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New Motorola HTs for LAPD

William2910

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Didn't they get the big batteries to cover their 12 hour shifts? I remember reading that somewhere. I know there are 3x12s and 4x10 schedules among others.
Most get the high capacity extended batteries.

Though some stick to the smaller battery.

It is easier to shove one in your gear pocket when it is smaller for fire but draw back is change out will be sooner specially if you TX a lot.

Some smaller shorter police prefer the short one, mainly the small female officers where i am.

I dont recall the capacity as I haven't bothered to pull mine out in while.
 

William2910

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Eesh, they're using the massive hi-cap batteries. My 8000 is definitely power hungry, so I know why they're using the big ones. I bet the older guys are having flashbacks to the Astro Saber days haha.

LAFD received APX8000HXE radios recently as well.

Obligatory picture of my 8000 next to my SDS100. The 8000 is physically smaller than the SDS.

Nice but they should have opted in for the larger knobs like we had. They'll figure that one out after wearing wet gloves.
 

jjbond

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Well LAPD has always gone with Motorola and the whole department had XTS5000 portables. So it probably was a no brainer to stay brand loyal and go with a quad band for growth down the road.
Yup, they've always been chummy, even to the point of soliciting donations from taxpayers to send staff to Motorola conferences.

http://www.lapdpolicecom.lacity.org/110414/BPC_14-0386.pdf

And Motorola get a lot more money from the LA taxpayers than from radios, a couple examples of many below

http://www.lapdpolicecom.lacity.org/052317/BPC_17-0208.pdf

http://www.lapdpolicecom.lacity.org/110414/BPC_14-0392.pdf

http://www.lapdpolicecom.lacity.org/121013/BPC_13-0422.pdf

http://www.lapdpolicecom.lacity.org/101111/BPC_11-0399.pdf

Here's a good boolean search that will return some interesting reading.

motorola site:lapdpolicecom.lacity.org - Google Search
 
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pittsboro in / mesa az
When our county added 2 tower sites we paid for a 10 year service agreement. Not long after the warranty expired we got a bill for an annual maintenance fee. Our PSAP director sent them a letter reminding them we had prepaid, we never heard back.

The city of Phoenix bid against Motorola and won the service contract for their system.
JJbond, any idea if other govt entities have done this?
 

APX7500X2

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So Harris admittedly had a defect and it's still Motorola's fault? Got it.
It was just a programming issue with the harris but since they did it wrong they lost, its all about the correct programming on the SDR radios
 

jjbond

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I've been around long enough to remember thinking programming the Radius R100 repeater was a PITA, haven't done anything past a Jedi in Motorola world recently.
Apparently you've not been around long enough to have had to use the Motorola Suitcase programmer and chips ;) ..... Syntors, ect.... those were the days...whew.
 
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jjbond

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When our county added 2 tower sites we paid for a 10 year service agreement. Not long after the warranty expired we got a bill for an annual maintenance fee. Our PSAP director sent them a letter reminding them we had prepaid, we never heard back.

The city of Phoenix bid against Motorola and won the service contract for their system.
JJbond, any idea if other govt entities have done this?
Not that I know of..... good on Phoenix, well done. If you look at some of the other reports in that boolean search link I provided, you'll see LA getting bent over the couch on maintenance agreements as well.
 

jjbond

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It was just a programming issue with the harris but since they did it wrong they lost, its all about the correct programming on the SDR radios
Raytheon and it's partner Harris WON the bid originally, then Motorola threatened to sue like any poor loser does when they lose a competition or sports and a judge cancelled the bidding. Motorola went away and came back with their bid half what it was before, now that they knew was Raytheon/Harris had bid.... it had nothing to do with CPS programming of emergency buttons, despite what LAPD says.

– While a joint authority representing Los Angeles County and more than 80 cities reviewed bids in 2011 for twin public-safety radio and broadband networks, Motorola added William Bratton, a former Los Angeles police chief and currently the New York police commissioner , to a lucrative post on its corporate board. A team led by Raytheon Corp. won the bidding, but Motorola threatened a suit, and a county lawyer urged nullifying the award because it might violate an arcane state law. During two more rounds of bidding, Motorola slashed its prices and ultimately won both contracts, worth a half-billion dollars.

