N2SWD
Member
Does anyone know why MOPD transmitter is so weak.Did they turn down there power again. They barely register one signal bar in Hopatcong.
Mt Olive Police
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Any idea where they moved the repeater to?
I didn't see any modifications to their license recently -- I watch since we share a repeater output frequency -- but I was wondering as I've started to hear them more frequently in places I had not heard them before. Normally, I can't hear them at all which would seem to say we are both far enough away to not interfere with each other but I'm a little more concerned as our use of the channel is going to start increasing soon.
(Pushed back to next week at the earliest, Tony.)
I didn't see any modifications to their license recently -- I watch since we share a repeater output frequency -- but I was wondering as I've started to hear them more frequently in places I had not heard them before. Normally, I can't hear them at all which would seem to say we are both far enough away to not interfere with each other but I'm a little more concerned as our use of the channel is going to start increasing soon.
(Pushed back to next week at the earliest, Tony.)
No problem. I can make some educated guesses with a map and some of the other licenses in the area. ;-) Thanks.
It'll show up on the license eventually if it becomes permanent. (Should be on the license even if temporary but that's a different issue.)
It'll show up on the license eventually if it becomes permanent. (Should be on the license even if temporary but that's a different issue.)
N2SWD
Member
Mopd
Bob,
If they moved the transmitter to Flanders, is it able to cover the Budd Lake side.
Bob,
If they moved the transmitter to Flanders, is it able to cover the Budd Lake side.
mopd090
Member
There are two repeaters in town, but they are not syncronized. It appears that one is currently being used as the primary (Flanders, Tinc Road area) and one as a backup (Budd Lake, near the car dealerships). Since it will cost way to must to syncronize both repeaters, the input DPL is going to be changed on the backup repeater. The officers will have to switch channels, thus steering their tX transmissions to the repeater which they are closest to (main or Budd Lake area)
SCANdal
Silent Key
Not retarded at all...
K2NorthernNewJersey,
The technique being employed to "fix" this problem is actually quite common and is used by three systems that I am quite familiar with - two public safety and one GMRS - and for different reasons why.
Ramapo Police, in Rockland County, New York use 151.475, 151.4 as their dispatch repeater output. The input is 159.060. Ramapo uses two repeaters, an east and a west, to cover their town. The input tone (PL) is different at each tower.
Orange County (NY) EMS Control uses 153.860, 77.0 is their operations repeater output. 158.865 is used as the input. There are five seperate repeaters that cover the county, each with a unique input tone.
The Long Island GMRS Community Radio Alliance uses six repeaters, all with the same output frequency/tone and same input frequency, but unique PL tones.
In the Ramapo case, the terrain the needed to be covered is varied, from the iron-ore rich mountains around Sloatsburg, to the "urban" areas near Spring Valley. While, arguably, one site could effectively cover such a large area, 151.475 is also New Jersey DEPE's F8. I suspect they could not go "full power" on one repeater(s), in order to prevent possible interference with Jersey units operating over the border.
The Orange case is similar to Ramapo, in terms of terrain, but much more aggravated. From the banks of the Hudson River to the banks of the Delaware River, you've got a number of elevations between that prevent portable radio signals (as mainly used by volunteer EMTs) from carrying well [into a repeater that must cover the 835 square miles that make up the County].
The Long Islanders uses this arrangement to cover all of Suffolk, Nassau, and Queens counties. The arrangement allows for:
(a) licensed members to hold multiple conversations (say, some guys can use the far east repeater for one conversation, while others can use the Bronx area machine for another - and they wouldn't hear each other, or
(b) the common output allows for seamless operation as members commute from east to west (or vice-versa). Two (or more) members, each one using adjoining repeaters, can cover entire counties as they travel ahead or behind each other.
Mount Olive seems to me to have a combination of problems similair to the agencies I descibed above (anybody do a license check to see who else close by might be using their output frequency?). Yes, this method ends up tying up multiple channels on a radio to hear the same thing. But, in these days of 128 (or more) channels available on two-ways....
