Not sure if that's completely accurate based on some fires I was on last summer. Maybe something's changed since then though. I dunno.
Oops! It's not completely accurate because it is not the case at all. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I said that cloning doesn't happen at incidents much anymore. The tactical and command channel combination in use on an incident may be available in groups in a radio but each might be in different groups. Radios need to be programmed according to the comm plan so resources can then start referring to the channels as listed in the plan. For example a fire may have a command frequency for the western portion and another for the east. A division sup may be called by another with "division alpha, division echo, switch to channel 2," where channels 1 and 2 are the two command frequencies in use on the incident.
The preprogrammed groups with NIFC frequencies are used when arriving resources are given a direct assignment to a location on the fire without stopping by the command post first. After being relieved they get their radios cloned at the comm unit on their off shift time. Resources that have to use frequencies from different groups in their radios on a hot assignment usually have a person that can program the two into their blank groups quickly and clone other radios as necessary. Division sups need to switch from tac to command frequently and in my experience almost every one of them had the equipment and knowledge to do it in a short period of time. Sometimes that initial assignment can last 36 hours making the availability of the NIFC channels in a radio critical.
What I meant to communicate is that the need for hundreds of cache radios given to each arriving resource is no longer critical. In the days of the crystal radios a cache radio had to be issued to each user when they arrived, even for USFS/BLM/NPS/USFWS units as their home radio didn't have more than local unit channels in them. Some of the first crystal radios that had the additional channels were from southern California as a result of the FIRESCOPE program.
A poster above thought that a given combination of frequency and tone required one channel. The first King I was assigned in the mid 80's was capable of independent tone selection for each channel so the need for separate channels has never been a limiting factor, at least so after crystals were no longer used. Some local units have their radios programmed with a channel for each repeater, so the same frequency combination is used over and over each with a different tone. That may create the impression that each combination of tone and frequency needs a separate channel. I'm not sure why some units choose to configure radios like this as it takes up less memory to use the frequency combination once and allow the user to select the necessary tone. I wonder if the techs think the field units can't figure out how to do that or what, but the radio is not a limiting factor. By the way, the use of different tones on the input and outputs of a repeater pair is easily programmed into a King, however such a situation, especially on an incident is highly unlikely.
zerg901 said:
Mike G_D - I believe you are correct. I am pretty sure that the NIRSC radios are the deployable repeaters that are brought in on the largest wildfires. They are typically shipped via ?air freight from the big warehouse in Boise. ("NIFC cache" is another common name for the NIRSC)
From the document -
Page 5 - Group 3 is the VHF FM air freqs
Page 16 - Log 1 to Log 7 are the UHF repeater pairs (for use at the fire camp and maybe for use linking the VHF repeaters)
Page 17 - Command 1 to Command 6 are the deployable VHF repeater channel names
Page 20 - only scan 3 channels so batteries are not exhausted
Many of the newer radios might have a blank zone/group/bank so that they can be flashed when arriving at a major wildfire.
If there are 6 Command channels available west of the Mississippi River, with 12 unique freqs, than there is no need to put a tone (PL) on anything unless there are more than 6 major fires in progress in 1 area. (this is just a general conceptual statement to help explain the situation)
Generally speaking - normal fires are handled on local channels. The largest fires require extensive "mutual aid" (out of area resources). The "out of area" units typically will not have the correct freqs programmed in their radios. These are the people that need to be flashed when they arrive at a fire. You can Google for "Incident Communications Plan" to see a typical flash load. It is typically 16 channels. Ch16 is typically 168.625. Ch 1 2 3 seem to be typically 168.05 168.10 168.20 IIRC. Then 1 or 2 command (deployable) repeaters are added. And a couple of local repeaters. And maybe 154.28. Before you know it, you have 16 channels to use in the flash load
There is more than one location where NIFC caches are kept. I don't remember those locations but they might be at one of the four or so major incident caches stationed in different areas of the west. I know that one of these locations is at the Prescott Fire Center in Arizona.
