for the audio would be a great help.
 

RF-Burns

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If you are in Monroe County put in only the Monroe County Control Channels same goes for if you are in Ontario. Audio clipping is a major issue using scanners on Multi Site Systems. Try using different antennas. The audio is clipping because the scanner is receiving more than one tower site and it's freaking out and doesn't know what to do. Try a directional antenna and point it directly at your closest tower or others have reported pointing a yagi at a distant tower. Also you can try a smaller antenna. Maybe one that's not for 7/800Mhz. Using an antenna for VHF might still receive your local tower but won't be very good at receiving a distant tower.
If all that fails buy a used Harris Portable like a P7200 or P7300 with Option 39 running RPM10 software so you can shut off Affiliation. Option 39 is P25 Trunking. The system is in Phase I so you don't need Option 47 Phase II yet. If they do ever switch to Phase II it's a few hundred dollar upgrade. As a last resort do even more research and figure out how to get a Motorola radio on the system. I can tell you that both commerical radio options work great and will out preform a scanner hands down. We can't talk about the Motorola option here though.

eBay has a few Harris 7200 and 7300s right now with Option 39. The guy will ever program it for you.


I'm trying to set up my BCD536HP to scan the Monroe/Ontario county system phase II . The BCD536HP is having some problems with the audio sometimes. I have been using a RS-800Mhz antenna with the scanner. Any tweaks for the audio would be a great help.
 
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stevez97

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Has the county switched over (totally) to Phase II? Last I heard they were primarily Phase I with random (testing) of Phase II.

Where are things at? (besides waaaaaaaaaaaaay behind on moving law enforcement over to the system.

Thanks for any assistance!
 

k2hz

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The system is primarily Phase I and will remain so for the Public Works TGs. EMS TG 1077 is nominally Phase II but the dispatcher is usually Phase I. TGs 1072-1077 switch between Phase I and Phase II depending on if a Phase II unit is active on the TG.

The typical pattern on TG 1077 seems to be that the call dispatch, which is patched to VHF, is Phase I. When the ambulance responds on the TRS it is Phase II but reverts to Phase I when the dispatcher acknowledges and remains Phase I for the remainder of that exchange. It is a similar situation if a Phase II ambulance is on the TGs 1072-1076 that are patches to VHF Fire.

Basically, the system is Phase I unless a Phase II unit is transmitting on the TG.
 

GTR8000

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Talkgroups 1072-1077 flagged in database as TDMA capable.
 

billyfromhill

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I'm having a whale of a time receiving the patched tones and EMS dispatcher. The units almost always come in decent but the tones and dispatcher are usually super choppy on my BCD996P2.
 

RF-Burns

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I'm having a whale of a time receiving the patched tones and EMS dispatcher. The units almost always come in decent but the tones and dispatcher are usually super choppy on my BCD996P2.
Welcome the multi-site distortion. Sell your scanner and buy a commercial radio or if you don't want to deal with commercial radios buy a Unication G4 or G5 pager. Until scanner manufacturers start using the technology available to them multi-site distortion will always be a problem and their scanners will always be subpar.
 

billyfromhill

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On the "Trunk Frequencies" tab for each site would putting in all the frequencies as opposed to just the control channels help?
 

RF-Burns

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On the "Trunk Frequencies" tab for each site would putting in all the frequencies as opposed to just the control channels help?
Negative you want to only put in one site usually the one closest to your house or maybe even a distant one. Scanners cannot decipher different sites like commercial radios or the Unication pagers.
 

billyfromhill

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Negative you want to only put in one site usually the one closest to your house or maybe even a distant one. Scanners cannot decipher different sites like commercial radios or the Unication pagers.
I have the scanner held on one TG on the closest site and it still comes in terrible. Sometimes the units are crystal clear with 0 errors and then when the dispatcher starts talking the errors jump up to 15+.
 

KA1RBI

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I'll bite back. Got an alternate explanation?
Dave

I too am very interested to have you describe (in detail) how a condition occurring on the analog side of the system would have any effect on digital error rates.

I don't get this need to tear down experts.... I have been an EMT, a security supervisor, and a volunteer firefighter .... I do usually know what I'm talking about ... I think the old expression might apply here: You have no idea who you are dealing with.
<snipped>

You've truly set a high bar. I think it would be very good for you to take this opportunity to show everyone what you're capable of. Can you please elucidate for those of us less talented than yourself?

73

Max
 

ThePagerGeek

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I'll bite back. Got an alternate explanation?
I'm more interested in YOUR suggestion. I'm curious why you think an "overdriven" analog condition would effect digital error. Keep it high level, I don't even care about great detail like Max (above) requests.

Quite frankly, your suggestion doesn't even make sense at a fundamental level.
 
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DaveNF2G

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If you know that my answer is wrong (to which I will concede), then you must also know the right answer, no?
 

KA1RBI

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If you know that my answer is wrong (to which I will concede), then you must also know the right answer, no?
Thanks Dave - I'll offer two possible hypotheses, with the added caveat that we're well into the realm of speculation here, and there are no guarantees on either of these...

1) It may be purely coincidental and the poster's radio simply happened to experience trouble while the dispatcher was speaking. Perhaps this happened a couple of times and conclusions were jumped to.

2) Simulcast P25 and especially LSM systems have additional tricks up their sleeve - for example by varying the subset of system towers used for a transmission, or by altering the low-frequency dotting code that is inserted into the LSM waveform, different messages receive different transmission treatment. Bottom line: you can be sure the system is optimized for the parties involved, NOT for random third parties.

73

Max
 
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DaveNF2G

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Thanks, KA1RBI, for a useful answer.

I did some reading and the idea of incorrect voice modulation levels producing errors in the datastream appears plausible. The two main factors influencing the bit error rate are noise and Rayleigh fading. Excess audio can become noise particularly if the filters start "ringing". Granted that this "noise" would become part of the datastream as if it was legit, a datastream with a lot of crud encoded could still generate apparent data errors if the receiving software has trouble with it.

There are probably other mechanisms that can translate a poorly adjusted transmitting system into an increased BER at the receiver.
 
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