New Bedford Police going digital

[JRayfield]

While there are some aspects to MOTOTRBO that are proprietary, the DMR protocol is not, so an agency wouldn't necessarily be 'stuck' with having to by Motorola equipment in all cases. But in some cases, if they want certain features, then yes, those might be proprietary. It's very similar with P25 - Astro 25 can include some proprietary features, but the 'basic' system is 'open' (for the most part).

Interoperability does not have to occur at the 'radio level'. In fact, not all P25 radios are 'interoperable'. A P25 conventional radio will not operate with a P25 radio on a trunking system, unless there's some kind of 'bridge' made between the two 'systems' (conventional and P25). This is something that appears to have been overlooked by many people. They think that if a radio is "P25", then it's "interoperable". But that isn't necessarily the case. I can easily set up a very nice 'interoperable' system with MOTOTRBO and analog, that will be just as 'interoperable' as a P25 conventional and P25 trunking system, for MUCH less money than the P25 systems.

What approach have they used in NYC and Boston to 'maximize' the analog technology? You've got me curious.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Amongst the problems with MOTOTRBO is that it's proprietary, which means that if someone wants to use the technology they have to buy Motorola equipment. Which is going to create technical, operational, and funding problems since interoperability is key to getting grant money. If public safety, or some of it, is going to go digital, it makes much more sense for there to be ONE standard, not several.

MOTOTRBO works fine for non public safety entities that don't have to worry about communicating with other agencies or jurisdictions.

Personally, I like the approach that public safety agencies in NYC, and Boston, among others are taking by maximizing the analog technology.

 

[KB1UAM]

here is just an update on the project... i found the new license for the MOTOTRBO system nothing on the NBPD going digital yet. here is the link to the FCC application, it is still technically owned by comtronics however a transfer should occur sometime nextweek, this is what i was told. http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/ApplicationSearch/applFreqSum.jsp?applID=6044710 the WQNL339 is the MOTOTRBO system. http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/ApplicationSearch/applFreqSum.jsp?applID=6044710

 

[WA1ATA]

just got word that this project should be completed by July, 01, 2011. also the portable radios that aren't digital compatible are being replaced by kenwood TK-5220's

What's the latest update?

I still hear both New Bedford police and Fire on their old analog freqs.

 

[KB1UAM]

well the MOTOTRBO system is almost fully operational. as for the police department they wont be switching until the end of the year by the latest, as for the fire department there not changing anything, the cities new "INTEROP" freq is on the air, the frequency is 452.4500 DPL:243, and the EMS department is 463.7125 DPL:243 i believe. you should listen into the 452.4500 during sunday for the storm i am pretty sure it will be very busy, also we implemented the UTAC interop system into every radio in the city as well.

 

[ecps92]

452.4500 is still licensed in the wrong town and to the Radio Shop not the town as is 463.7125 all the emissions are MotoTrbo not Analog, which would not have a PL or DPL

well the MOTOTRBO system is almost fully operational. as for the police department they wont be switching until the end of the year by the latest, as for the fire department there not changing anything, the cities new "INTEROP" freq is on the air, the frequency is 452.4500 DPL:243, and the EMS department is 463.7125 DPL:243 i believe. you should listen into the 452.4500 during sunday for the storm i am pretty sure it will be very busy, also we implemented the UTAC interop system into every radio in the city as well.

 

[KB1UAM]

these frequencies are correct and confirmed by me, they are analog. plug them into your scanner and you will hear that they are analog

 

[ecps92]

What I said was:

The License says TRBO, the License doesn't indicate Analog
and the Licenses says "Bedford" not "New Bedford"... still..... :roll:

these frequencies are correct and confirmed by me, they are analog. plug them into your scanner and you will hear that they are analog

 

[KB1UAM]

oh ok i'm sorry, i miss understood you.

 

[garys]

well the MOTOTRBO system is almost fully operational. as for the police department they wont be switching until the end of the year by the latest, as for the fire department there not changing anything, the cities new "INTEROP" freq is on the air, the frequency is 452.4500 DPL:243, and the EMS department is 463.7125 DPL:243 i believe. you should listen into the 452.4500 during sunday for the storm i am pretty sure it will be very busy, also we implemented the UTAC interop system into every radio in the city as well.

