New Jersey Transit page in DB says "Hunter, NJ"?

[Analogrules]

I notice that once again the New Jersey Transit (Railroads) page in the db is getting updated. I also noticed that under Raritan Valley Line lists a town that does not even exist in NJ (Hunter) and also mentions Aldine (which is a town way down in Salem County not anywhere near the Raritan Line).

I am not sure who continues to put in this bogus info, but as a rider on that line at least three times per week, I can tell you all that between Cranford and Union, 160.860 is used. Between Union and Newark Penn, 161.010 is used. West of Cranford to High Bridge, 161.235 is used. It is as simple as that and db should state these facts.

 

[GTR8000]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldene_Connection

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehigh_Line_Connection

C'mon man, do 30 seconds of research on Google before making a whiny post accusing people of putting "bogus info" into the RRDB. Your shtick of always criticizing is getting old. :roll:

 

[Analogrules]

GTR800, your rudeness is getting old. Furthermore, anyone can write or edit what they want in Wikipedia, so those sources are not even credible.

My point is that there are NO NJ TRANSIT STATIONS CALLED HUNTER OR ALDENE. Therefore, the average rider or hobbyist can be very confused as to where those frequencies are actually being used. But keep it confusing the way you want it, I don't care anymore. I am just glad I keep my own notes at home with less confusing information.

 

[W2SJW]

Just as GTR8000 said, those are 'control points (CP)' & are perfectly valid. I hear those come up in read-backs on Form-D's all the time...

 

[RadioDitch]

My point is that there are NO NJ TRANSIT STATIONS CALLED HUNTER OR ALDENE. Therefore, the average rider or hobbyist can be very confused as to where those frequencies are actually being used. But keep it confusing the way you want it, I don't care anymore. I am just glad I keep my own notes at home with less confusing information.

Actually he is right...technically...kind of sort of.

CP-Aldene (pronounced AL-dean) is the possession and territory of Conrail as part of the Lehigh Line. Hunter Interlocking (including Hunter High) is the possession and territory of Amtrak as part of the Hunter Connecting Track (aka: Main Line NY&P Tracks 5 & 6).

While Raritan Line (Raritan Valley Line is a service, not a route name) trains operate over these sections of railroad, they are not NJTransit Rail Operations and really shouldn't be listed as such.

To be honest, the page is quite a mess now.

 

[GTR8000]

I wasn't condoning the naming, merely pointing out that 30 seconds of research would've revealed the origin of the two names. Instead, we have a chronic complainer tossing out accusations that "bogus info" is being put into the database. That was clearly a false accusation and could've been avoided by not jumping the gun.

As far as the larger issue of the railroad pages (both NJ and NY), I have an issue with the fact that the person maintaining those pages is thousands of miles away and has essentially turned those pages on their head over the past year. There was nothing wrong with the existing pages that were there for years, but someone came along and felt he knew better. Unfortunately, in their current forms, those railroad pages contain dozens of exactly identical duplicates. All for the sake of being absurdly granular when it comes to breaking down a couple of miles of track along an entire system.

Makes for one hell of a mess, to the point where I've completely given up on working the NY page because I refuse to deal with it.

 

[RadioDitch]

I wasn't condoning the naming, merely pointing out that 30 seconds of research would've revealed the origin of the two names. Instead, we have a chronic complainer tossing out accusations that "bogus info" is being put into the database. That was clearly a false accusation and could've been avoided by not jumping the gun.

As far as the larger issue of the railroad pages (both NJ and NY), I have an issue with the fact that the person maintaining those pages is thousands of miles away and has essentially turned those pages on their head over the past year. There was nothing wrong with the existing pages that were there for years, but someone came along and felt he knew better. Unfortunately, in their current forms, those railroad pages contain dozens of exactly identical duplicates. All for the sake of being absurdly granular when it comes to breaking down a couple of miles of track along an entire system.

Makes for one hell of a mess, to the point where I've completely given up on working the NY page because I refuse to deal with it.

See the thread I just put up. The New Jersey Railroads section of the database is now littered with typos, inaccurate information, and inconsistent formatting. Emphasis on the inaccuracies listed in category descriptions. It's a mess. RadioReference has always had higher standards than that. I gave myself a headache attempting to figure out how to even attempt to submit all the corrections since I came up with about a page and half of them in Microsoft Word. It's not just an issue with someone being thousands of miles away from the subject territories, it also doesn't seem like whoever is doing it is all that familiar with railroading.