Another gripe could be that this method places the burden on the end user (i.e. the cop, the EMT, or the commuter) to select the correct channel in their radio to pick the appropriate repeater to transmit off of; but I look at it as placing control in the hands of the end user. I know right away if I am reaching a repeater, as opposed to using a system of voters / satellite recievers to "fix" the problem that leaves me, as an end user, only hopeing that something out there is picking up my outbound signal.
If you're a ham, as I suspect from your handle possibly being a call sign, and you're active - I am sure that you must have run into systems like this at one time or another.
Best wishes,
SCANdal
P.S.
As a scannist, thanks to this new system being implemented, you now have a distinct advantage on those days when you want to scan, but don't really want to scan. You can now program in the input frequency/PL combo used closest to your home and only listen to the units right around you. I do this all the time with a certain busy law enforcement agency near me; I just want to know when their units are operating in my neighborhood. Granted I don't hear the more distant units or the dispatcher, but like I said...I don't really feel like scanning some days. Of course, keep the regular (output) frequency programmed in the very next channel (and locked out) - so that when you do hear radio traffic that might interest you ("I've got shots fired, North...at ...") you press manual, manual again and, presto, you'll hear both ends of the conversation. A tip from old uncle SCANdal.
K2NNJ said:
K2NorthernNewJersey,
The technique being employed to "fix" this problem is actually quite common and is used by three systems that I am quite familiar with - two public safety and one GMRS - and for different reasons why.
Ramapo Police, in Rockland County, New York use 151.475, 151.4 as their dispatch repeater output. The input is 159.060. Ramapo uses two repeaters, an east and a west, to cover their town. The input tone (PL) is different at each tower.
Orange County (NY) EMS Control uses 153.860, 77.0 is their operations repeater output. 158.865 is used as the input. There are five seperate repeaters that cover the county, each with a unique input tone.
The Long Island GMRS Community Radio Alliance uses six repeaters, all with the same output frequency/tone and same input frequency, but unique PL tones.
In the Ramapo case, the terrain the needed to be covered is varied, from the iron-ore rich mountains around Sloatsburg, to the "urban" areas near Spring Valley. While, arguably, one site could effectively cover such a large area, 151.475 is also New Jersey DEPE's F8. I suspect they could not go "full power" on one repeater(s), in order to prevent possible interference with Jersey units operating over the border.
The Orange case is similar to Ramapo, in terms of terrain, but much more aggravated. From the banks of the Hudson River to the banks of the Delaware River, you've got a number of elevations between that prevent portable radio signals (as mainly used by volunteer EMTs) from carrying well [into a repeater that must cover the 835 square miles that make up the County].
The Long Islanders uses this arrangement to cover all of Suffolk, Nassau, and Queens counties. The arrangement allows for:
(a) licensed members to hold multiple conversations (say, some guys can use the far east repeater for one conversation, while others can use the Bronx area machine for another - and they wouldn't hear each other, or
(b) the common output allows for seamless operation as members commute from east to west (or vice-versa). Two (or more) members, each one using adjoining repeaters, can cover entire counties as they travel ahead or behind each other.
Mount Olive seems to me to have a combination of problems similair to the agencies I descibed above (anybody do a license check to see who else close by might be using their output frequency?). Yes, this method ends up tying up multiple channels on a radio to hear the same thing. But, in these days of 128 (or more) channels available on two-ways....
Another gripe could be that this method places the burden on the end user (i.e. the cop, the EMT, or the commuter) to select the correct channel in their radio to pick the appropriate repeater to transmit off of; but I look at it as placing control in the hands of the end user. I know right away if I am reaching a repeater, as opposed to using a system of voters / satellite recievers to "fix" the problem that leaves me, as an end user, only hopeing that something out there is picking up my outbound signal.
If you're a ham, as I suspect from your handle possibly being a call sign, and you're active - I am sure that you must have run into systems like this at one time or another.
Best wishes,
SCANdal
P.S.