Refresh my memory, is the EMS channel for dispatch or talk around? If they are moving EMS off of the PD channel, who is going to do the dispatching?

I'll try the new frequencies, but NB is spotty into my house most of the time.

When I worked at St Luke's back in the late 1990s, the talk was that NBPD was going digital. That was when they replaced all of their Kenwood stuff with Motorola and we got new portables that were supposed to be digital capable, but actually weren't. In any case, the PD just updated their system, but stayed analog.

Ancient history now as the St. Luke's paramedic service has been gone for several years.

 

[WA1ATA]

Here's some background info from a Feb 9, 2011 city council finance committee meeting: http://www.newbedford-ma.gov/Council/2011/finance/mfin0209.pdf . Relevant section starts in the middle of the first page.

$1M loan taken out by the City of New Bedford. Vincent Mascio and Cathy Leonard of Comtronics addressed the finance committee of New Bedford council.

"The equipment was tested and works incredibly well in all areas of the city.
They also stated that an analogue system was also tested, which was cheaper, but that only 65% of the city was covered, where with the proposed system, 100% of the city, from the extreme south to north ends and everything in between, was covered."

"Councillor Gomes asked Lt. Richard Netinho, Communications Officer for the NBPD his opinion of
this system and equipment. Lt. Netinho stated that he is extremely satisfied with the system. Catherine Leonard
also noted that Ms. Travers was actually doing two things at once with this purchase: 1. Adhering to the FCC
requirement to go to 12 KHz from 25, and 2. Going digital. She said this is a great opportunity for the city to
upgrade its technology and effectiveness of its communications.
Councillor Duarte asked how long it would take to fully implement this system. Debra Travers
answered that it would take approximately 90 days."

(Travers is a city purchasing agent).

----------------------------------

So the analog system would only cover 65% of the city????

It seems like yet another city has gone for the expensive conversion to digital rather than just narrowbanding the existing system.

------------------------------------------

As ecps92 / Bill Dunn noted, the FCC license erroneously lists the city as Bedford, MA, rather than New Bedford.

I can't quite figure out the antenna location. It seems to be on a tall building just north of the octopus intersection rather than being on the current tower.

The license is for freqs out of the industrial/business pool instead of public safety pool. License holder is Comtronics.

I'm surprised that Comtronics doesn't plan to charge any monthly fees --- at least that's what they told the finance committee: "Councillor Morad then asked what the annual cost would be for the system. Vincent Mascio stated that there are absolutely no monthly or recurring fees at all."

 

[WA1ATA]

I hear a digital signal on 464.3875, but nothing on the other freqs of the Comtronics license WQNL339.
ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Trunked License - WQNL339 - Comtronics Corporation

The FCC license lists emissions designators of 7K60FXD and 7K60FXE, which apparently are 2-slot DMR (Motorola MOTOTRBO) TDMA data and 2-slot DMR (Motorola MOTOTRBO) TDMA voice.

I'm not 100% sure it is the New Bedford signal, but that's the only licensee in the local area other than some 50 milliwatt mobiles licensed to various McDonald's restaurants, the closet of which is in Providence about 20 miles away.

 

[KB1UAM]

Refresh my memory, is the EMS channel for dispatch or talk around? If they are moving EMS off of the PD channel, who is going to do the dispatching?

I'll try the new frequencies, but NB is spotty into my house most of the time.

When I worked at St Luke's back in the late 1990s, the talk was that NBPD was going digital. That was when they replaced all of their Kenwood stuff with Motorola and we got new portables that were supposed to be digital capable, but actually weren't. In any case, the PD just updated their system, but stayed analog.

Ancient history now as the St. Luke's paramedic service has been gone for several years.

new bedford EMS channel is going to be a talk-around frequency. I see in some vehicles it looks like xtl 1500s, they look pretty nice with alpha display and everything

 

[garys]

new bedford EMS channel is going to be a talk-around frequency. I see in some vehicles it looks like xtl 1500s, they look pretty nice with alpha display and everything

Thanks.