 

[RadioDitch]

MASSIVE Corrections/Update

Just submitted a MASSIVE corrections/update submission for New Jersey Railroads. Call me a dick if you want, but if it's in the database, it should be correct.

Extensive corrections:

1. CSX Transportation
-a. River Subdivision
--i. Current description is "MP 1 to MP 19 (NJ/NY State Line)". Correct description should be "MP QR1.7 North Bergen, NJ to QR136.2 Selkirk, NY."

-b. Trenton Subdivision
--i. Current description is "MP 57 to MP 31 (NJ/PA State Line)". Correct description should be "MP QA57.3 Manville, NJ to QA0.0 Philadelphia, PA."

-----------------------------------

2. Norfolk Southern
-a. Lehigh Line
--i. Current description is "MP 36 to MP 76 (NJ/PA State Line)". Correct descripton should be "MP LE35.8 Manville, NJ to LB88.2 Allentown, PA."
--ii. 160.860 is listed as a Croxton Yard frequency. This should be deleted, it has nothing to do with Croxton Yard.

-b. Washington Secondary
--i. Current description "MP 58 (Bill) to MP 80 (Phillipsburg). The NJT Morristown Line connects at Bill and the Lehigh line connects at Phillipsburg" The correct description should be "MP WD58.0 Bill - Hackettstown, NJ to MP WD80.2 Phillupsburg, NJ. The Washington Secondary connects with the NJTR Morristown Line at Bill in Hackettstown, NJ and with the NS Lehigh Line at Phillipsburg, NJ"

-----------------------------------

3. New York, Susquehanna, and Western (name corrected to include proper comma)
-a. Southern Division
--i. Current description "New York, Susquehanna and Western Railway is a regional railroad that operates in New Jersey from the New York State Line (near Warwick New York) to North Bergen". Correct description should be "New York, Susquehanna, and Western Railway is a regional railroad that operates from North Bergen, NJ to Warwick, NY. Trains continue on into New York State via the NS Hudson Secondary between Warwick, NY and Campbell Hall, NY. At Campbell Hall, NY trains continue to Binghamton via the MNCW Southern Tier Line and CNYK Southern Tier Line. At Binghamton, NY trains reenter home rails for operations between Binghamton, NY to Utica, NY and Syracuse, NY"

------------------------------------

4. Cape May Seashore Lines
-a. Operations
--i. Description lacks proper punctuation.
--ii. 160.815 has a tag of "CMSL70 TOps". Correct tag should be "CMSL41 Ops".

------------------------------------

5. Conrail
-a. Lehigh Line
--i. Current description "MP 9.0 to MP 36". The correct description should be "MP 9.0 Newark, NJ to MP 35.8 Manville, NJ."

-b. Morrisville Line
--i. Current description "MP 0 to MP 5. Between MP 0 and MP 1.3 operations are on Amtrak". The correct description should be "MP0.0 Morrisville, PA to MP4.7 Morrisville, PA. Between MP 0.0 and MP 1.3 operations use AMTK Main Line NYP".

-c. Passaic & Harsimus Line
--i. Current description "MP 0 to MP 7.7". The correct description should be "MP 0.0 Jersey City, NJ to MP 7.7 Newark, NJ."

-d. Amboy Secondary
--i. Current description "MP 0.2 to MP 19". The correct description should be "MP 0.2 to MP 19.0."

-e. Chester Secondary
--i. Current description "MP 0 to MP 8.5". The correct description should be "MP 0.0 to MP 8.5."

-f. Garden State Secondary
--i. Current description "MP 1.4 to MP 14.8". The correct description should be "MP 1.4 Newark, NJ to MP 14.8 Perth Amboy, NJ. The Garden State Secondary connects with the NJTR North Jersey Coast Line at Perth Amboy, NJ."
--ii. 160.860 should be deleted, it has no affiliation with the Garden State Secondary.
--iii. 160.935 description should just be "Road". There is no such thing as South Dispatcher, the route is controlled by the South Jersey Train Dispatcher, which does not need to be mentioned when on the road channel per his new database format.

-g. Penns Grove Secondary
--i. Description "MP 8.8 to MP 30". Description should be "MP 8.8 to MP 30.0."

-h. Port Reading Secondary
--i. Description is "MP 0 to MP 16". Description should be "MP 0.0 Bound Brook, NJ to MP 16.0 Woodbridge, NJ."

