Need VHF wildland frequencies
- Thread starter Anderegg
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Lets see if I can explain this a little further.
We are basically talking about 3 different types of radio channels here. "Repeater channels" ("R") allow messages from dispatchers and fire units to be heard over large distances. "Base Mobile" channels ("BM") usually allow the dispatcher to be heard over large distances - but mobile and portable units can only be heard over short distances. "Mobile Only" channels ("M") can usually just be heard over short distances (unless the "mobile" is an aircraft or up on a mountain top).
Each fire dispatch center typically has its own bunch of pre-assigned channels. In the San Diego area, "dispatch" is typically done on a repeater channel. "Command" is usually done on a repeater channel also. "Command" traffic is typically from an Incident Commander to a dispatcher. "Tactical" is usually done on "mobile only" channels, and this is where the fire engines talk amongst themselves at a fire scene. Aircraft have their own channels.
For CalFire in San Diego County - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 151.19 R PL 131.8 - "Monte Vista"
Command - 151.355 R - (with 151.355 R + 151.34 R as backup)
Tac - 151.25 PL 192.8 M + 151.37 PL 192.8 M - (with 151.46 M and 151.475 M as backup)
Air to ground - 151.22 M
Air to Air - 151.2875 M
Air to Air (AM) - 135.975 + 130.20
For the Cleveland National Forest - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 168.75 R PL 103.5
Command - 168.15 or maybe 164.15 or maybe cellphone
Tac - 168.20 M
Air to Ground - 169.1125 M - (168.4875 M as backup channel)
Air to Air - 166.675 M
Air to Air (AM) - 135.575 + 130.20
For San Diego County fire units - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 800 TRS
Command - 154.175 R
Tac - 155.085 ?BM + maybe 154.43 M
Air to ground - ?
Air to Air ?
For San Diego County fire units in the north end of the county - these channels are available.
Dispatch - 800 TRS
Command - 153.89
Tac - ?
Air to ground - ?
For San Diego City - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 800 Trunked Radio System (TRS)
Command - 158.97 R
Tac - 154.31 M + 154.145 M
Air to ground - ?
Air to Air - ?
Border Area has a command repeater available for all agencies on 153.995 R
Oceanside Fire has 154.025 available as a Tac channel
North County Fire Dept has 154.25 as a Tac channel
San Diego County "Gray" might be available countywide as a spare tac channel - 154.355 BM?
168.625 (BM) is used as an emergency channel for firefighting aircraft - if a plane runs into a problem, they will probably broadcast the details on this channel
168.05 (M) or 168.60 (M) will be used if 168.20 (M) is busy (already in use at a nearby incident)
166.675 (M) or 169.15 (M) or 169.20 (M) can be used as alternate air to ground channels if the primary air to ground channels are already being used at a nearby incident
We are basically talking about 3 different types of radio channels here. "Repeater channels" ("R") allow messages from dispatchers and fire units to be heard over large distances. "Base Mobile" channels ("BM") usually allow the dispatcher to be heard over large distances - but mobile and portable units can only be heard over short distances. "Mobile Only" channels ("M") can usually just be heard over short distances (unless the "mobile" is an aircraft or up on a mountain top).
Each fire dispatch center typically has its own bunch of pre-assigned channels. In the San Diego area, "dispatch" is typically done on a repeater channel. "Command" is usually done on a repeater channel also. "Command" traffic is typically from an Incident Commander to a dispatcher. "Tactical" is usually done on "mobile only" channels, and this is where the fire engines talk amongst themselves at a fire scene. Aircraft have their own channels.
For CalFire in San Diego County - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 151.19 R PL 131.8 - "Monte Vista"
Command - 151.355 R - (with 151.355 R + 151.34 R as backup)
Tac - 151.25 PL 192.8 M + 151.37 PL 192.8 M - (with 151.46 M and 151.475 M as backup)
Air to ground - 151.22 M
Air to Air - 151.2875 M
Air to Air (AM) - 135.975 + 130.20
For the Cleveland National Forest - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 168.75 R PL 103.5
Command - 168.15 or maybe 164.15 or maybe cellphone
Tac - 168.20 M
Air to Ground - 169.1125 M - (168.4875 M as backup channel)
Air to Air - 166.675 M
Air to Air (AM) - 135.575 + 130.20
For San Diego County fire units - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 800 TRS
Command - 154.175 R
Tac - 155.085 ?BM + maybe 154.43 M
Air to ground - ?
Air to Air ?
For San Diego County fire units in the north end of the county - these channels are available.
Dispatch - 800 TRS
Command - 153.89
Tac - ?
Air to ground - ?
