Neighborhood Watch Repeater

[wb6uqa]

gmrs repeater

The FCC no longer charges for a GMRS license . In Los Angeles the red cross uses the 2 meter ham band. They told me it is a shared band.

 

[sfd119]

The FCC no longer charges for a GMRS license . In Los Angeles the red cross uses the 2 meter ham band. They told me it is a shared band.

That's incorrect. FCC does indeed charge for GMRS licenses still. They had a fluke for one day earlier this year that allowed them for free. It has since been fixed.

 

[krokus]

Zello sounds like a good, efficient idea, but would it depend on the "weak or no signal" problem mentioned in the original post being overcome? Perhaps the coverage has gotten better in that area since the other options were tried.

Exactly. The lack of cell signal is a key point, in the OP.

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[SteveC0625]

The FCC no longer charges for a GMRS license . In Los Angeles the red cross uses the 2 meter ham band. They told me it is a shared band.

WRONG....

The FCC dropped the regulatory fee. The GMRS license now costs $65. There was a brief, accidental period of a few hours when the license was free as the FCC converted their online pricing.

Two meter ham frequencies require the appropriate amateur license. There is no sharing of these frequencies with other services.

 

[krokus]

In Los Angeles the red cross uses the 2 meter ham band. They told me it is a shared band.

The ARC might be having comms provided by hams, but it is not a shared band.

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[RADIOGUY2002]

Some of the fcc statements are not exactly accurate. The phone app is a pain in the butt when you want to communicate with certain people and I would consider an extension of nextel in direct talk. Direct talk never worked well for me as in never cover the foot print, then again nor did I expect it to. GMRS repeaters can be costly but also can be relatively an expensive if you have support backing you. Their are plenty of version of radios that support inversion, etc. Plus their are unique ways to alter access in and out of a machine. It looks as if he's the leader so I would take that he would take control. You might be shocked to know some radio shops may even support this type of activity and might find a place for you. It never hurts to ask, just about every major city has a radio shop if not two. In a real world situation you'll need height, but you don't want to much height as it will open you up to more unwanted users. I would say about 30ft would be ideal, you could get away with relatively in expensive lmr-400 cable and a cheap tram antenna to support the repeater. A decedent radio shop could link two mobile together for you with a duplexer. Easier to trouble shoot and lower cost associated with it. I selling you a vertex repeater right now for cheap but its to leaky and you don't need that unless you want to bury it in some type of structure. PM I give some ideas on how to make it work if your interested. I own two repeaters and have been doing this for a little while. Its not perfect and their are some hurtles you may have to overcome but it is doable.

 

[RADIOGUY2002]

The ARC might be having comms provided by hams, but it is not a shared band.

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Shared, I laugh at that two. What I think they meant to say is we have a ham op that we can use if needed to help us communicate. That individual might be a red cross member, ""context of the wording"". However in a act of emergency deceleration it does not matter, which in the very nature of the red cross could always be an option. The preferred choice is the above a ham op.

 

[cmdrwill]

Los Angeles Region American Red Cross got rid of all the Ham radio gear and volunteer operators.

 

[SpugEddy]

RadioGuy. I certainly will get in touch.

As far as the GMRS licensing issue being discussed, there IS still a fee for GMRS licensing and it is now $65.00. One of our guys just purchased one last week.

 

[CaptDan]

Is your town watch - recognized by the town government ?

I see you are in NJ - many local Police - Fire - EMS units are going onto regional - county - state radio systems and already have vhf and of UHF repeaters in place on their antenna systems. IF you are recognized by the local government you might want to inquire if they have any decommissioned radio equipment in uhf or vhf bands. Would be great if someone had a system in the UHF band.

I know several agencies - mostly fire departments that officially switched over to a regional radio system and have turned their UHF repeater into a GMRS repeater - licensed to one member - and now allows all of the fire departments members and their families use the repeater. Of course they expect everyone to be properly licensed - but a great way to use obsolete equipment

Just an idea - something you could investigate

 

[johnls7424]

Is your town watch - recognized by the town government ?

I see you are in NJ - many local Police - Fire - EMS units are going onto regional - county - state radio systems and already have vhf and of UHF repeaters in place on their antenna systems. IF you are recognized by the local government you might want to inquire if they have any decommissioned radio equipment in uhf or vhf bands. Would be great if someone had a system in the UHF band.

I know several agencies - mostly fire departments that officially switched over to a regional radio system and have turned their UHF repeater into a GMRS repeater - licensed to one member - and now allows all of the fire departments members and their families use the repeater. Of course they expect everyone to be properly licensed - but a great way to use obsolete equipment

Just an idea - something you could investigate

Some equipment is auctioned off to the general public, however many aging equipment is still sold however local municipalities ( especially here in NJ do this) return their aging equipment back to the vendors they got them from for a type of credit towards purchasing newer equipment when their upgrading. Then vendor then sells it at fair market share values to radio shops, online, etc.

