Yep, Mt Mitchell is 6684, but the site isn't on Mitchell, it's on Clingman's Peak on the south end of the Black Mtn ridge (which is also the site of the Mt Mitchell ham repeater), and that's 6609 according to one source, 6634 according to another, and on and on.
NCSHP Low Band
- Thread starter blueline72
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blinddog50 said:
What site/freqs are you using to hear them in Charlotte?
868.5125 is the Concord site. I can RX pretty well here in Cornelius. I haven't logged any activity yet. I'll monitor a little closer now that there are reports of comms from that site.
Jon
N4ZVY
Jon
N4ZVY
CFP387
Member
wx4cbh said:
I really don't know how else to explain why some days I can't hear the signal off a 100+ foot tower 1 mile away from me.
CFP387
Member
I monitor the base-to-car frequency 42.94 on a BC700A mobile/base scanner with the antenna fully extended. I talked to one of the communicators at the Salisbury com center and after discussing this with an engineer there, they advised it was possible that there is a skip in the signal that only affects scanning receivers near the broadcast tower.
HP cars have a 60-inch antenna which allows them better reception of the signal; I have an 18-inch antenna on the scanner.
HP cars have a 60-inch antenna which allows them better reception of the signal; I have an 18-inch antenna on the scanner.
I have used a VHF-Hi 1/4 wave on the mobile (20 inch) and I've heard Salibury all the way in Lincoln County, so I can attest the signal gets out this far :lol: I'm running a Hi-band 5/8 wave now, so it does a better job for lo-band.
I have a bank setup with all of the Lo-band freqs, and when I get bored I just let it run.
I have a bank setup with all of the Lo-band freqs, and when I get bored I just let it run.
I know the engineers at Salisbury and I've been in this business for 40+ years but I can't even imagine an explanation like that, ha ha! I have a base loaded 40-50 mHz antenna (similar to the ones on the SHP cars) and I don't have any problems hearing any of the stations within reason, but back when I had a Motorola portable radio on low band, it couldn't hear worth a durn unless my hand was touching it or I had it in the mobile charger.
The antenna on your radio is only half the antenna. A counterpoise, or ground plane is required to form the other half of the antenna. If you're using an antenna that's electrically or physically shorter than the requisite 1/4 wave with a decent counterpoise, you're not going to hear much of anything on low band - it's the nature of the beast. The longer the wavelength, the harder it is to achieve counterpoise through coupling. Low band radio is not conducive to portable use since it has a relatively long wavelength and it's just hard to get a good counterpoise or coupling with ground on a portable anything, and that's why everybody wants to get off low band for anything but mobile or base communications.
The antenna on your radio is only half the antenna. A counterpoise, or ground plane is required to form the other half of the antenna. If you're using an antenna that's electrically or physically shorter than the requisite 1/4 wave with a decent counterpoise, you're not going to hear much of anything on low band - it's the nature of the beast. The longer the wavelength, the harder it is to achieve counterpoise through coupling. Low band radio is not conducive to portable use since it has a relatively long wavelength and it's just hard to get a good counterpoise or coupling with ground on a portable anything, and that's why everybody wants to get off low band for anything but mobile or base communications.
CFP387
Member
wx4cbh said:
And that's exactly the case. Some days I have to squelch to hear them but on most days I have no problem at all picking up the signal.
CFP387
Member
wx4cbh said:
Would the standard telescoping antenna that came with the BC700A/350A be suffice? I've since switched to different antennae but it sounds like I should go back with the original package.
I can only speculate what a given setup might do for you. The closer you can get to a 1/4 wave length and/or a matched length that will give you a gain factor at a given frequency, the better the reception is going to be, but that won't likely be a correct wavelength for the other bands, so they may suffer. 1/4 wave length antennas at 150 mHz work fairly well at 450 mHz because there's an almost even ratio (3 to 1), and without going into antenna theory, let's just say that for general purposes, low number ratios like 2:1, 3:1, etc will work rather well for scanning purposes. Outside of dual band 2m/70cm antennas, I don't deal much with multiband antennas, so others here can give you more info than I.