As a scannist, thanks to this new system being implemented, you now have a distinct advantage on those days when you want to scan, but don't really want to scan. You can now program in the input frequency/PL combo used closest to your home and only listen to the units right around you. I do this all the time with a certain busy law enforcement agency near me; I just want to know when their units are operating in my neighborhood. Granted I don't hear the more distant units or the dispatcher, but like I said...I don't really feel like scanning some days. Of course, keep the regular (output) frequency programmed in the very next channel (and locked out) - so that when you do hear radio traffic that might interest you ("I've got shots fired, North...at ...") you press manual, manual again and, presto, you'll hear both ends of the conversation. A tip from old uncle SCANdal.
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I have never run into a system like this. My club repeater is VHF on Mooney Mtn. in Roxbury. I have had a conversation that started in Flanders and I could talk into the repeater all the way up to the Lincoln Tunnel. I was told the output power was 85w. I was using only 15w on the input until I got to the Meadowlands, then I had to go up to 55w. Only beacuse that was the next step from 15w.
My point is that we only have one repeater w/ a preamp. No receive sites or anything. Mt. Olive is only 30 sq mi and needs two repeaters. And apparently it's a huge project. Maybe they should have went w/ the UHF business band.
My point is that we only have one repeater w/ a preamp. No receive sites or anything. Mt. Olive is only 30 sq mi and needs two repeaters. And apparently it's a huge project. Maybe they should have went w/ the UHF business band.
OLD UNCLE SCANDAL is BACK!SCANdal said:
Hope thars GAS in yer truck this time :wink:
Doesn't the Twp. Fire/EMS operate on one Frequency that covers the entire twp?
I guess I don't understand what the problem is. If they did it with the fire repeater you would think the police repeater would be easy.
mopd090
Member
The benefit to the Mt Olive FD/EMS repeater is that the output is allowed as a max to 50 watts. The PD repeater license was only granted for 25 watts. I believe currently its only operating at 12 watts.
The big problem was that once the PD repeater went online operating at 25 watts (which was allowed per the FCC license) it interfered with a jurisdiction in or near Upper Darby PA. It was unbelievable; but in the early stages, the PL/DPL was taken off for a night shift and transmissions from PA were being recieved. This was confirmed by monitoring and confirming unit id's from that agency. Hence the power has been turned down to approximatly 12 watts and the PL changed to a DPL.
Anyone familiar with the terrain of Mt Olive should know that UHF will not work with our current business band UHF license. The current UHF licensed to MOPD is only a 10 watt output. The only possible way UHF could be properly utilized is with multiple repeaters throughout town. A neighboring town (Roxbury) migrated to UHF with few repeaters and parts of their town (mountain terrain) are not covered. "Dead spot" are not good in the LE field.
The big problem was that once the PD repeater went online operating at 25 watts (which was allowed per the FCC license) it interfered with a jurisdiction in or near Upper Darby PA. It was unbelievable; but in the early stages, the PL/DPL was taken off for a night shift and transmissions from PA were being recieved. This was confirmed by monitoring and confirming unit id's from that agency. Hence the power has been turned down to approximatly 12 watts and the PL changed to a DPL.
Anyone familiar with the terrain of Mt Olive should know that UHF will not work with our current business band UHF license. The current UHF licensed to MOPD is only a 10 watt output. The only possible way UHF could be properly utilized is with multiple repeaters throughout town. A neighboring town (Roxbury) migrated to UHF with few repeaters and parts of their town (mountain terrain) are not covered. "Dead spot" are not good in the LE field.
SCANdal
Silent Key
Special Attention: K2NNJ
090,
Your post confirms what I suspected in my post above. Thank you. M.O.’s situation sounds similar to Ramapo’s situation - power output limitations, co-channel users, terrain coverage problems, etc., etc.
There is a reason why things are done the way they are. Lest we forget, the convenience of the scanning community is hardly ever considered when two-way systems are constructed.
Best wishes,
SCANdal
090,
Your post confirms what I suspected in my post above. Thank you. M.O.’s situation sounds similar to Ramapo’s situation - power output limitations, co-channel users, terrain coverage problems, etc., etc.
There is a reason why things are done the way they are. Lest we forget, the convenience of the scanning community is hardly ever considered when two-way systems are constructed.
Best wishes,
SCANdal
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