 

[RADIOGUY2002]

MARKET VALUE

Some equipment is auctioned off to the general public, however many aging equipment is still sold however local municipalities ( especially here in NJ do this) return their aging equipment back to the vendors they got them from for a type of credit towards purchasing newer equipment when their upgrading. Then vendor then sells it at fair market share values to radio shops, online, etc.

Yeap, thats pretty typical. I would imagine in the case of the uhf gmrs repeater for the fire guys, someone probably asked the chief to take a bite at it before it went to auction. Their are cheap radios out their he could buy for the group as well, nothing that's going to cost 300.00 plus. HT1000's are relatively cheap and still have a good life left on them etc. Motorola discounted the ht line for certain models, those will be cheaper now.

 

[johnls7424]

Yeap, thats pretty typical. I would imagine in the case of the uhf gmrs repeater for the fire guys, someone probably asked the chief to take a bite at it before it went to auction. Their are cheap radios out their he could buy for the group as well, nothing that's going to cost 300.00 plus. HT1000's are relatively cheap and still have a good life left on them etc. Motorola discounted the ht line for certain models, those will be cheaper now.

In a perfect world yea... However it's not and that mentality from government entities rarely exists anymore. They will just say " what's wrong with your pager we issued you" or " radios are only needed at a seconds notice and only fire command officers should be issued one". The list goes on and on. A firefighter can however just use a scanner anymore now adays as they have done in the past or buy a cheaper line of radios that have good duriability on their own dime, such as the blackbox line of radios.

 

[wb6uqa]

repeaters

Eham.net and qrz.com classified has low price repeaters.

 

[baltimorecs]

If you want to go the GMRS repeater route: You can get a GR-1225 repeater with duplexer for as low as $280 before shipping on Ebay (I picked that deal up five weeks ago.). It is Part 95 and will run 25 watts for neighborhood watch use easily. Parts are plentiful on Ebay and other online sites. I decided to buy a non working version from Ebay for parts for $110 and it ended up working fine. It just needed programming had a disconnected power supply cable.

 

[CaptDan]

Some equipment is auctioned off to the general public, however many aging equipment is still sold however local municipalities ( especially here in NJ do this) return their aging equipment back to the vendors they got them from for a type of credit towards purchasing newer equipment when their upgrading. Then vendor then sells it at fair market share values to radio shops, online, etc.

With over 550 municipal governments and so many volunteer first responded organizations in New Jersey - there are many many different ways that obsolete equipment - communications or otherwise - is handled or disposed of. With the FCC mandated re-banding and narrow band requirements there is a surplus of used equipment - depending exactly what the equipment is, it's condition - often the trade in offer or credit is just on paper - the company really has no interest in the old equipment.

My original comment was concerning established UHF repeaters. I will not name specific municipalities because not looking to put someone in the jackpot if whatever they did was/is not 150% proper. There are 5 "organizations" in the Central NJ - eastern PA area that when the municipality or local fire dept had to buy new equipment to switch to a regional communications system and in one case the municipality was just buying a completely new communications system. They kept at least one of the UHF repeaters in place on their existing tower(s) and allowed it to be converted to a GMRS repeater.

3 of the 5 that I know of involve volunteer first responder organizations. The organization kept the UHF repeater in place - converted it to a GMRS repeater - members buy their own radios to use with the system if they wish. members like having their "own" channel and that they can have casual conversations on their own channel, also that there family members may also use the system.

One of the systems operates in a large city that recently switched to a new digital trunked radio system from a combination of various VHF and UHF systems throughout the City. I have no idea at what level it was approved or even of it was approved - but one of the UHF repeaters was left in place and converted to a GMRS repeater that offers excellent coverage. From what i understand it was juts left in place with a bunch of other communications equipment - the average agency administrator would have no idea what he/she is looking at in a room full of radio equipment. I know the first thought might be - didn't the old stuff - repeaters - antennas etc have to be removed to make room for the new stuff - because these are 24/7/365 operations - old equipment needed to remain in place and operational until the new "stuff" was installed and up and running.

So - the whole point of this was - if the neighborhood watch is a legit and recognized by the local government - you might want to ask if they still have any repeaters in place that operate on UHF and could be made available for the neighborhood watch's use. If not go to plan "B" whatever that might be.

 

[johnls7424]

With over 550 municipal governments and so many volunteer first responded organizations in New Jersey - there are many many different ways that obsolete equipment - communications or otherwise - is handled or disposed of. With the FCC mandated re-banding and narrow band requirements there is a surplus of used equipment - depending exactly what the equipment is, it's condition - often the trade in offer or credit is just on paper - the company really has no interest in the old equipment.

