NIFC National Air to Ground Channels

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QDP2012

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Thank you Exsmokey

I will keep the Wiki pages as current as I can with what I have and leave the database for others.

Thank you for your Wiki submissions, and for being willing to keep them current. I appreciate it!

Best Regards,
 

SCPD

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'

There is a site called "wildlife.com" and members there commented that when posting information about a new initial attack on a fire it was hard to space everything in the format the site was using.

That site should be "wildlandfire.com"
 

SCPD

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I began submitting information about federal land management agencies and state and local agencies back in the late 70's when "Police Call" started publishing editions that covered the entire nation in 9 volumes. Gene "Hughes" published the names of frequent contributors (with our permission) and sent us a free set of the volumes each year. He would write us to determine how we got the information and he accepted our suggestions. He even invited me to meet him when I visited the area he lived in. We spent some good days together.

On this site I've received insults on threads from database administrators and a couple of infractions for my suggestions to improve the database. Gene "Hughes" vs. Radio Reference, not even close.
 

SCPD

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Thank you for your Wiki submissions, and for being willing to keep them current. I appreciate it!

Best Regards,

You are welcome. Not very many people read the wiki pages anyway, but thanks just the same.

Unfortunately, I've found it necessary to remove my work.

Since posting my frustrations I've received more PM's from others who are frustrated about database submissions and who have stopped submitting due to similar experiences.
 
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mikewazowski

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On this site I've received insults on threads from database administrators and a couple of infractions for my suggestions to improve the database. Gene "Hughes" vs. Radio Reference, not even close.

Can you provide a little more information on these infractions you've received for your suggestions? We don't have any such rule and I'd like to make sure the Moderators are not making up rules.

Your infraction history only shows two warnings. One in 2009 for off-topic comments and another in February of this year for posting in the wrong forum. I'm unable to find anything related to suggestions to improve the database.
 

QDP2012

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Unfortunately, I've found it necessary to remove my work.
  • I hope you will reconsider this perspective, because your work is both valuable and valued, even if you choose to no longer maintain it. Perhaps someone else is able and willing to help maintain it, or to help you maintain it.

  • Also, on a more technical point, unless I am mistaken, anything that you and I (or anyone else) contribute to the Wiki automatically becomes property of RadioReference, and not our own property. So, if you blank the pages that you were maintaining, then someone else can choose to restore the pages' content if they wish, because we all have the same privileges in the Wiki.

    The only way to truly get rid of the pages' content is to ask the Wiki Admin to delete the pages, which normally won't be approved unless the specified-content violates RR policy, etc.
---
(Please don't take the following suggestion in the wrong way. It is intended in the best spirit for your success as well as the continued value of the WIki.)

Sometimes, it can be very easy, especially in hobby activities, to get upset when others don't accept the results of our best efforts to improve the hobby, and then to get angry/discouraged and to simply walk away if for no other reason than to avoid frustration and people who seem contrary to one's efforts.

Even though your patience with certain DBAs is running a bit thin right now,
  • Please consider taking the time to discuss the whole situation with Mr. Oxlong via Private Message or email, Your conversation could help solve some not-yet-officially-recognized administrative issues, which when solved could make RadioReference better for everyone, and at the same time restore to you some of the fun of your radio/scanner hobby.

  • Please also consider taking an appropriate break away from the computer and doing something else that you enjoy just to give a little time for emotions to subside on your side and on the side of any DBA(s) that might be involved directly or indirectly.

  • Also, (and I have no clue what other PMs you have received from others who complain about the DBAs), please don't let those PMs improperly fan the flames of anger etc. Even if they have merit, please let Mr. Oxlong do his job as Global DBA / Forums Manager to investigate and where possible bring about a good resolution.
Again, I encourage you to work privately with Mr. Oxlong to fully explain to him the situation and to work with him to find the best solution. I hate to see situations where people like yourself feel like they need to step away from a hobby, or a hobby-community, like this one because of some disagreements with a handful of people.