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jeffmulter
Member
CFP387 --
If I understand correctly, you're in the China Grove area, and trying to hear NCHP Salisbury ?
Keep in mind their dispatch has 3 ? sites they can work off for the E-3 and E-6 cars. I believe the southern site is on the WUNG TV tower ? in Concord, the comm center in Salisbury, and the Saurtown site.
I don't know how much they use the Salisbury site on channels 15/16, but the southern site is used extensively for calls in Cabarrus and Rowan County. That's probably the site Grog is hearing in Lincoln County, and it puts an excellent signal down my way (Lancaster Co, SC).
I'm mentioning this because, just because you're near the Troop E headquarters, that doesn't mean you're hearing traffic off the local tower.
I hope that helps.
Jeff Multer
If I understand correctly, you're in the China Grove area, and trying to hear NCHP Salisbury ?
Keep in mind their dispatch has 3 ? sites they can work off for the E-3 and E-6 cars. I believe the southern site is on the WUNG TV tower ? in Concord, the comm center in Salisbury, and the Saurtown site.
I don't know how much they use the Salisbury site on channels 15/16, but the southern site is used extensively for calls in Cabarrus and Rowan County. That's probably the site Grog is hearing in Lincoln County, and it puts an excellent signal down my way (Lancaster Co, SC).
I'm mentioning this because, just because you're near the Troop E headquarters, that doesn't mean you're hearing traffic off the local tower.
I hope that helps.
Jeff Multer
CFP387
Member
jeffmulter said:
That's right, and it seems some weeks are better than others. As a side note, I've visited here regularly for over two years and the minute I join, you guys already know the town I live in? Good work!! :lol:
jeffmulter said:
I am familiar with the Saurtown mountain site, but I didn't know they could use WUNG's tower as well. I was under the impression that Saurtown was used for the E4 and E5 cars in Surry and Stokes counties.
jeffmulter said:
It's got to be. When he mentioned that, it really threw me. I couldn't figure out why he hears the signal so well when I can look out the back window of the house at night and see the red lights on the tower!
jeffmulter
Member
CFP387 -
>> I am familiar with the Saurtown mountain site, but I didn't know they could use WUNG's tower as well. I was under the impression that Saurtown was used for the E4 and E5 cars in Surry and Stokes counties.
Do I get half-credit for spelling the name "Saurtown" correctly ???
I think I'm wrong ... you're right ... which would mean I can only account for two transmitter locations.
>> As a side note, I've visited here regularly for over two years and the minute I join, you guys already know the town I live in? Good work!!
Actually, when reading the original posts in this thread, I thought you lived near Mount Mitchell. Earlier today, though, I saw a post of your's elsewhere in which you mentioned living near the Rowan / Cabarrus Co line.
Jeff
>> I am familiar with the Saurtown mountain site, but I didn't know they could use WUNG's tower as well. I was under the impression that Saurtown was used for the E4 and E5 cars in Surry and Stokes counties.
Do I get half-credit for spelling the name "Saurtown" correctly ???
I think I'm wrong ... you're right ... which would mean I can only account for two transmitter locations.
>> As a side note, I've visited here regularly for over two years and the minute I join, you guys already know the town I live in? Good work!!
Actually, when reading the original posts in this thread, I thought you lived near Mount Mitchell. Earlier today, though, I saw a post of your's elsewhere in which you mentioned living near the Rowan / Cabarrus Co line.
Jeff
Sauratown Mtn is named for the old Native American village (Upper Sauratown) near the Virginia border inhabited by the Saura Indian tribe. Same root name (Lower Sauratown) that Cheraw, SC gets it's name from. And you guys left out the Faith Mtn and Lexington transmitter sites altogether. I suggest that you're hearing three different sites on the same frequency. I can hear all the Salisbury sites from Winston-Salem on a 70 inch piece of wire, so something is wrong on your end.
jeffmulter
Member
> Do I get half-credit for spelling the name "Saurtown" correctly ???
>> Sauratown
So much for even getting half-credit.