My original comment was concerning established UHF repeaters. I will not name specific municipalities because not looking to put someone in the jackpot if whatever they did was/is not 150% proper. There are 5 "organizations" in the Central NJ - eastern PA area that when the municipality or local fire dept had to buy new equipment to switch to a regional communications system and in one case the municipality was just buying a completely new communications system. They kept at least one of the UHF repeaters in place on their existing tower(s) and allowed it to be converted to a GMRS repeater.

3 of the 5 that I know of involve volunteer first responder organizations. The organization kept the UHF repeater in place - converted it to a GMRS repeater - members buy their own radios to use with the system if they wish. members like having their "own" channel and that they can have casual conversations on their own channel, also that there family members may also use the system.

One of the systems operates in a large city that recently switched to a new digital trunked radio system from a combination of various VHF and UHF systems throughout the City. I have no idea at what level it was approved or even of it was approved - but one of the UHF repeaters was left in place and converted to a GMRS repeater that offers excellent coverage. From what i understand it was juts left in place with a bunch of other communications equipment - the average agency administrator would have no idea what he/she is looking at in a room full of radio equipment. I know the first thought might be - didn't the old stuff - repeaters - antennas etc have to be removed to make room for the new stuff - because these are 24/7/365 operations - old equipment needed to remain in place and operational until the new "stuff" was installed and up and running.

So - the whole point of this was - if the neighborhood watch is a legit and recognized by the local government - you might want to ask if they still have any repeaters in place that operate on UHF and could be made available for the neighborhood watch's use. If not go to plan "B" whatever that might be.

Neighborhood watches were very popular in the late 70's to early 80's when policing was still a traditional style of policing. With community policing becoming standardized now ( even police academies teaching that mentality) neighborhood watches in NJ are quite scarce. Urban areas like Plainfield, Paterson and I believe Newark do have similar programs like neighborhood watch, but cell phones have replaced traditional two way radios for all intensive purposes. Just like you see on the NJ Transit commercials here in NJ " if you see something say something". They don't mean get your two way radio and key up the mic and report it. It's simply dial 911 or a non-emergency dispatch number and report suspicious activities. For civilans in given settings it's just more practical and more efficient overal. You can have on speed-dial a neighborhood watch commander and quickly phone them before you report activities as well as your location, etc etc.

What would be interesting to know out of this... Maybe someone on here can confirm if they are a member of this group... Is anyone on here from NYC, reading this a part of the Guardian Angels group. That has to be the biggest neighborhood watch group in the United States. If you are a member, please share if you as me members use radios or have cell phones replaced your duties?

 

[wa1nic]

If you are going the repeater route and are currently using bubblepack FRS/GMRS radios, they will not work with a repeater as they do not have offset capability... at least 99% of them do not.

May I suggest that a few of the people in your group get their hands on some decent GMRS radios and decent base antennas and put them in their homes. That way, you wont have one control op, you will have many. Handheld to base range is typically substantially (3-5X) greater than handheld to handheld.

For instance, an ICOM F6021 radio and a Comet CA-712EF antenna will really work well. Someone in the group will have to program the ICOMS, so you will have to get at least one programming cable and software, or else pay to have them all programmed.

And yes, each family in the group will have to get their own $65 license to be legal.

 

[aussierescueil]

Jim

If I could offer my 2 cents, the least costly way to go in your case is have every one with a smart phone download the Zello app either from the ITunes or Google play.

Also download the PC app as well.

You can use the free version, I have been playing with for the last 2 weeks, and it works good.

What is nice about you set up a main channel for your watch group and when someone goes on duty per-say they log in to the channel.

Any one with computer can act as your base station as long as they have internet access.

It use your Wi-Fi internet, as well as 2G, 3G, 4G, or LTE cell service. As for the data used in just voice mode it appears to very low usage.

There is slight learning process, however over all I found to cheap way to have 2 way private radio.

The biggest thing I see is when you set up your user name, it will only allow you to logged on 1 device at time.

For giggle, I put it on old cell that is not hooked up to any cell service and worked just fine off WIFI service.

Also any radio transmission you make is recorded by any unit that receive the signal. < of course you can delete as well>

The nice part is of it you can be on line and working with in 2 to 3 minute, with no added costs to anyone.

I hope that helps.

I am new here, but Jimbnks gives a great review an how to on the Zello app, the wife and I used this till we got our repeater up, I know of one individual that actually paired up Zello with his GMRS repeater.

I have a regional dog rescue that I felt this would be an ideal way to coordinate lost dog searches, events, etc., since everyone has a smartphone it seems these days.

 

[mformby]

Are there enough houses to donate to your cause? I mean it is for their protection. If you could could have a neighborhood meeting or go door to door and ask for their help maybe you would get it. If so, get an FCC business license, small repeater and some entry level portable radios and you don't need someone to man the base station. As someone mentioned, go with radio that have frequency inversion for privacy. Several companies make them even on lower priced radios. Your intention is commendable. I hope you can get it going.