New Bedford Police going digital

[KB1UAM]

Hello everybody, i am just giving everybody a heads up in the southcoast area that new bedford police is going P25 digital by the end of summer. Also the city services such as New Bedford EMA, DPI, DPF, HDC, highway, and water, and airport are going MOTOTRBO. Also The New Bedford Housing Authority has already made the change to MOTOTRBO. The only agencies you are going to be able to monitor will be New Bedford Police, and New Bedford Fire. The city is also going to implement 1 or 2 mutual aid "interop" analog frequencies which will be UHF repeaters. all surrounding communities will have the capability to talk on the interop channels.

 

[vinzep491]

Thanks for the info, and be sure to keep us and the DB updated as things change.

Any word on ENC?

 

[KB1UAM]

nope there will be no encryption, just regular P25 mode, any digital capable scanner will still be able to monitor. all other city services will be encrypted (MOTOTRBO)

 

[StoliRaz]

Blah!

Digital=waste of money. Some salesman ripped off NB...what's worse, the garbageman and the guy working in a manhole get encrypted yet the PD doesn't???? Seems rather blass ackwards to me..glad I live far enough away that I can't hear them, so moot point anyways...

 

[ecps92]

No one has confirmed that the TRBO in-use is Encrypted.

Its just not a modulation that can be heard by our current scanners without external software. :wink:

If someone does try then we will know if it's encrypted or not. I'm guessing NOT.

Digital=waste of money. Some salesman ripped off NB...what's worse, the garbageman and the guy working in a manhole get encrypted yet the PD doesn't???? Seems rather blass ackwards to me..glad I live far enough away that I can't hear them, so moot point anyways...

 

[vinzep491]

Yes - I , too, doubt the TRBO will utilize ENC... it's just not monitorable via a normal scanner.

It'll still be possible with DSD.

 

[KB1UAM]

now where can i get this DSD software.

 

[mrsvensven]

now where can i get this DSD software.

Try a google search. It's one of the first results if you search for MotoTRBO decoder.

 

[vinzep491]

Right here:

Digital Speech Decoder (software package) - The RadioReference Wiki

Enjoy!

 

[StoliRaz]

Ah, I see, thanks guys.

I miss the old days, before all of this digital and trunking crap :-(

 

[vinzep491]

Ah, I see, thanks guys.

I miss the old days, before all of this digital and trunking crap :-(

Digital definitly complicates things in comparison to listening in the ol' days, but it also brings alot of positives.

 

[JRayfield]

If you were a cop or firefighter, risking your life to help others, you wouldn't say that. Most of the old conventional analog systems are 'pathetic' in their operation. Trunking, and especially digital, has finally helped to improve the communications that many of these people who risk their lives everyday, need for their own protection, as well as to do a better job of protecting you and me.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Ah, I see, thanks guys.

I miss the old days, before all of this digital and trunking crap :-(

 

[ecps92]

If you mean lack of Maintenance and Upgrade, yes then Pathetic.

However adding layers or technology and not providing Training and Re-Training [we do it with CPR, Guns, Fire Science, Medical] with the new radios opens them to MORE RISK than the conventional systems.

As someone what Zone their National Interop channels are in and you get a blank stare.

Conventional systems have less complications and less failures.

Digital is still open for discussion with it's issues of range/drop outs on poor signals, when analog can still be deceiphered by a seasoned operator.

If you were a cop or firefighter, risking your life to help others, you wouldn't say that. Most of the old conventional analog systems are 'pathetic' in their operation. Trunking, and especially digital, has finally helped to improve the communications that many of these people who risk their lives everyday, need for their own protection, as well as to do a better job of protecting you and me.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

 

[JRayfield]

Yes, maintenance can come into the picture, but most of these analog systems that I see are using fairly new equipment (sometimes very new). Mostly they have very poor coverage. To increase coverage, they have to be 'expanded' using technology that costs too much for the agencies involved to be able to afford and isn't very realiable and often requires a lot of maintenance to keep it operating properly (as compared to newer digital technology).

Properly designed digital systems, using the latest digital technologies (and I don't necessarily mean P25 Phase 1 - it's definitely not the latest in technology) perform better than analog in almost all cases, including with weak signals. Such digital systems can give good coverage down to the point where analog becomes unusable - then it 'drops out'. In fact, most of these newer digital systems can provide better range than analog.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

If you mean lack of Maintenance and Upgrade, yes then Pathetic.

However adding layers or technology and not providing Training and Re-Training [we do it with CPR, Guns, Fire Science, Medical] with the new radios opens them to MORE RISK than the conventional systems.

As someone what Zone their National Interop channels are in and you get a blank stare.

Conventional systems have less complications and less failures.

Digital is still open for discussion with it's issues of range/drop outs on poor signals, when analog can still be deceiphered by a seasoned operator.