Remember that the group assignments shown in the document are for cache radios only and local radios are configured differently.
A set of UHF frequencies for repeater use and for simplex camp use are available and are mutually exclusive and are also so with the set of UHF frequencies used to link repeaters, which is further subdivided into those used to link repeaters and those used to link aviation frequencies. I listed all of these in the wiki, accessible from the database page for the NIFC system, listed under the "nationwide frequency" tab on the first page of the database.
There are 12 command frequency pairs in use. I've done a lot of searching and printing of manuals, maps and local channel plans to include in my own travel notebooks in the last two weeks. Somewhere is an official document listing those 12. Some of the 12 are from the VHF Incident Response frequencies in the national interoperability plan. These frequencies have been used on wildland fire incidents for nearly 10 years.
When I was assigned to large fires I didn't like scanning additional channels at all. I already had my hands full keeping track of 20 people, the fire, aircraft overhead and adjacent resources so I just kept mine on the tactical channel all the time. A fire in the mop up stage can get very monotonous so I would scan tactical, command and the local unit net just to keep me awake, but that is the only time I scanned. Battery life was not really a problem for me as I always had 9 alkali batteries in my line pack and scanning in slow times did not eat up much storage. It is not the scanning that eats up the power, it is the increased amount of reception time that results. Division supervisors have to keep track of traffic on both the division tac and the incident command at the same time. They need to scan both, plus keep track of the fire, the resources in their division and be available for the ops chief and other ops people all at the same time. The division sup is right at the point where the rubber meets the road in a way that no other position really does. The highest op position I was qualified for was "Strike Team Leader - Crew" trainee. It is hard for me to imagine how a division supervisor handles the multiple tasks of the position. My trainee assignments with division sups were all on fires where the rate of spread had been stopped or was very slow, so I never worked with a division sup on a hot situation. I was qualified as a Type IV and V IC but an entire incident of that type is not nearly as complex as one division on a Type I or II fire.
There is a need for toning, don't second guess the direction the NIFC comm division has given. In southern California and Arizona the problem of illegal frequency use in Mexico has been an issue since the NIFC frequencies have been in use, a time period I can't pin down, but I first heard it in the late 70's or early 80's. The expression in southern California used during such interference was "repeat, the Julios stepped on you." This expression may not be favored or tolerated now, but that is what I used to hear. Away from those border areas the electronic environment has become increasingly noisy and tones are needed to deal with it. Even with high standard commercial mobile radios in place I used to pick up interference when I passed certain businesses and at almost every gas pump. The computers used in camp mess with handhelds also. The interference of one incident with another is one thing, but this other noise is the bigger issue. Part 15 regulations are not effective.
Channel 16 is not used for Air Guard in every local radio in the country. That practice seems more prevalent outside California to me. Those in California are usually filled with primary nets of adjacent federal units or Cal Fire nets and tacs. Automatic interagency response is the rule and not the exception on portions of half or more of the 18 National Forests in California. Mutual aid frequencies are not used for these initial attacks as much as the local nets and tacs of the agencies involved. You are correct that there are a lot of combinations of frequencies in use on incidents.
Standard NIFC cache frequencies might not be used on an incident. Unique, one time uses of frequencies allocated for other agencies that are currently not in use in a given area may be employed if that is what the NIFC comm unit duty officer deems necessary. This is another reason radios have to be cloned at incidents as these frequencies will not be in any radios of the wildland fire management agencies.
I've been on more than a few very large and/or complex incidents where the entire 16 channels not filled. I've been on fires where 2-3 command repeaters were used, each on a different frequency, but tied together on one net using UHF link frequencies. This was due to topography and/or size of the incident. Then the fire may have multiple branches with a tactical assigned to each division that can only be reused if distance or topography allows. If the fire has a large structure protection group then the now named V Fire 21-26 tacticals will be mixed in. More than one air to ground might be used. Even in those situations the use of more than 14 channels is not all that frequent, at least it is outside my experience.