-i. Vineland Secondary
--i. Description is "MP 0 to MP 34". Description should be "MP 0.0 to MP 34.0."

-j. Delair Branch
--i. Description is "MP78 to MP87". Description should be "MP 78.9 to MP 87.1."

-k. National Docks Branch
--i. Description is "MP 0 to MP 7.2". Description should be "MP 0 Jersey City, NJ to MP 7.2 Newark, NJ."

-l. Northern Branch
--i. Description is "MP 1.6 to MP 6.0". Description should be "MP 1.6 North Bergen, NJ to MP 6.0 Kearny, NJ."

------------------------------------

6. Morristown & Erie
-a. Operations
--i. Description is "Morristown Erie Railway is based in Morristown. It operates freight rail service in Morris County, and surrounding areas on the original Whippany Line between Morristown and Roseland, as well as the Morris County-owned Dover & Rockaway Branch, Chester Branch, and High Bridge Branch". -- CORRECT Description: ""Morristown and Erie Railway is based in Morristown, NJ. It operates freight rail service in Morris County and surrounding areas on the original Whippany Line between Morristown, NJ and Roseland, NJ."

The comments regarding the D&R Branch, Chester Branch, and High Bridge Branch are no longer true. Those services have been reassigned to a new railroad.

-----------------------------------

7. Hainesport Industrial Railroad
-a. Railroad is out of alphabetical order, as are most on the page.
-b. Typo. Add period at end of description.

-----------------------------------

8. Raritan Central Railway
-a. Typo. Add period at end of description.

-----------------------------------

9. SMS Rail Lines
-a. Typo. Add period at end of description.

-----------------------------------

10. Winchester and Western Railroad
-a. Typo. Add period at end of description.

-----------------------------------

11. Amtrak
-a. Systemwide
--i. Typo. Add period at end of description.

-b. Main Line
--i. Correct and legal route name through New Jersey is: "Main Line NYP".
--ii. Description currently is "MP 1.2 (NY/NJ State Line) to MP 57.7 (NJ/PA State Line)". The correct description should be "MP 0.0 Penn Station - New York, NY to MP 58.3 Division Point - Morrisville, PA."
--iii. Remove unneeded spaces between dispatcher territories which unnecessarily lengthen the page.
-iv. ADD Frequency: 160.515 Type: BM / Tone: CSQ / Tag: AMTK27 MOW / Description: Maintenance of Way (Production)

-----------------------------------

12. New Jersey Transit
-a. Atlantic City Line
--i. Description currently is "MP 0 (Philadelphia 30th Street Station) to MP 58 (Atlantic City Rail Terminal)". Correct description should be "MP B2.1 Philadelphia, PA to MP 58.0 Atlantic City Rail Terminal, NJ."
--ii. 161.400 description is wrong and redundant to description. Description should simply state "Road".

-b. Bergen County Line
--i. Description currently is "MP 4.3 ((Laurel/Main Line) to MP 19.0 (Ridgewood JCT Main Line)". Correct description is "MP 4.3 Laurel/Main Line - Secaucus, NJ to MP 19.0 Ridgewood Jct/Main Line - Ridgewood, NJ."
--ii. 161.400 description is wrong (route is Secaucus to Ridgewood) and redundant to description. Description should simply state "Road".

-c. Gladstone Line
--i. Descripton is "MP 20.1 (New Providence) to MP 42.2 (Gladstone). This branch line connects to the Morristown Line near Summit". Correct description should be "MP 20.1 Summit, NJ to MP 42.2 Gladstone, NJ. This branch line connects to the Morristown Line at Summit, NJ."

-d. Main Line
--i. Description is "MP 2.2 (West End/ME Line) to MP 31.3 (Suffern NY)". Correct description is "MP 2.2 West End/Morristown Line - Jersey City, NJ to MP 31.3 Division Post/MNCW Southern Tier Line - Suffern, New York."

-e. Meadowlands & Sports Line
--i. Route name is just "Sports Line".
--ii. Description is "MP 0 to MP 2". Correct description is "MP 0.0 to MP 2.1."

-f. Morristown Line
--i. Description is "MP 0 to MP 58. The Meadowlands Maintenance Complex is located between East End Yard MP 3.9 Sanfords Int to West End Yard MP 4.3 Meadows Int". Correct description is "MP 0.0 Hoboken, NJ to MP 58.0 Bill - Hackettstown, NJ. The Meadowlands Maintenance Complex is located between MP 3.9 Sanfords Interlocking and MP 4.3 Meadows Interlocking."

