Oil & Gas Portables / Radio Systems

[meltingfreezing]

We're looking at a radio system upgrade and I'm curious at what others in the Oil & Gas industry are using. We're familiar with Motorola XPR7580s on a Cap Max trunked system, and even APX4000s on an Astro25 System.

Anyone using Kenwood, VF Johnson, Hytera, or even Tait? They obviously need to be rated as intrinsically safe. Any advantages over Motorola?

 

[DeoVindice]

Any of the above will come in below APX cost-wise, and EF Johnson equipment is friendlier to program. Tait hasn't broken into the US market very much, however, IIRC their high-end DMR portable uses the same hardware as their P25 models. They're very popular in Australian mines.

I had serious issues with 7550s on a Capacity Plus system in a process environment with H2S hazards but that did not require IS equipment. The volume/power and channel knobs were prone to being bumped, causing undesired channel changes and shutdowns. I would consider soft power down (Motorola and EFJ's term, other manufacturers may have different terminology) to be mandatory for a portable used in a hazardous environment.

We also saw about 5-10% missed calls on that system. I suspect it was a backhaul issue and operators on a different site from the radio keying up would miss the traffic.

 

[meltingfreezing]

Interesting that you mention that about the 7550s as that is one of the complaints we are getting too. In addition, many of the batteries don't last a 12 hour shift and there's concerns about audio quality as many areas have a lot of background noise. The current Cap Plus system we're upgrading also has noticeable PTT call setup times, but it's hard to get reliable data on that or any guarantees. Some old guys remember the previous analog system and how instanteous it was. Analysis of the channel usage indicate it's not overused.

Hytera advertises a recording feature that gets around that; can start talking immediately and it is sent once the call is set up.

My personal annoyance with Motorola is the proprietary rights and how you get locked into their products. We didn't get out money's worth out of the current system. There's no denying IMHO that the APX4000 isn't a really good radio, though, and for DMR the 7550 isn't bad either.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

It really depends on what you need and what you are looking for. A lot of Kenwood system sales (especially oil/gas) are going through EF Johnson. The real question, are you wanting to fork lift your system or gradually change it out (change some subscribers now and phase the rest in over time)? Right now, your only option for Viking hardware is to go with an Atlas system. NXDN and DMR right now can only be done with NX hardware (more difficult to program) on the subscriber side. For DMR Tier 3, right now you'd be looking at a Tait Tier 3 system (sold through EFJ) with NX series subscribers.

 

[Firebuff880]

I had serious issues with 7550s on a Capacity Plus system in a process environment with H2S hazards but that did not require IS equipment. The volume/power and channel knobs were prone to being bumped, causing undesired channel changes and shutdowns. I would consider soft power down (Motorola and EFJ's term, other manufacturers may have different terminology) to be mandatory for a portable used in a hazardous environment.

We also saw about 5-10% missed calls on that system. I suspect it was a backhaul issue and operators on a different site from the radio keying up would miss the traffic.

If you look at the M2021 firmware releases you will see a number of "enhancements" available including but not limited to ;

Virtual Channel Stop - Left to Channel 1 - Right to Channel x. Tone notifies the use when they reach the stop.
Key Pad / Knob Lock - You now have the ability to lock either or both from a setting. I use BOTH in Tag Out / Lock out environments.
Not New but Channel Announce - So a user knows they have changed channels and to what channel.
Caller / Talker Alias -- Reduces the complexity of the Code plug contacts section.
Numerous other "enhancements" that like any other digital software based device means PM and staying current, not bleeding edge, is important.

Your missed calls on a Multi-Site Capacity Plus system could be any number of issues. Including backhaul, subscribers in a local group call already, subscribers in a Private Call, and the System Master Group processing attributes not set correctly.

I don't think the newly announced R7 has an IS model, at leat not yet, and there is no 800 support there either yet. But it does address some of the audio quality issues mentioned here and is the replacement for the 7000 line in which the NON e models are EOL.

 

[PACNWDude]

I worked radio comms for the oil and gas industry for ten years, and it was dominated by Motorola: analog conventional, P25 ASTRO and DMR toward the end. However, initially it was sometimes dual band Vertex Duo and Yaesu FTH-2070 VHF/UHF IS rated radios. Dual band in one radio was great, but the industry was still very much Motorola, with some people carrying multiple radios to cover VHF, UHF, and sometimes 800 MHz. Vehicles and fixed locations often had one of each, mobile radios, along with horse trailers and commercial construction trailers being equipped as mobile comm suites. I even had to maintain Motorola Centracom dispatch gear, later Gai-tronics and Telex/Bosch communications dispatch consoles on board oil industry related vessels and fixed sites.