 

[KB1UAM]

just got word that this project should be completed by July, 01, 2011. also the portable radios that aren't digital compatible are being replaced by kenwood TK-5220's

 

[garys]

Yes, maintenance can come into the picture, but most of these analog systems that I see are using fairly new equipment (sometimes very new). Mostly they have very poor coverage. To increase coverage, they have to be 'expanded' using technology that costs too much for the agencies involved to be able to afford and isn't very realiable and often requires a lot of maintenance to keep it operating properly (as compared to newer digital technology).
John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Every engineer I've talked to tells me that digital requires more receiver and transmitter sites to provide the same level of coverage that analog systems do.

As ecps92 points out, another feature of analog systems is that even weak signals can be heard and a skilled dispatcher can pick out a particular voice from the hash. With digital, once the signal drops below a preset threshold, the system doesn't even recognize it.

Keep in mind that the NFPA has set guidelines for on scene fire operations that exclude digital and trunked systems.

I don't know why you would think that digital systems are less expensive to build and operate. Everything has to be replaced. Mobiles, portables, receivers, transmitters, comparators, consoles. All of it.

 

[burawski]

I used to enjoy scanning but I am getting too frustrated anymore to have much fun with it anymore. I have a BC996T that works great and I never had a problem after I inputted the firmware updates to it. These systems are getting too complicated anymore for me to bother with it. I understand the need for encryption in certain types of communications as well. It just seems to me that too many agencies are starting to encrypt or incur systems that are just too much of a pain in the a$$ for me to put time into it. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. I still miss the days when I had my Radio Shack Patrolman 9 (with the meter!). Boy, those were the days. I know I know. I'm a fossil and haven't changed with the times. I guess not.

KJ4BWQ

 

[wtfover]

Every engineer I've talked to tells me that digital requires more receiver and transmitter sites to provide the same level of coverage that analog systems do.

As ecps92 points out, another feature of analog systems is that even weak signals can be heard and a skilled dispatcher can pick out a particular voice from the hash. With digital, once the signal drops below a preset threshold, the system doesn't even recognize it.

Keep in mind that the NFPA has set guidelines for on scene fire operations that exclude digital and trunked systems.
.

The whole Analog vs Digital is like Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge. Your mileage will vary. Some say analog is better, some say digital is better for coverage. With analog you can get to a point where your totally unreadable. You may still be able to bring the repeater up, but not pass anything more then lots of noise. With digital you either have the ability to talk or not. If your signal isn't strong enough you don't talk.

As for the NFPA, you can simply create a analog conventional talk-around channel to be used on-scene.

 

[JRayfield]

I've heard the same, with regards to more sites needed, for P25 systems. But, "not all digital is created equal". For example, MOTOTRBO provides better range than analog, in most cases, so for the same coverage of a given area, less MOTOTRBO repeater sites would be needed, as compared to analog.

With regards to the voice dropping out below a 'preset level', that point of 'drop out' with MOTOTRBO is at the point that it would be unreadable if it were analog. However, I can see where, with a very weak and unreadable analog signal, a dispatcher would know that someone is calling (squelch opens and he/she hears noise). With most any digital system (even MOTOTRBO), if the signal is that weak, then the dispatcher may hear nothing (not even 'digitized' audio).

And with reference to cost, it's must less costly to completely replace some old analog systems with new MOTOTRBO systems, as compared to installing simulcast-transmit voted-receive systems to 'update' the old analog systems.

The NFPA has done the same thing that everyone else has done - they've 'lumped' all digital together. That's a shame, since MOTOTRBO radios work better in high-noise environments than analog radios.

I bring up MOTOTRBO as an example of the new digital technologies that are far more cost-effective as compared to P25, and are far newer (and possibly perform better than P25, as well).

Instead of just referring to "digital", everyone needs to start referring to the specific type of digital system to which they're referring, when discussing any of these digital systems. As I said, "not all digital is created equal".

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Every engineer I've talked to tells me that digital requires more receiver and transmitter sites to provide the same level of coverage that analog systems do.

As ecps92 points out, another feature of analog systems is that even weak signals can be heard and a skilled dispatcher can pick out a particular voice from the hash. With digital, once the signal drops below a preset threshold, the system doesn't even recognize it.

Keep in mind that the NFPA has set guidelines for on scene fire operations that exclude digital and trunked systems.

I don't know why you would think that digital systems are less expensive to build and operate. Everything has to be replaced. Mobiles, portables, receivers, transmitters, comparators, consoles. All of it.

 

[garys]

I've heard the same, with regards to more sites needed, for P25 systems. But, "not all digital is created equal". For example, MOTOTRBO provides better range than analog, in most cases, so for the same coverage of a given area, less MOTOTRBO repeater sites would be needed, as compared to analog.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Amongst the problems with MOTOTRBO is that it's proprietary, which means that if someone wants to use the technology they have to buy Motorola equipment. Which is going to create technical, operational, and funding problems since interoperability is key to getting grant money. If public safety, or some of it, is going to go digital, it makes much more sense for there to be ONE standard, not several.

MOTOTRBO works fine for non public safety entities that don't have to worry about communicating with other agencies or jurisdictions.

Personally, I like the approach that public safety agencies in NYC, and Boston, among others are taking by maximizing the analog technology.