-g. North Jersey Coast Line
--i. Description is "MP 0.2 to MP 38.1". Correct Description is "MP E0.2 AMTK Main Line NYP -
Rahway, NJ to MP 38.1 Bay Head, NJ."

-h. Northeast Corridor Line
--i. No such line. Northeast Corridor service operates entirely over Amtrak and should not be listed as a separate route. Frequency should be deleted, and notes updated to "Northeast Corridor Service operates via Amtrak Main Line NYP from Penn Station New York, NY to Trenton, NJ. See Amtrak Main Line NYP."

-i. Pascack Valley Line
--i. Description is "MP 7.7 (Pascack Junction) to MP 31.3 (Woodbine Yard). This line provides service between Hoboken NJ and Spring Valley NY". Description should be "MP 7.7 Pasckack Jct. - Rutherford, NJ to MP 31.3 Woodbine Yard - Spring Valley, NY."
--ii. 161.400 description is redundant to description. Should simply state "Road".

-j. Princeton Line
--i. Description is "MP 0 (Princeton Junction) to MP 2.7 (Princeton Junction). This is a short branch that connects with the Northeast Corridor". Correct description is "MP 0.0 Princeton Jct. - West Windsor, NJ to MP 2.7 Princeton, NJ. This line provides service between the Northeast Corridor and Princeton University."

-k. Raritan Valley Line
--i. Description is "MP 15.0 (Newark) to MP 60.1 (High Bridge)". Correct description is "MP 15.0 Aldene - Roselle Park, NJ to MP 60.1 Division Post - Glen Gardner, NJ. Between Roselle Park, NJ and Hunter Interlocking in Newark, NJ trains operate over the Conrail Lehigh Line. Between Hunter Interlocking in Newark, NJ and Penn Station New York, NY trains operate over the Amtrak Main Line NYP."
--ii. 161.010 Delete frequency, Amtrak frequency, not part of the Raritan Valley Line.
--iii. 160.860 Delete frequency, Conrail frequency, not part of the Raritan Valley Line.

------------------------------------------

13. Belvidere Delaware River Railway
-a. Correct name to Belvidere and Delaware River Railway
-b. Operations
--i. Description is "The Belvidere and Delaware River Railway (part of the Black River Railroad System) located in Phillipsburg operates between Milford NJ and West Easton PA. Excursion/Tourist trains are also ran on this railroad". Correct description is "The Belvidere and Delaware River Railway, a subsidiary of the Black River & Western Railroad System, operates local freigh between Milford, NJ and Easton, PA. The New York, Susquehanna and Western Technical & Historical Society also operates excursion trains in cooperation with BDRV.

------------------------------------------

14. ADD Dover & Rockaway River Railroad
-a. ADD Description: "Dover & Rockaway River Railroad is a subsidiary of the Black River & Western Railroad that operates local freight service on the NJTR Morristown Line, as well as the Morris County owned Dover & Rockaway Branch, Chester Branch, and High Bridge Branch".
-b. ADD Operations
--i. ADD Frequency 160.950 Type: BM / Tone: CSQ / Tag: DRRV56 Road / Description: Road / FMN

------------------------------------------

15. ADD Black River & Western Railroad
-a. ADD Description: "Black River & Western Railroad is headquartered in Ringoes, NJ, operating local freight between Three Bridges, NJ and Ringoes, NJ. The associated non-profit Black River Historical Trust operates excursion trains between Flemington, NJ and Ringoes, NJ with work on-going to reopen the line south to Lambertville, NJ."
-b. ADD Operations
--i. ADD Frequency 161.085 Type: BM / Tone: CSQ / Tag: BRW65 Road / Description: Road / FMN

------------------------------------------

16. ADD Port Authority Trans-Hudson
-a. ADD Description: "PATH is an element of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and operates an third-rail electrified commuter service network serving Harrison, Hoboken, Jersey City, and Newark in New Jersey, extending beneath the Hudson River into Manhattan in New York City."
-b. ADD Operations
--i. ADD Frequency 160.470 Type: BM / Tone: CSQ / Tag: PATH24 Road / Description: Road / FMN
--ii. ADD Frequency 161.040 Type: BM / Tone: CSQ / Tag: PATH62 PD / Description: Rail to Police / FMN
--iii. ADD Frequency 161.460 Type: BM / Tone: CSQ / Tag: PATH90 MOW / Description: Maintenance and Emergency / FMN
--iv. ADD Frequency 161.535 Type: BM / Tone: CSQ / Tag: PATH95 Yard / Description: Car Department/Yard Operations