Thanks for your consideration and for your contributions,
 
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mikewazowski

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I'd be happy to discuss issues with PMs or the Forums.

Database issues should be directed to wa8pyr and Wiki issues should be directed to w9bu.
 

nd5y

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Here is one database issue. Look at U.S. Government Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference.

Scroll down to MAFFS.

It shows four amater radio frequencies:
7.22500 MAFFS-LVHF MAFFS AM Fire-Tac
147.18000 MAFFS - A MAFFS FM Fire-Tac
147.45000 MAFFS - B MAFFS FM Fire-Tac
448.45000 MAFFS -C MAFFS FM Fire-Tac

Looks like total BS to me. I seriously dobut the AZ Air National Guard uses ham radio HF, repeaters or 2m simplex frequencies.
Since when is 40 meters LVHF? Is that Low VHF or what? and AM mode?
Is this deliberate propaganda/disinformation?
Did some moron hear hams talking about MAFFS aircraft and not know the difference and submit it?
Why did a db admin not reject it or at least question it?

There are other examples of crap like this that make the database a joke in some cases.

Why is Exsmokeys data from official documents/sources not good enough to be included in the database but the NIFOG is?
Has anybody really confirmed all the low band and 700 MHz stuff in the NIFOG?

Why does each ARTCC page have the dump of FAA records which are known to be inaccurate?
 

stmills

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I am one of the members who reached out to Exsmokey about having DBA issuses. I stopped submitting to the DB here after my confirmed data was replaced by incorrect info and the DBA denied making the changes even when his name was attached to the changes. After a long exchange I decided to stop submitting me data and now run my own site where I have control of the data. Like Exsmokey my data was always vetted and confirmed using my sources from years in Public safety and radio communication. Like Exsmokey when I spoke out about my issues I received PM's from others who also had stopped submitting because of DBA issues. There seems to be a culture with the DBAs to disrespect those of us with extensive knowledge of the radio systems that is gained from working with them not just listening.
 

mikewazowski

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Gentlemen, have you reached out to the Database Manager about this?

If you feel you're not getting results from a certain DB Admin or you're being mistreated, by all means escalate it.

Let's try and make the database better rather than complaining in a thread about it.
 

stmills

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Mike,
As far as I am concerned the DBA's are speaking for RR. When an Issuse is brought up and the DBAs ignore it RR is ignoring the issue. When clear out of the blue DBA posts that they see nothing in the system having been changed that I state was changed - RR is stating I am not being truthful. When I review the changes and it was entered by the Exact DBA who posted the changes I stated where made never took place, the DBA as the Voice of RR is being straight out dishonest and attempting to discredit me as a valid contributor. The DBA then stated he had no way to know which DB submissions were valid- that is a big issue- RR treats a submission from a long term member who has ties to the agencies using the system in question- whether that is myself, exsmokey, or some of the other who have walked away silent, the same as a brand new member with no history with RR and no vetting of there ability to provide quality data.
Your DBA's mistreating valued submitters is why certain areas data - Minneapolis area- has so many errors and very few updates anymore.

Steve
 

mikewazowski

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I completely understand.

However, if you had an issue in a retail store and didn't like the clerk's response, would you settle or bring the issue up with their supervisor?
 

stmills

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Mike,
I look at it a bit differently- I am not a customer of RR- that would be your database subscribers, Uniden and the other companies who pay RR for DB access. My role as a database provider is that of unpaid employee, with the DBAs taking the role of Managers. In the employment world when I have had a boss who has treated me with great disrespect and nothing changes when they are called on it - I am left with 2 options - I either stick with the job full well knowing the company representative is going to treat me poorly, or I move on to a different job- in this instance I chose the same choice I have made in my professional world when faced with disrespectful management - I moved on to greener pastures. Now if I were a paid subscriber - consumer- and was mistreated I would escalate the complaint because that is my only option other than cancelling my service with you.
Again
I tried to address my issue with the RR manager over my area and when that failed the best option available was to go off on my own. I have posted many time about this issue and have heard from quite a few other who stopped submitting over similar issues. Did I seek out to figure out who the DBA reported to? No I did not, since the issues escalated by the public posting of the DBA - I have always been aware of the posting of my admins on my site- I felt - and maybe incorrectly- DBAs public posting would be monitored by there manager since the DBA is the voice of RR.
 