British Petroleum was pushing for Trbo XPR6550 handhelds as of 2010, with many others following by the 2013 12.5kHz narrow-banding mandate. XPR6580 and XPR7580/e have become more popular, as 800 MHz works better in the production environment, higher frequency gets around the metal piping and machinery better than UHF XPR6550/7550/e radios.

Some support entities tried going Hytera to their demise with the Motorola lawsuits. The attempt was to save money and have more handheld radios for use on anti-pollution ships, that respond to oil spills. Another issues was the need to support DMR, and have an appropriate interface with dispatch consoles. Telex had their Trbi adapter for MotoTrbo, and Telex wanted users to migrate from IP-223 IP interface devices to IP-224 interface devices, which meant a lot of money to upgrade. An issue in the oil and gas industry was the divergence between those that went or stayed P25 and those that went DMR, sometimes within the same company but different regions of the country.

Now, I work in another industry where there is still a need to interface Motorola radios in an industrial environment, and sites across the United States. However, Zetron IP interface gear allows for ASTRO and Trbo to be combined, with radios in analog mode to pass MDC ID's correctly. Motorola still appears to dominate when production environments, machinery, and the need to keep reverse compatibility with legacy Motorola gear is needed.

 

[DeoVindice]

If you look at the M2021 firmware releases you will see a number of "enhancements" available including but not limited to ;

Virtual Channel Stop - Left to Channel 1 - Right to Channel x. Tone notifies the use when they reach the stop.
Key Pad / Knob Lock - You now have the ability to lock either or both from a setting. I use BOTH in Tag Out / Lock out environments.
Not New but Channel Announce - So a user knows they have changed channels and to what channel.
Caller / Talker Alias -- Reduces the complexity of the Code plug contacts section.
Numerous other "enhancements" that like any other digital software based device means PM and staying current, not bleeding edge, is important.

Your missed calls on a Multi-Site Capacity Plus system could be any number of issues. Including backhaul, subscribers in a local group call already, subscribers in a Private Call, and the System Master Group processing attributes not set correctly.

I don't think the newly announced R7 has an IS model, at leat not yet, and there is no 800 support there either yet. But it does address some of the audio quality issues mentioned here and is the replacement for the 7000 line in which the NON e models are EOL.

Keypad lock was implemented, knob lock was not. I went round and round with the radio shop on that last year; they insisted knob lock is not possible. That same radio shop couldn't get a 4550 working in a control room and uses quarterwaves in NGP applications so I'm not especially shocked.

The contacts list is not populated and the prevalence of 1st-generation subscribers, especially in base/mobile applications, means Talker Alias isn't a cure-all.

In that plant, we never changed talkgroups and private calling is not implemented on this system. I could key up with process- or safety-critical information and half the crew would hear, half would not.

I've since moved on to a different position at the same operation and exclusively use 4550s and 5550s on a different set of sites. The difference is night and day.

 

[Firebuff880]

Keypad lock was implemented, knob lock was not. I went round and round with the radio shop on that last year; they insisted knob lock is not possible. That same radio shop couldn't get a 4550 working in a control room and uses quarterwaves in NGP applications so I'm not especially shocked.

The contacts list is not populated and the prevalence of 1st-generation subscribers, especially in base/mobile applications, means Talker Alias isn't a cure-all.

In that plant, we never changed talkgroups and private calling is not implemented on this system. I could key up with process- or safety-critical information and half the crew would hear, half would not.

I've since moved on to a different position at the same operation and exclusively use 4550s and 5550s on a different set of sites. The difference is night and day.

So Keyboard / Knob lock options most defiantly are implemented in the 5000/7000 R7 and maybe a few other models..
Under General => Control Buttons => ControlButtons ==> General ==> Keyboard Lock Options

Correct if you have not done PM on the repeaters and/or Gen-2 radios, or have Gen-1 radios then Talker / Caller Alias does not work as the Voice Packet Header changed and with out the correct firmware the device has no idea how to process the packet.

Drop call analysis is an art and requires much more than we should get into on this hobby site...

Get rid of the 4000 series units. Even the Non-e 5000s are about to be left behind like the 4/6 were at R1.12.17 previously.

 

[TampaTyron]

I have done dozens of oil and gas systems with several radios shops (current role) as well as with Motorola direct (former role). Like has been said above, it is a mix of systems with 90% of the ones I have touched are MOTOTRBO (Cap Plus, LCP, and some Cap Max) and the other 10% are P25 APX radios. The new R7 MOTOTRBO radio has absolutely amazing high noise performance. The current firmware for the 7000 series is terrible for high noise (compared to FW 2.10). TT