Read more here: Faced with a tech tsunami, Motorola fights to preserve cop-com franchise

Raytheon/Harris were the better/more professional company in this situation, they just walked away, didn't dispute it... Here's another article about it...

How Motorola bested Raytheon and captured L.A. County’s emergency radio contract

I highly doubt they'd have gotten those 8000's at that price were it not for this scam they pulled and I'm sure they're making that money up on the back end in maintenaance on the many other bids they have for cameras, alarms etc for LA County.
 
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jjbond

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If you want another example of the relationship between Motorola and LA when it comes to doing whatever they need to get the deal, read the below article, about them doing a backdoor donation deal to get secret squirrel surveillance gear. I noticed several documents with these style "donations" on that boolean search earlier provided.... LAPD, using dark money, very nice, so much for accountability and transparency to the tax payers.

  • The LAPD could have used a small portion of its multibillion-dollar annual budget to purchase the software, but that would have meant going through a year-long process requiring public meetings, approval from the City Council, and, in some cases, competitive bidding. There was a quicker, quieter way to get the software: as a gift from the Los Angeles Police Foundation, a private charity. In November 2007, at the behest of then Police Chief William Bratton, the foundation approached Target Corp., which contributed $200,000 to buy the software, said the foundation's executive director, Cecilia Glassman, in an interview. Then the foundation donated it to the police department
Link: Private donors supply spy gear to cops

Below statements are from a couple documents on their site.
  • In 2012, the Department received approximately $1.1 million in cash donations for a variety of law enforcement purposes. During this economic downturn, these donations have proved critical in that they have funded some of the Department's law enforcement enhancement projects that were not provided for in our General Fund budget.
  • The purpose of this donation is to fund the purchase and installation of a surveillance camera at Lafayette Park as part of the Wilshire Center-Koreatown Camera Surveillance Project. The project complied with the City of Los Angeles bid/ RFP process in obtaining contractors. The project was awarded to Motorola Solutions. The funds needed for the camera at Lafayette Park were donated by HOLA and have been deposited with Motorola Solutions. The money was donated specifically to implement the surveillance camera project at Lafayette Park.

This one is especially cute, they found a donation of $4,800 to pay for travel expenses so they could go back to Motorola's, drink the kool-aid some more and find out about new stuff they couldn't afford to purchase.

http://www.lapdpolicecom.lacity.org/110414/BPC_14-0386.pdf


2019-05-04_13-02-46.jpg
 
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KevinC

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Somewhere other than home :(
If you want another example of the relationship between Motorola and LA when it comes to doing whatever they need to get the deal, read the below article, about them doing a backdoor donation deal to get secret squirrel surveillance gear. I noticed several documents with these style "donations" on that boolean search earlier provided.... LAPD, using dark money, very nice, so much for accountability and transparency to the tax payers.

The LAPD could have used a small portion of its multibillion-dollar annual budget to purchase the software, but that would have meant going through a year-long process requiring public meetings, approval from the City Council, and, in some cases, competitive bidding.

There was a quicker, quieter way to get the software: as a gift from the Los Angeles Police Foundation, a private charity. In November 2007, at the behest of then Police Chief William Bratton, the foundation approached Target Corp., which contributed $200,000 to buy the software, said the foundation's executive director, Cecilia Glassman, in an interview. Then the foundation donated it to the police department.

Private donors supply spy gear to cops
Funny that the "Stingray" made by Harris is also mentioned in this same article.

It also mentions that Raytheon made "donations" as well. Hmm...

"As Motorola and Raytheon vied for a $600 million contract to provide the regional emergency communications system used by the LAPD, each company made generous donations to the police foundation."

So it's not just big bad Motorola doing these things I guess.
 

prcguy

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I wonder what the friendly ham price is on a used 8000 these days? I had a Thales Liberty briefly, got it for about $100 off Ebay but there are no accys or batts available. At some point the 8000 might be in the same boat.