Jeff
>> Sauratown
So much for even getting half-credit.
Jeff
CFP387
Member
If Salisbury transmits on all these tower sites (including Faith Mountain - silly me for forgetting that one, it's in Rowan County too! :roll: ), do they broadcast the same wattage at each tower?
I'm now getting the impression that Salisbury doesn't broadcast directly from the tower behind the comm center, instead they transmit the signal via microwave to the respective tower sites all over the Troop E area.
Before the headquarters was built here off Highway 29, a mere one mile from my humble abode, the original tower site was on Dan Street in Salisbury (for those of you who are familiar with the Salisbury/Rowan area) off Jake Alexander Blvd, then Woodleaf Road. I'm curious as to whether they broadcasted directly from that tower or if the microwave link was set up then too.
Here is a picture of the Dan Street tower before it was taken down in 2001:
This tower was actually built in 1937. Here is the whole story and it's a really good read.
I'm now getting the impression that Salisbury doesn't broadcast directly from the tower behind the comm center, instead they transmit the signal via microwave to the respective tower sites all over the Troop E area.
Before the headquarters was built here off Highway 29, a mere one mile from my humble abode, the original tower site was on Dan Street in Salisbury (for those of you who are familiar with the Salisbury/Rowan area) off Jake Alexander Blvd, then Woodleaf Road. I'm curious as to whether they broadcasted directly from that tower or if the microwave link was set up then too.
Here is a picture of the Dan Street tower before it was taken down in 2001:
This tower was actually built in 1937. Here is the whole story and it's a really good read.
Small world indeed! Terry Buff and I both used to work for Triangle Comm and now he works for Wireless Communications. There was a tower in Kernersville for the SHP comm center that was located there, but it and the center have been long gone since the Greensboro comm center was completed in the 50s. In regard to the tower at the Salisbury comm center, it's the source of the call sign KIH781 and it's still very much in use.
The SHP transmitter sites range in power from about 350 down to 100 watters, depending on the site. The older Motorolas (Micors) and GEs (MASTR Pros) still in service are almost all 330-350 watters and are tube finals. Up until the 80s, Williamston, Elizabethtown, Raleigh, and Greensboro comm centers all had the option of using the "high power" transmitter: 3KW on 39 mHz. The high power was used because they didn't have remote receiver sites at all when the 3KWs were put into service, and a lot of the dispatching was done "in the blind", just as it had been done on the AM system. The troopers would stop somewhere and call the station by phone when the car radio couldn't make the trip. When the FM system was first put into service, there was one frequency state-wide, and only a few cars had transmitters, so it was a while before there was what you'd call a two-way radio system for the SHP. The 42 mHz freqs didn't come along until the late mid 50s.
The 3KWs have all been removed, but they were built by Gates for Motorola, and had two humongous "toobs" cooled by two of the most beautiful machined cast aluminum centrifugal fans you can imagine. Those mamas used a pre-Twin V Motorola mobile unit in cabinet 1 as an exciter to feed a 250 watt transmitter in cabinet 2, and that was the exciter for the 3KW mutha in the 3rd cabinet. The power supply for the big mamajama was in the 4th cabinet. They could elect to either use the 1/4 kilowatter as the transmitter, or flip the switch and have it switch the antenna relays to the big dog and let the 250 drive the 3KW instead of feeding the signal directly to the antenna. The receiver was in the mobile unit.
In the early 60s, the state got a second channel to use as a car-to-base frequency, and that required 2 channel radios, sorta. Channel 1 was 42.62 and car-to-station (ch 2) was 42.78. The radio was configured with ch 1 as 42.62 RX/42.78 TX, and ch 2 was 42.62 simplex, so the receiver was really a 1 channel unit. Soon after, they got two more freqs, and the "new" GE MASTR Pros had 4 channel transmitters and 2 channel receivers. When the SHP divvyed up the state into radio zones was about the time I first got involved with SHP radio. Many of the cars still had the old Motorola Twin V low banders that had been upgrade to two channels a few years earlier, and those cars couldn't talk to the cars in the adjoining radio zone, so it didn't take long for the new radios to get distributed.