For San Diego City - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 800 Trunked Radio System (TRS)
Command - 158.97 R
Tac - 154.31 M + 154.145 M
Air to ground - ?
Air to Air - ?
Border Area has a command repeater available for all agencies on 153.995 R
Oceanside Fire has 154.025 available as a Tac channel
North County Fire Dept has 154.25 as a Tac channel
San Diego County "Gray" might be available countywide as a spare tac channel - 154.355 BM?
168.625 (BM) is used as an emergency channel for firefighting aircraft - if a plane runs into a problem, they will probably broadcast the details on this channel
168.05 (M) or 168.60 (M) will be used if 168.20 (M) is busy (already in use at a nearby incident)
166.675 (M) or 169.15 (M) or 169.20 (M) can be used as alternate air to ground channels if the primary air to ground channels are already being used at a nearby incident
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Adding more info and making corrections - May 25 2013
Lets see if I can explain this a little further.
We are basically talking about 3 different types of radio channels here. "Repeater channels" ("R") allow messages from dispatchers and fire units to be heard over large distances. "Base Mobile" channels ("BM") usually allow the dispatcher to be heard over large distances - but mobile and portable units can only be heard over short distances. "Mobile Only" channels ("M") can usually just be heard over short distances (unless the "mobile" is an aircraft or up on a mountain top).
Each fire dispatch center typically has its own bunch of pre-assigned channels. In the San Diego area, "dispatch" is typically done on a repeater channel. "Command" is usually done on a repeater channel also. "Command" traffic is typically from an Incident Commander to a dispatcher. "Tactical" is usually done on "mobile only" channels, and this is where the fire engines talk amongst themselves at a fire scene. Aircraft have their own channels.
For CalFire in San Diego County - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 151.19 R PL 131.8 - "Monte Vista"
Command - 151.355 R - (with 151.265 R + 151.34 R as backup)
Tac - 151.25 PL 192.8 M + 151.37 PL 192.8 M - (with 151.46 M and 151.475 M as backup)
Air to ground - 151.22 M
Air to Air - 151.2875 M
Air to Air (AM) - 135.975 + 130.20
For the Cleveland National Forest - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 168.75 R PL 103.5
Command - 168.15 or maybe 164.15 or maybe cellphone
Tac - 168.20 M
Air to Ground - 169.1125 M - (168.4875 M as backup channel)
Air to Air - 166.675 M
Air to Air (AM) - 135.575 + 130.20
For San Diego County fire units - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 800 TRS
Command - 154.175 R Red 2 / Command 1 + 154.235 R Green 1
Tac - 154.43 M Gold + 154.385 M Green 2 PL 110.9
Air to ground - ?
Air to Air ?
For San Diego County fire units in the north end of the county - these channels are available.
Dispatch - 800 TRS
Command - 153.89 R PL 100.0 Yellow + 153.815 R Brown
Tac - 154.25 M PL 0.0 North County Fire Tac 1 + 154.43 M PL 0.0 North County Fire Tac 2 + 154.415 M PL 0.0 North County Fire Tac 3
Air to ground - ?
For San Diego City - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 800 Trunked Radio System (TRS)
Command - 158.97 R
Tac - 154.31 M PL 103.5 "SDFD 1" + 154.145 M PL 103.5 "SDFD 2"
Air to ground - ?
Air to Air - ?
Border Area has a command repeater available for all agencies on 153.995 R with 172.25 input - Border Tac is 156.075 M
Oceanside Fire has several VHF channels available - 154.025 R PL 131.8 "V6" + 159.165 PL 127.3 "V7" + 156.015 PL 103.5 "V8" + 154.025 R PL 110.9 "V9" (different PL from V6 but same freqs)
San Diego County "Gray" might be available countywide as a spare tac channel - 154.355 M ?
San Diego County "Green 2" might also be available as a spare tac channel - 154.385 M (mobiles transmit PL 110.9)
Escondido FD has 154.325 BM PL 103.5 for "Dispatch" / "Escondido Green"
154.265 M and 154.295 M might receive extensive use as wildfire tac channels also
168.625 (BM) is used as an emergency channel for firefighting aircraft - if a plane runs into a problem, they will probably broadcast the details on this channel
168.05 (M) or 168.60 (M) will be used if 168.20 (M) is busy (already in use at a nearby incident)
166.675 (M) or 169.15 (M) or 169.20 (M) can be used as alternate air to ground channels if the primary air to ground channels are already being used at a nearby incident
Lets see if I can explain this a little further.
We are basically talking about 3 different types of radio channels here. "Repeater channels" ("R") allow messages from dispatchers and fire units to be heard over large distances. "Base Mobile" channels ("BM") usually allow the dispatcher to be heard over large distances - but mobile and portable units can only be heard over short distances. "Mobile Only" channels ("M") can usually just be heard over short distances (unless the "mobile" is an aircraft or up on a mountain top).