On the LAPD and Stingray, I was standing in front of a big LAPD trailer used for communications, hostage negations, etc. The LAPD guy in charge of it was telling us how they can intercept the phone of the bad guy and find his phone number, his contact list and a bunch of other stuff covertly. I chimed in and asked if they had a Harris Stingray in the trailer and they guy went quiet for awhile then changed the subject.
 

jjbond

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They're RAKING in the donations, these numbers are bigger than some complete departments...

In 2011, the Department received approximately $1.2 million in cash and in-kind donations for a variety of law enforcement purposes. During this economic downturn, these donations have proved critical in that they have funded some of the Department’s law enforcement enhancement projects that were not provided for in our General Fund budget. Significant 2011 donations include funding for:
• Youth diversion programs such as the LAPD Cadet Posts (uniforms, training, equipment, and scholarships)
• Law enforcement enhancement technology equipment and software (camcorders, Wi-Fi connections, interoperable radios
and cellphones, surveillance cameras, digital voice recorders, laptop computers, GPS systems, etc.)
• Vehicles to be used for collaborative enforcement taskforces
• Travel and specialty training expenses
• A variety of equipment and supplies (ammunition, kit room equipment, storage containers, etc.)
It should be noted that the total amount of donations in 2011 as compared to 2010 are about half of the amount. This is due primarily to the spike in donation for 2010 for DNA testing. Since the backlog has been eliminated, the need for these donations has also been eliminated.
 

jjbond

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So it's not just big bad Motorola doing these things I guess.
They're all corrupt, I just wish Motorola would let everyone else get a chance at the scam now and then, if radios were competitively priced, departments could put the money saved towards staffing or other needs, or we could afford to own one for hobby use... look at this: $5,200 in America, less than $1,000 in the UK.

I've attached the complete report...

2019-05-04_13-31-09.jpg
 

Attachments

jjbond

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Yes, Daryl's blog is VERY informative, thank you for sharing it with me yesterday....
 

jjbond

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On the LAPD and Stingray, I was standing in front of a big LAPD trailer used for communications, hostage negations, etc. The LAPD guy in charge of it was telling us how they can intercept the phone of the bad guy and find his phone number, his contact list and a bunch of other stuff covertly. I chimed in and asked if they had a Harris Stingray in the trailer and they guy went quiet for awhile then changed the subject.
Funny you should mention that, it appears they use back door dark non budgeted funds for all sort of those "we don't want the public or the ACLU knowing about it" purchases.

  • In Los Angeles, foundation money has been used to buy hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of license plate readers, which were the subject of a civil-rights lawsuit filed against the region's law enforcement agencies by the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California and the Electronic Frontier Foundation. (A judge rejected the groups' claims earlier this year.)
  • Private funds also have been used to upgrade "Stingray" devices, which have triggered debate in numerous jurisdictions because they vacuum up records of cellphone metadata, calls, text messages and data transfers over a half-mile radius.
Private donors supply spy gear to cops
 

ChrisE_STB

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Woodland Hills CA
They're all corrupt, I just wish Motorola would let everyone else get a chance at the scam now and then, if radios were competitively priced, departments could put the money saved towards staffing or other needs, or we could afford to own one for hobby use... look at this: $5,200 in America, less than $1,000 in the UK.

I've attached the complete report...

View attachment 70933
These are two completely different radios, you can not compare a APX8000 to a MPT Terta radio. That is like putting a APX8000 up against an XPR7550.
 
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pittsboro in / mesa az
While the features of the top of the line APX may exceed a Tetra radio the functionality isn't much different. When I was a deputy our office was on low band, I had to pull the antenna out of the radio like I did with my CB walkie talkie when I was 6, but I still talked to dispatch like $5,000+ radios do.

Radios have too many smarts in them for the use they get. One of my students said his cops had a hard time finding any channel outside their normal dispatch and car to car use, except for the special events zone. 'That's where they're on overtime'.

I think a zone with 'patch 1' to 'patch 16' would work, let the interoperability interconnection happen at the site instead of loading dozens / hundreds of channels / TGs in a 1024 channel radio. I remember dynamic regrouping in the early trunking days, I don't recall ever hearing it being used.

(According to Ross Merlin with DHS, 'interoperability' was first used in the Titanic after action report)

I'll leave the topic of Tetra vs P-25 spectrum efficiency for a different day.
 
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