NAC listing in DB standardization

[Jay911]

Hi,
I did a P25 Conventional search tonight and received a list of frequencies with some quirks in it.

First of all, and not the topic of this message, there are a ton of entries in the first part of the report which come up with 0.0000 as the frequency. Looking at the database segments in question, it looks like they have been put into the DB with an input freq only and "0" as the main frequency.

Now on to the topic at hand: Some NAC codes are listed as "NAC ###" while others are listed as "### NAC". I'm not sure if the various software can handle this - never had a program alert me to it - but I would think that RR would want to standardize with one format.

Should they be entered/submitted as "### NAC" or "NAC ###"?

 

[GTR8000]

Right from the RR DB Admin Handbook:

6.2.5.5. FREQUENCY TONES

Subaudible tones and codes are commonly used to help reduce interference from other users of the same frequency. The “tone” field in the RR database provides a location to capture this information. Only output frequency tones should be entered in the RR database; do not enter input frequency tones. If a particular frequency allocation is used with multiple tones by a single entity, the frequency should be entered separately in the database for each tone used.

The RR database supports the following types of “tones:”

• Carrier squelch, i.e., no tone, entered as “CSQ”
• Continuous Tone Coded Squelch System (CTCSS), a subaudible tone frequency in Hz, entered in the format “156.7 PL”
• Digital Coded Squelch (DCS), a decimal code, entered in the format “032 DPL”
• Project 25 Network Access Code (NAC), a hexadecimal code, entered in the format “293 NAC”
• NXDN Radio Access Number (RAN), a decimal number, entered in the format “55 RAN”

The overwhelming majority of them are entered correctly as far as I could tell from a quick look through all 21 pages of the P25 Conventional report. Only a handful are in the "NAC ###" format.

I guess now that you know the correct format, you can go ahead and look through that list and submit corrections. :wink:

 

[GTR8000]

Out of 4,174 entries, only 30 of them are in the wrong format.

866.050000	NAC 293	Secondary Channel	Cypress	Cypress	AB
866.550000	NAC 293	Main Dispatch Channel	Cypress	Cypress	AB
867.550000	NAC 293	Dispatch, tac - all operations	Cypress	Cypress	AB
167.825000	NAC 293	Security, Flight Operations (Flagstaff)	U.S. Government	Arizona	AZ
172.212500	NAC 167	Tucson Area Operations	U.S. Government	Arizona	AZ
411.350000	NAC 293	Hines VA Hospital (Maywood) 	Federal Agencies	Cook	IL
451.225000	NAC 900	Data (Silent Carrier)	Antrim	Antrim	MI
451.950000	NAC 100	Michigan Consolidated Gas Company DBA Michcon	Businesses, Recreation & Attractions	Cheboygan	MI
451.050000	NAC 900	Michigan Consolidated Gas Company - Silent Carrier	Crawford	Crawford	MI
451.225000	NAC 300	Michigan Consolidated Gas Company - Silent Carrier	Crawford	Crawford	MI
452.125000	NAC 900	Data - Silent Carrier	Businesses, Attractions, Recreation, Media & Railroads	Grand Traverse	MI
451.950000	NAC 900	Michigan Consolidated Gas Company	Kalkaska	Kalkaska	MI
172.900000	NAC 001	TSA Operations	Gerald R. Ford International Airport (GRR)	Kent	MI
452.275000	NAC 100	Michigan Consolidated Gas Company - Silent Carrier	Businesses, Recreation & Attractions	Kent	MI
165.237500	NAC 301	National Main (Voice/Encryption in SSM)	Federal Law Enforcement	Michigan	MI
452.300000	NAC 790	Michigan Consolidated Gas Company - Silent Carrier	Wexford	Wexford	MI
775.931250	NAC 293	City Wide 5	Jackson	Jackson	MO
775.943750	NAC 293	City Wide 6	Jackson	Jackson	MO
166.350000	NAC4C5	Park	Federal	North Carolina	NC
169.087500	NAC4C5	Parkwide APCO-25	Federal	North Carolina	NC
169.550000	NAC4C5	Parkwide APCO-25	Federal	North Carolina	NC
169.725000	NAC4C5	Park	Federal	North Carolina	NC
170.387500	NAC4C5	Linked Repeater	Federal	North Carolina	NC
170.512500	NAC4C5	Parkwide APCO-25	Federal	North Carolina	NC
171.750000	NAC293	Park	Federal	North Carolina	NC
172.525000	NAC4C5	Park	Federal	North Carolina	NC
172.587500	NAC4C5	Linked Repeater	Federal	North Carolina	NC
141.575000	NAC 4F9	Cival Air Patrol	Cameron	Cameron	TX
148.125000	NAC 61F	Cival Air Patrol	Cameron	Cameron	TX
163.100000	NAC 252	Operations	Jefferson	Jefferson	WV

 

[Jay911]

Out of 4,174 entries, only 30 of them are in the wrong format.