 

[JRayfield]

Why would they want to move to narrowband analog, if they don't get good coverage of the city with analog?

Often, narrowband analog provides less range than wideband analog.

MOTOTRBO provides better coverage than wideband analog and much better coverage than narrowband analog.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Here's some background info from a Feb 9, 2011 city council finance committee meeting: http://www.newbedford-ma.gov/Council/2011/finance/mfin0209.pdf . Relevant section starts in the middle of the first page.

$1M loan taken out by the City of New Bedford. Vincent Mascio and Cathy Leonard of Comtronics addressed the finance committee of New Bedford council.

"The equipment was tested and works incredibly well in all areas of the city.
They also stated that an analogue system was also tested, which was cheaper, but that only 65% of the city was covered, where with the proposed system, 100% of the city, from the extreme south to north ends and everything in between, was covered."

"Councillor Gomes asked Lt. Richard Netinho, Communications Officer for the NBPD his opinion of
this system and equipment. Lt. Netinho stated that he is extremely satisfied with the system. Catherine Leonard
also noted that Ms. Travers was actually doing two things at once with this purchase: 1. Adhering to the FCC
requirement to go to 12 KHz from 25, and 2. Going digital. She said this is a great opportunity for the city to
upgrade its technology and effectiveness of its communications.
Councillor Duarte asked how long it would take to fully implement this system. Debra Travers
answered that it would take approximately 90 days."

(Travers is a city purchasing agent).

----------------------------------

So the analog system would only cover 65% of the city????

It seems like yet another city has gone for the expensive conversion to digital rather than just narrowbanding the existing system.

------------------------------------------

As ecps92 / Bill Dunn noted, the FCC license erroneously lists the city as Bedford, MA, rather than New Bedford.

I can't quite figure out the antenna location. It seems to be on a tall building just north of the octopus intersection rather than being on the current tower.

The license is for freqs out of the industrial/business pool instead of public safety pool. License holder is Comtronics.

I'm surprised that Comtronics doesn't plan to charge any monthly fees --- at least that's what they told the finance committee: "Councillor Morad then asked what the annual cost would be for the system. Vincent Mascio stated that there are absolutely no monthly or recurring fees at all."

 

[WA1ATA]

Why would they want to move to narrowband analog, if they don't get good coverage of the city with analog?

Often, narrowband analog provides less range than wideband analog.

MOTOTRBO provides better coverage than wideband analog and much better coverage than narrowband analog.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Note that it is the vendor of the new equipment that says they don't get good coverage of the city with analog.

I think it is a case of apples and oranges comparison. The vendor, Comtronics, appears to have an antenna at a different location than the current analog system tower(s). With their antenna location, they say they have coverage problems with an analog system.

On the other hand, I have not heard of any coverage problems with the current system, using the current transmitters.

 

[zerg901]

I think that the 100% coverage level is due to the "Pinocchio Effect".

 

[KB1UAM]

just an update from my end. I heard P25 transmissions this morning but they were too short to catch a NAC number, i heard 5 counts 1 time and forgot to turn on the decoder so no NAC information as of yet, i'll try to catch it again

 

[KB1UAM]

hello everybody. i'm just giving everybody an update. i caught the NAC codes for new bedford police. channel 1 is $232. channel 2 is $233. I also heard testing during the monthly RACES drill on the cities citywide interop channel. i heard testing on 452.4500 DPL: 243 with acushnet and fairhaven ema's, so i'm thinking this is a small inter-town mutual aid interop system.

 

[zerg901]

KB1UAM - thanks for the update. 452.45 is a repeater - right?

 

[W1KNE]

i heard testing on 452.4500 DPL: 243 with acushnet and fairhaven ema's, so i'm thinking this is a small inter-town mutual aid interop system.

So you haven't confirmed this , correct? You're just assuming that this is what this is, based on the one test?