cajunjerry

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Former United States forest service firefighter,things are always changing on frequencies. I was with Huron Manistee N F out of Michigan now back in my home state of louisiana I am always looking for correct wild land ff frequencies. .thanks yall. .or in Louisiana, merci beacoups
 
F

FormerExsmokey

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This is Exsmokey. I've created this account for this one message. I've deleted my Exsmokey account and will no longer be active on the site. I will be deactivating this account as well. I've decided that enough is enough and that trying to improve the database is a futile effort. I've posted on database administration forum threads many times and was given answers that I was correct on many issues, most in fact, but nothing changes. I've seen the answer, "well Lindsay owns the site and if you don't like it leave." The trouble with that answer is that the site is more than Lindsay as so many of us have devoted a lot of time to making submissions and writing the Wiki articles, but if that really doesn't count, for me that means its time to quit.

This site is a gathering of volunteers and the database relies on volunteers. The database is sold to vendors. Under those circumstances you would think that those volunteers, especially those who have had public safety careers, who are experts and many like me that still have the best sources available on various agencies would be treated like they are needed. I don't find that to be the case.

One last observation of the site. It seems like database administrators have little fiefdoms that they protect. These administrators also have the authority to issue infractions and if they don't like you they will issue them. Unlike myself, I don't think most have ever written publications for direct public consumption other than perhaps computer directions, which for me, I find very poorly written most of the time. This is not their fault as they have different skill sets than those who have worked directly with the public in a high volume way right where the rubber meets the road.

I have the best of sources, have written dozens of map narratives, brochures, have staffed booths at such shows as the Anaheim RV and Sports Show and county fairs and have helped a few book authors with edits to their manuscripts. I used to make 3,000 field contacts per year and could evaluate the effectiveness of our publication and educational efforts. I used to present "ranger talks." I only say this because I understand what it takes to communicate. Additionally, I worked a season at Sequoia-Kings Canyon National Park and had a career where I did some work for 2 other National Parks and 3 BLM districts and my paycheck was funded by those agencies when I did. I understand how these agencies operate. I've been on over 110 wildland fires (including 5 weeks in Yellowstone NP supervising an army fire crew in 1988), was a Type IV incident commander, IC'ed traffic accidents, shootings, the beginning states of search and rescues, suicides and worked on floods and other misc. incidents. There are others that are RR members with similar experience who I've corresponded with who became frustrated with making database submissions and who cut back on the time they spent on the site for the same reasons that I'm frustrated by.

To all those who I've corresponded with and met in person over the years, it has been a pleasure. There is more to life than the radio hobby and I'm going to be spending my time elsewhere. I have so many interests and only one life.
 

QDP2012

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This is Exsmokey. I've created this account for this one message. I've deleted my Exsmokey account and will no longer be active on the site...

Exsmokey, Sorry to see you go. Enjoy your other hobbies to the fullest.

Best Regards,
 

mikewazowski

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One last observation of the site. It seems like database administrators have little fiefdoms that they protect. These administrators also have the authority to issue infractions and if they don't like you they will issue them.


Just to clarify, only moderators can issue infractions and very few database admins are also moderators.

Despite his claims that he has received infractions for suggesting changes to the database, ExSmokey has only received two infractions neither of which had anything to do with the database.
 

northzone

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I also stopped submitting info for the database because of the rude actions of one database admin. Ex-smokey knows who I am talking about as he has had the same problems with the same admin.

After 25 years in government radio systems I have solid, confirmed information but no longer post it to this site.
 
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