There's a number of entries with PL/DCS tones and CSQ as well (in the P25 conventional report), but I was more curious about the NAC naming convention.

 

[mass-man]

Where did you find the frequency 000.000 listings. Found a few last week, as it really messed up a new user in getting his programming right. The correct freq. was listed in the input column. The DB admin for that area fixed them in short order. You might let the proper folks know.

 

[GTR8000]

It should be abundantly obvious, they all show up on the first page of the Project 25 Conventional report.

 

[scannerfreak]

The admins are working hard to clean up the DB so it all conforms to the current handbook standards. Most, if not all, of the stuff you see listed wrong has been there before rules were assigned to the admin interface. The way it is now the DB will not accept any info that's not in its proper format.

Please feel free to submit anything that's not correct and it will be taken care of

 

[Jay911]

Where did you find the frequency 000.000 listings. Found a few last week, as it really messed up a new user in getting his programming right. The correct freq. was listed in the input column. The DB admin for that area fixed them in short order. You might let the proper folks know.

If memory serves, 99% of them are in Kentucky emergency management, with one in Arizona.

 

[scannerfreak]

If memory serves, 99% of them are in Kentucky emergency management, with one in Arizona.

This KY EMA?

Kentucky Emergency Management /Kentucky National Guard Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

I do not see any there at all..

 

[Jay911]

Yes, that one - most likely the bright day-glo green ones that unitcharlie has updated all morning (with my thanks )

 

[GTR8000]

Yep he got them all in KY, the only one left is in AZ.

 

[scannerfreak]

Cool, thanks

I saw the "bright day-glo green ones" but when I looked I didn't see any recent submissions so I wasn't sure if that's what you were referring to.

 

[unitcharlie]

Yes, that one - most likely the bright day-glo green ones that unitcharlie has updated all morning (with my thanks )

Sorry Jay.... Those were placed as holders while a couple of us figured out the system and then we couldn't figure out how to show the towers with no freq.... then figuring out the new madison P-25 TRS... just getting old and forgetting more than I remember! thanx for the nudge!

 

[loumaag]

Interestingly enough, the one in AZ probably doesn't belong there anyway. It would appear to be a duplicate of the entry just below it in the Kaibab National Forest sub-cat. Yes, I know it says it is two different places, doesn't matter, it is a duplicate.

 

[GTR8000]

Playing devil's advocate, it is possible they have two repeaters on separate outputs with identical inputs. I've seen that especially in forestry service where they want to cover a very wide area and the user not having to worry about which channel he's on, he's going to hit one repeater or the other or maybe even both. I'm not familiar with the area in question at all, but if those two sites are 30 or more miles apart, it's definitely a possibility that two repeaters do exist. Or not? I'm sure someone will figure it out lol.

 

[kb7yvx]

Interestingly enough, the one in AZ probably doesn't belong there anyway. It would appear to be a duplicate of the entry just below it in the Kaibab National Forest sub-cat. Yes, I know it says it is two different places, doesn't matter, it is a duplicate.

actually that one should be kept as i had submitted it to the database
its unique as how it works and both are heard

the 164.675 is the input transmitting on a mountaintop 50 miles south of where the repeater is
so when its used you can hear both the input and output on each repeater

 

[Jay911]

actually that one should be kept as i had submitted it to the database
its unique as how it works and both are heard

the 164.675 is the input transmitting on a mountaintop 50 miles south of where the repeater is
so when its used you can hear both the input and output on each repeater

If it should be kept, it should have a value other than 0.0000 in the frequency column. As it is right now, it would download to a scanner as an invalid frequency.

 

[GTR8000]

the 164.675 is the input transmitting on a mountaintop 50 miles south of where the repeater is so when its used you can hear both the input and output on each repeater

Then in that case, one entry should show 164.675 as the output with no input, listed as B or BM instead of RM. However I'm not sure that usage would jive with RR policy, since that input is repeated. It's not a separate frequency per se, regardless of the distance between sites. That's a question left for the PTB to decide.

As Jay said, if there is no output frequency listed, then it's an invalid entry.

 

[unitcharlie]

Playing devil's advocate, it is possible they have two repeaters on separate outputs with identical inputs. I've seen that especially in forestry service where they want to cover a very wide area and the user not having to worry about which channel he's on, he's going to hit one repeater or the other or maybe even both. I'm not familiar with the area in question at all, but if those two sites are 30 or more miles apart, it's definitely a possibility that two repeaters do exist. Or not? I'm sure someone will figure it out lol.

The Kentucky State Police and Kentucky Forestry Department have radio systems that operate in that manner....

 

[ericcarlson]

You found some dirty data from before we were enforcing the rules as quoted above. If you could submit corrections to the db when you find these then we can get them cleaned up.

I don't quite understand the explanation on 164.675. The "0.0" entry needs to be deleted or at least changed. If this is just a remote station that happens to be transmitting from a high elevation, then this should be deleted (it's covered under the repeater listing below it). If it's a non-repeated base station then it would be listed as an output frequency.