There's just not enough space and time here to tell the whole story, but there ya have a part of it.
The SHP transmitter sites range in power from about 350 down to 100 watters, depending on the site. The older Motorolas (Micors) and GEs (MASTR Pros) still in service are almost all 330-350 watters and are tube finals. Up until the 80s, Williamston, Elizabethtown, Raleigh, and Greensboro comm centers all had the option of using the "high power" transmitter: 3KW on 39 mHz. The high power was used because they didn't have remote receiver sites at all when the 3KWs were put into service, and a lot of the dispatching was done "in the blind", just as it had been done on the AM system. The troopers would stop somewhere and call the station by phone when the car radio couldn't make the trip. When the FM system was first put into service, there was one frequency state-wide, and only a few cars had transmitters, so it was a while before there was what you'd call a two-way radio system for the SHP. The 42 mHz freqs didn't come along until the late mid 50s.
The 3KWs have all been removed, but they were built by Gates for Motorola, and had two humongous "toobs" cooled by two of the most beautiful machined cast aluminum centrifugal fans you can imagine. Those mamas used a pre-Twin V Motorola mobile unit in cabinet 1 as an exciter to feed a 250 watt transmitter in cabinet 2, and that was the exciter for the 3KW mutha in the 3rd cabinet. The power supply for the big mamajama was in the 4th cabinet. They could elect to either use the 1/4 kilowatter as the transmitter, or flip the switch and have it switch the antenna relays to the big dog and let the 250 drive the 3KW instead of feeding the signal directly to the antenna. The receiver was in the mobile unit.
In the early 60s, the state got a second channel to use as a car-to-base frequency, and that required 2 channel radios, sorta. Channel 1 was 42.62 and car-to-station (ch 2) was 42.78. The radio was configured with ch 1 as 42.62 RX/42.78 TX, and ch 2 was 42.62 simplex, so the receiver was really a 1 channel unit. Soon after, they got two more freqs, and the "new" GE MASTR Pros had 4 channel transmitters and 2 channel receivers. When the SHP divvyed up the state into radio zones was about the time I first got involved with SHP radio. Many of the cars still had the old Motorola Twin V low banders that had been upgrade to two channels a few years earlier, and those cars couldn't talk to the cars in the adjoining radio zone, so it didn't take long for the new radios to get distributed.
There's just not enough space and time here to tell the whole story, but there ya have a part of it.
jeffmulter
Member
>> I'm curious as to whether they broadcasted directly from that tower or if the microwave link was set up then too.
I'm guessing any remotes were linked by dedicated phone lines through atleast 1980 ???
>> There's just not enough space and time here to tell the whole story, but there ya have a part of it.
WX - I think we'd all appreciate it if, on a SLOW day, you might expand your post about the development of the NCHP radio system. Although there are some decent materials - online and printed - about the Highway Patrol, I've never run across a good history of their radio history. *
Given time, the history of the radio system will disappear with the memories of those involved, as have many aspects of post WWII two-way radio.
* For those interested in NCHP history, there is an official text of the history of the NCHP in the reference section of the uptown Charlotte Library branch.
* Another book I recommend is "Trooper Down, " by Marie Bartlett, 1989 Algonquin Press. Expensive to buy, but probably available in many local libraries.
Jeff Multer
I'm guessing any remotes were linked by dedicated phone lines through atleast 1980 ???
>> There's just not enough space and time here to tell the whole story, but there ya have a part of it.
WX - I think we'd all appreciate it if, on a SLOW day, you might expand your post about the development of the NCHP radio system. Although there are some decent materials - online and printed - about the Highway Patrol, I've never run across a good history of their radio history. *
Given time, the history of the radio system will disappear with the memories of those involved, as have many aspects of post WWII two-way radio.
* For those interested in NCHP history, there is an official text of the history of the NCHP in the reference section of the uptown Charlotte Library branch.
* Another book I recommend is "Trooper Down, " by Marie Bartlett, 1989 Algonquin Press. Expensive to buy, but probably available in many local libraries.
Jeff Multer
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