Each fire dispatch center typically has its own bunch of pre-assigned channels. In the San Diego area, "dispatch" is typically done on a repeater channel. "Command" is usually done on a repeater channel also. "Command" traffic is typically from an Incident Commander to a dispatcher. "Tactical" is usually done on "mobile only" channels, and this is where the fire engines talk amongst themselves at a fire scene. Aircraft have their own channels.
For CalFire in San Diego County - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 151.19 R PL 131.8 - "Monte Vista"
Command - 151.355 R - (with 151.265 R + 151.34 R as backup)
Tac - 151.25 PL 192.8 M + 151.37 PL 192.8 M - (with 151.46 M and 151.475 M as backup)
Air to ground - 151.22 M
Air to Air - 151.2875 M
Air to Air (AM) - 135.975 + 130.20
For the Cleveland National Forest - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 168.75 R PL 103.5
Command - 168.15 or maybe 164.15 or maybe cellphone
Tac - 168.20 M
Air to Ground - 169.1125 M - (168.4875 M as backup channel)
Air to Air - 166.675 M
Air to Air (AM) - 135.575 + 130.20
For San Diego County fire units - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 800 TRS
Command - 154.175 R Red 2 / Command 1 + 154.235 R Green 1
Tac - 154.43 M Gold + 154.385 M Green 2 PL 110.9
Air to ground - ?
Air to Air ?
For San Diego County fire units in the north end of the county - these channels are available.
Dispatch - 800 TRS
Command - 153.89 R PL 100.0 Yellow + 153.815 R Brown
Tac - 154.25 M PL 0.0 North County Fire Tac 1 + 154.43 M PL 0.0 North County Fire Tac 2 + 154.415 M PL 0.0 North County Fire Tac 3
Air to ground - ?
For San Diego City - their typical radio usage goes like this.
Dispatch - 800 Trunked Radio System (TRS)
Command - 158.97 R
Tac - 154.31 M PL 103.5 "SDFD 1" + 154.145 M PL 103.5 "SDFD 2"
Air to ground - ?
Air to Air - ?
Border Area has a command repeater available for all agencies on 153.995 R with 172.25 input - Border Tac is 156.075 M
Oceanside Fire has several VHF channels available - 154.025 R PL 131.8 "V6" + 159.165 PL 127.3 "V7" + 156.015 PL 103.5 "V8" + 154.025 R PL 110.9 "V9" (different PL from V6 but same freqs)
San Diego County "Gray" might be available countywide as a spare tac channel - 154.355 M ?
San Diego County "Green 2" might also be available as a spare tac channel - 154.385 M (mobiles transmit PL 110.9)
Escondido FD has 154.325 BM PL 103.5 for "Dispatch" / "Escondido Green"
154.265 M and 154.295 M might receive extensive use as wildfire tac channels also
168.625 (BM) is used as an emergency channel for firefighting aircraft - if a plane runs into a problem, they will probably broadcast the details on this channel
168.05 (M) or 168.60 (M) will be used if 168.20 (M) is busy (already in use at a nearby incident)
166.675 (M) or 169.15 (M) or 169.20 (M) can be used as alternate air to ground channels if the primary air to ground channels are already being used at a nearby incident
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NIFC frequencies are only used for fires on federal lands or fires that started on federal lands and have spread to the SRA or LRA where the incident command remains with a federal incident management team. The Cedar Fire in was nearly 300,000 acres with Cal Fire in command. They used state frequencies for that, which were VHF of course.
Most fire departments that send apparatus to wildland fires have VHF radios available to them. Some carry a VHF handheld only and some also have a permanently mounted mobile radio. Some local departments interact with the Forest Service and Cal Fire on a daily basis, so they use their VHF a lot. Both L.A. County and L.A. City have VHF gear as do Glendale and other Verdugo departments. Counties that contract with Cal Fire for providing various types of fire services are on VHF and I don't recall any exceptions to that. Cal Fire's radio system is used. This situation exists in the smaller of California's counties.