-------------------------------------------

17. ADD New York New Jersey Rail
-a. ADD Description: NYNJ operates terminal switching services and car float operations across Upper New York Bay between Jersey City, NJ and Brooklyn, NY.
--i. ADD Frequency: 160.590 Type: BM / Tone: CSQ / Tag: NYNJ32 Ops / Description: Rail Operations / FMN
--ii. ADD Frequency: 156.650 Type: BM / Tone: CSQ / Tag: NYNJ M13 / Description: Marine Car Float Operations / FMN

-------------------------------------------

18. ADD United States Navy: Naval Weapons Station Earle
-a. ADD Description: The U.S. Navy performs railway operations in support of operations at Naval Weapons Station Earle in Colts Neck, NJ.
-b. ADD Operations
--i. ADD Frequency 140.025 Type: BM / Tone: CSQ / Tag: USN Earle / Description: USN Naval Weapons Station Earle Rail Operations

 

[RadioDitch]

I'm gonna wait until all the above is completed before I submit more missing material. The above, unfortunately, is just the start to fixing what's missing or messed up. It was fine before the update...

 

[Analogrules]

Actually NJ transit's rail line from Trenton to NY Penn is indeed called NJ TRANSIT NORTHEAST CORRIDOR LINE. I am on that actual train right at this moment! Just look on NJ Transit's website. There is a separate line called Northeast Corridor. Amtrak SHARES THE SAME TRACK WITH NJ TRANSIT.

 

[Analogrules]

You are also totally wrong about Raritan Valley. I take it several days per week. The train conductors on that line most certainly use 160.860 between Cranford and just past Union Station. (Yes, it is a Conrail frequency but shared by Raritan Valley along that short stretch) Then, they switch frequency to the shared 161.010 NE Corridor frequency on the Newark Penn approach.

 

[Analogrules]

One more thing. 161.040 PATH PD IS DEPRECATED. ALL THEIR PD IS ON THE EDACS SYSTEM NOW.

 

[elias1988]

Are we sure Earle is still using this frequency? They have TGs on the 14C trunked system that they use daily.

18. ADD United States Navy: Naval Weapons Station Earle
-a. ADD Description: The U.S. Navy performs railway operations in support of operations at Naval Weapons Station Earle in Colts Neck, NJ.
-b. ADD Operations
--i. ADD Frequency 140.025 Type: BM / Tone: CSQ / Tag: USN Earle / Description: USN Naval Weapons Station Earle Rail Operations

 

[W2SJW]

OK, first batch done!

You guys are going to have to live with some of the category names, as the DB absolutely abhors the ampersand (&) and will not allow it in category & sub-category titles...

 

[Analogrules]

W2SJW, I just saw the updates and see what you did in the descriptions, so you wouldn't be redundant. I get it and have no problem with it now, Except nowhere on Amtrak's website calls the track between Washington DC and NYC "Main Line". The correct name for it (as Amtrak calls it) is the Acela Line. I have also heard it called Northeast Corridor in the past, but they probably updated the name to Acela Express, so it won't be confused with the NJ Transit line called Northeast Corridor. I would change the wording to Acela Express, instead of Main Line.

https://www.amtrak.com/northeast-train-routes?stop_mobi=yes

 

[GTR8000]

Northeast Corridor is the name for the stretch of rail between Boston and D.C.

"Acela Express" is the name of a train that travels the Northeast Corridor, not the name of the route itself. There are trains other than the Acela that use the Northeast Corridor tracks.

Current references to the Northeast Corridor can be found on the Amtrak website.

 

[Analogrules]

Ok, but it is still NOT called Main Line as the db indicates.

 

[slapshot0017]

Wow Radioditch thats an amazing addition! That is such solid information!

N2ZGE please do everyone a favor and stop trying to submit information cause you are way off on almost everything you say...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Analogrules]

What exactly am I way off from?? It is a fact that no where around here does AMTRAK refer to their track or service around here as "Main Line". The ONLY main line that runs in this area is NJ Transit's Main Bergen Line in Bergen County.

 

[mikea7531]

See attached, as taken from the employee time table and what it's referred as on the radio.....