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Newbie Cable Question here

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Scott2373

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Ok, I'm a total newbie when it comes to "other than stock telescopic antenna" scanning. Other than that I've been scanning for over 20 years. I've just now gained an interest in installing a Discone in my attic, however I have questions regarding the ohm ratings of cable. I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to use LMR-400 cable with a run of about 25 feet, but no more than 30. My question is, what is the difference between 50 ohm and 75 ohm cable. My limited electrical knowlege tells me that ohms are a measure of resistance, however in an antenna application, wouldn't you want as much signal with as little resistance as possible? Other than that, is the LMR-400 a good choice for this short of a run, and do they make compresion connectors for it (similar to the ones used in satellite applications for RG-6)? Thank you all in advance!
 

fineshot1

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Ok, I'm a total newbie when it comes to "other than stock telescopic antenna" scanning. Other than that I've been scanning for over 20 years. I've just now gained an interest in installing a Discone in my attic, however I have questions regarding the ohm ratings of cable. I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to use LMR-400 cable with a run of about 25 feet, but no more than 30. My question is, what is the difference between 50 ohm and 75 ohm cable. My limited electrical knowlege tells me that ohms are a measure of resistance, however in an antenna application, wouldn't you want as much signal with as little resistance as possible? Other than that, is the LMR-400 a good choice for this short of a run, and do they make compresion connectors for it (similar to the ones used in satellite applications for RG-6)? Thank you all in advance!

Scott - the 50 ohm and 75 ohm cable figure is a measurement in impedance - not resistance.
See the wikipedia definition below. For your purposes LMR400 is probably overkill for that
short of a run. You could probably make due just fine with RG6 which is much cheaper and
easier to work with. RG6 is 75 ohm impedance cable and with that short of a run will not make
a big difference with one caveat - this would be for receive only with 75 ohm cable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance
 

khoelldobler

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Greetings, most scanner antennas are rated at 50 ohms, and a good quality coax is most often available in 50 ohms... its a pretty good match. The discone antenna you will be installing is in the same family as the 1/4 wave antenna which was designed to perform best for the wide frequency bandwidth. You should most likely experience 0 db of gain with a discone antenna and it will operate best between the frequencies of 120 mhz through the 1300 mhz range. If the discone you have has an additional single vertical whip antenna attatched to the top of it, it should pull in signals from around 30 mhz up to 1300 mhz. I feel the discone is the best all around all band scanner antenna for the money.

One thing that you have to remember is, there is NO substitute for antenna hieght. I dont suggest mounting a discone or any antenna under the roof, or in an attic, unless you are trying to conceal or hide the antenna from the nieghbors. The roof acts as an obstacle. For the same reason you wouldnt want to mount your new antenna up in a tree secured to some thick - heavy limbs or branches. Its in my opinion to mount the antenna on a sturdy grounded mast, approx 10 to 15 feet above the peak of the roof. Please note that the antenna is designed to work best in an opening, free of obstacles. The higher the better when it comes to line of sight for best reception, but to pull in weak signals, you would have to go up as much as 100 or even 500 feet for some distant line of sight signals. Just be sure to clear houses on the block, and take note of the hieght of close proximity trees. Raising the antenna up on a mast any higher than 20 feet above your roofline is only going to yield you trivial added reception with-in your receiving range, and prove to become a dangerous installation.

Back to the 50 ohms coax... usually the average scannist says he gets by with radio shack cheap coax. That might work good for him if he has an extremely short run, as if run out of his bedroom window and to the antenna mounted 6 feet away to his fire escape. RG8 U or Belden 9913 is really good stuff. The 9913 is more expensive, but not too bad if you require a run of about 30 to 50 feet. I use the Times Microwave LMR-400 coax myself, its real thick in diameter, and sometimes difficult to run, but its worth the price to me to utilize a quality coax with quality shielding as not to develope a signal loss. If you do go this route, LMR-400, have it custom made (hand-made) by a professional. This will ensure that the ends, (connectors) are properly installed, with flex shielding shrink to help eliminate stress, and that you try to obtain the true silver connectors. Thats the route I took, and my connectors never let me down. A PL-259 connector at both ends should work fine, with a BNC adapter on the end to mate up to the scanner... if the scanner has a BNC connector that is. RR has teamed up with Scannermaster, and Scannermaster could be a great source for the coax at competitive pricing. Remember, this reply to you and anyone who reads it is basically just my own opinion, and I have sent you this reply as a helpful hint on what has worked for me the best in the past. Be careful when installing any antennas, masts, and coax. I do believe that the thick diameter of LMR-400 coax can accept compression fittings, and regarding differences between 50 and 75 ohms, it shouldnt hamper your particular installation... I would just go with matching the same ohms rating of the coax that you choose to the ohms rating on your discone ( I believe it to be 50 and your scanner is probably rated at 50 ) if it tells you what its rated at in the owners manual in the specs. Happy monitoring, your friend Kevin.
 
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Scott2373

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Thank you khoelldoble, great info! I was considering downgrading to the RG-6 Quad since I'm using this same cable to run my HDTV antenna as well. My antenna is going in the attic because I simply don't have the desire or means to climb up onto my roof. Not to mention, my roof is only about 2 months old and I don't feel like drilling any holes into it and we're selling the house soon anyway. I just want a little better reception to pick up some freqs I've never heard in my area, or maybe pick up the Fire/EMS/Police of the next town over. Thanks again!
 

khoelldobler

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I also tried to read the wiki regarding the impedance thing... currently, it seems to be over my head too, but I can appreciate it.

In a hypothetical ideal coaxial cable the electromagnetic field carrying the signal exists only in the space between the inner and outer conductors. Practical, good quality cables achieve this objective to a high degree. A quality – shielded coaxial cable provides protection of signals from external electromagnetic interference, and effectively guides signals with low emission along the length of the cable.

The ohm is defined as the electric resistance between two points of a conductor when a constant potential difference of 1 volt, applied to these points, produces in the conductor a current of 1 ampere, the conductor not being the seat of any electromotive force.
Resistance is a scalar quantity.

Impedance is a 2-dimensional vector which has resistance as the magnitude and phase as the other dimension of the vector.

Devices like capacitors and inductors can change the phase of voltages and currents relative to the source driving the voltage or current, so they have impedance, rather than simple resistance.

It's kind of like "speed" and "velocity". Speed is the scalar magnitude component of a velocity vector, but you also need to know which way you are speeding off to.
Resistance is a concept used for DC (direct currents) whereas impedance is the AC (alternating current) equivalent.

I hope this helped, your friend Kevin.
 

khoelldobler

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Hi Scott2373, always glad to help. maybe you can temporarily clamp the antenna to a rain gutter on one corner of the house instead of permanently mounting it to the roof. At least it would be outside, and sort-of grounded. Best of luck to you, Kevin.
 

jdebona

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Impedance is a 2-dimensional vector which has resistance as the magnitude and phase as the other dimension of the vector.

Devices like capacitors and inductors can change the phase of voltages and currents relative to the source driving the voltage or current, so they have impedance, rather than simple resistance.

It's kind of like "speed" and "velocity". Speed is the scalar magnitude component of a velocity vector, but you also need to know which way you are speeding off to.
Resistance is a concept used for DC (direct currents) whereas impedance is the AC (alternating current) equivalent.

I hope this helped, your friend Kevin.



WAAAAAY better. Thanks, guys. Sorry to hijack the thread. You may resume normal traffic. :)
 
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