Command channels for National Forests, National Parks and the BLM use local repeaters for initial attack. If a Type II or Type I incident management team assumes command NIFC frequencies are then used. Portable command repeaters are employed. Command traffic is always on radios, not cell phones. Cell phones or computers are used for incident to dispatcher traffic. If cell phone coverage does not exist the service net assigned to that forest is utilized and if service doesn't provide coverage one of the nets available locally is used, such as forest net, district net, park net, fire net, admin net or emergency net. Incident command posts are usually located where there is cell phone coverage. In remote areas where doing so would not be practical, computer access is provided by satellite. When an incident needs something it is ordered through the dispatcher at the interagency communications center covering the area the incident is in. If the request cannot be filled locally or if a national resource is involved the Geographic Area Coordination Center (GACC) is contacted, and depending on the resource and the number of large incidents occurring in the nation at the time, may have to be handled at the National Interagency Fire Center in Boise. Priorities are set at each level and incident management teams are not allowed to shortcut by contacting the GACC directly. National resources include all aircraft and hotshot crews. National resources cannot be held by the local unit they are assigned to, GACC's and NIFC move them depending on area or national needs.
When Type III incident command teams (local area teams) manage an incident they may need additional frequencies from those they use on a daily basis. Most of these teams do not have a Comm Unit Leader assigned so the incident commander requests the use of frequencies from the communications center for the area and it is in turn passed up to the level that is authorized to approve it. Type IV and V incidents are not complex enough to need additional frequencies.
Command traffic involves positions from the division supervisor and up through Branch Directors, ops chief to the incident commander. Readily available organization charts of the ICS system will show the sections of a incident, those being command, plans, logistics and finance. The positions shown under the operations chief utilize the command net.
Command is the frequency used by the communications base station at the Incident Command Post and identifies as "incident name - comm" or communications. This base station dispatches incident resources, however, the shift incident action plan shows the initial assignment of all shift resources. The plan cannot predict the dynamics of the incident and when resources have to be shifted incident comms is involved.
Division supervisors communicate on both command and tactical. The rule of thumb for determining the size of a division is that the division sup can walk its perimeter in one shift and be able to communicate with all the resources on the division on a tactical, simplex frequency. That rule of thumb cannot always be followed due to a number of factors I won't discuss here. Repeaters are not used for tactical communications. Requests from resources such as engines, water tenders, crews, dozers or the strike teams they may be formed into, are made of the division supervisors and then go up the line. These are generally short term need requests (that shift) and if involve subsequent shifts are made by the operations chief at the twice daily planning meetings.
Ground tactical, air to ground and air to air (both AM and FM) are pre-assigned for initial attack only. When an incident needs additional frequencies they are requested from and assigned by NIFC, with the exception of air to air AM frequencies that the FAA has control over. The frequencies assigned might be one of the six tacticals, 12 commands, 73 air to grounds, and unknown number of air tactical FM frequencies (some changes being made here as I write) many logistics frequencies and many UHF frequencies used to link repeaters.
On this last point, topography, size and number/location of fires in a "complex" sometimes require that more than one command repeater be used. Each of the repeaters use different frequencies and are tied together using UHF frequencies assigned for the purpose. Sometimes air tactical nets AM or FM) utilize remote bases linked to the command post using UHF frequencies assigned for those needs. All of these frequencies are listed on a wiki page in the database reached by clicking on the "nationwide frequency" tab on the first page of the database. Chose the line "National Incident Radio Support Cache" and then on the wiki tab on that page.
Tones are now used on the output frequency of command repeaters to reduce interference from distant incidents and, in southern California, reduce interference from illegal frequency use in Mexico. Right off hand I don't remember if the tones are used on the input frequency. Only tones 1-4 (110.0, 123.0, 131.8 and 136.5) are used for command repeaters.
Sometimes other frequencies are used based and derived from a master CD that is updated frequently. On it is a list of any frequency allocated to any federal agency not currently in use in one of many areas predetermined for use of the list. . The Comm Unit Leader assigned to an incident choses from this list and requests its use from the local comm center, which is forwarded on from the GACC to NIFC. If a frequency is assigned from this list it can be difficult to know where to look for it. This usually occurs when NIFC frequencies are all used by other nearby incidents.
There are other frequencies assigned for intra-crew logistical communications, for smokejumper air to ground and ground tactical uses, helicopter rappel operations, air tanker base traffic control and ramp coordination and for travel nets. The intra-crew frequencies are used for travel by hand crews and GACC's usually have pre assigned travel nets. There is not a national travel frequency assigned at this time.
I hope this is useful.
A couple of other points.
Air Guard can be used to make initial contact or redirect aircraft if communications cannot be established on any other frequency. Following this, communications must be established on another frequency. It cannot be used as an air to ground or tactical uses.
Use of some NIFC frequencies can be authorized by GACC's. I don't recall what frequencies are involved.
Air Guard can be used to make initial contact or redirect aircraft if communications cannot be established on any other frequency. Following this, communications must be established on another frequency. It cannot be used as an air to ground or tactical uses.
Use of some NIFC frequencies can be authorized by GACC's. I don't recall what frequencies are involved.
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