Onondaga County Trunked Reception

[k2hz]

You'll have to excuse the stupidity of this question as I am new to the whole digital scanner game. Does this mean I would be better off getting rid of these radios for something like a SDS200? Or would a Yagi be my next logical step? Again you'll have to excuse my questions. I'm maybe about 6 months into this and there is still a lot I don't understand yet, or haven't grasped the concept of.

Typical scanners can not properly demodulate simulcast P25 signals so reception is never perfect. It may be acceptable under ideal conditions for casual monitoring. So antennas and changing location may help but not fully resolve the issues.

Only 2 scanner manufacturers claim to have scanners designed to work with this type of system. The Uniden SDS100/200 do indeed properly demodulate the signal but have other design flaws, primarily overload in the presence of other strong local signals. I have a SDS100 that gives excellent reception of Monroe East and South but cuts out on Monroe West, Ontario and Genesee whenever there is a lot of activity on nearby systems.

The Unication radios use the same general design as professional P25 radios. I do not own one but all reports I have heard say performance is very good. I have strongly recommended the Unication to users in the Fire and EMS service and all seem happy with them. They are marketed as "pagers" and have some differences from a typical scanner so they may not be appropriate for someone who's primary interest is in general scanning.

The other alternative for hobby monitoring is use of SDR devices with a computer and appropriate software. Inexpensive RTL devices have the same overload issue as the Uniden SDS scanners which are also based on these devices. More expensive SDR devices mitigate but do not eliminate this issue. Software performance also varies. SDRTrunk (T-P25) is used on the Broadcastify Calls feed of the Onondaga P25 CNYICC system and sounds very good.

 

[R0am3r]

The SDS200 is probably the best option for you. It will properly decode P25 simulcast signals and offers you the flexibility of listening to non-CNYICC systems. With a decent antenna, you will likely hear radio traffic from most (all?) of the surrounding counties. Please note if you want to monitor NXDN and DMR systems, you will have to pay for the license upgrades.

 

[bradjtrammell]

Update: My problem was solved by switching from an outdoor rooftop antenna to a magnetic base mobile antenna from Amazon. So clearly my issue is either the cabling to the mast, or the antenna itself. Either way, I have perfect reception on the entire system now, and will be planning a replacement of the outdoor antenna system in the spring time.

Thank you to everyone for your help!

 

[Thunderknight]

So clearly my issue is either the cabling to the mast, or the antenna itself.

The antenna and cable may be fine - it may have just been you had too much signal for the scanner given the simulcast nature.
Try your outside antenna on non-simulcast frequencies. Maybe NOAA Weather radio, a campus based DMR system, etc.

 

[k2hz]

The antenna and cable may be fine - it may have just been you had too much signal for the scanner given the simulcast nature.
Try your outside antenna on non-simulcast frequencies. Maybe NOAA Weather radio, a campus based DMR system, etc.

Excellent advice! I sent him a PM with the same info.

 

[bradjtrammell]

Excellent advice! I sent him a PM with the same info.

The antenna and cable may be fine - it may have just been you had too much signal for the scanner given the simulcast nature.
Try your outside antenna on non-simulcast frequencies. Maybe NOAA Weather radio, a campus based DMR system, etc.

Thank you both. I appreciate your insight, and apologies for the extreme delay. I happened upon these messages (I never got an email of their posting). The issue was in fact the antenna itself. I ordered a Tram 1411 to install on my mast which arrived yesterday, and without it even being on my roof, I have a consistent 99% signal on my WS1065, and my WS1040. Both of which were getting wavering signal levels between 60% and 90% (even with being in such close proximity to the Cicero, NY tower). My assumption is that the original antenna was either a piece of junk, or not tuned for the frequencies I was trying to receive. However this wideband antenna seems to be doing a great job.

I ran a temporary line and set the antenna on my roof at about the height and cable length it will use when installed just to see if there would be a performance drop, and the signals are still crystal clear and locked at 99%. I'm even getting Oswego County's towers clear as day now! I'm using RG6 cabling for my run to the mast, I assume RG8 is the best (after what I've read), but RG6 seems to be working well.

I had 100ft of RG58/59 I had planned to use, but I think I'll stick with the RG6 if it's going to work just as good, if not better.

 

[k2hz]

RG6 is readily available and has less loss than RG58/59. While RG8 is theoretically superior since it is 50 Ohm vs 75 Ohm for RG6, and scanners are nominally 50 Ohm input it does not seem to matter. Correct impedance cable is important for transmitting applications and in systems where all components are the correct impedance. But, broadband scanner antennas are rarely 50 Ohm over their entire range and the same with scanner input impedance. Many years ago Bob Grove, the publisher of Monitoring Times, advocated use of RG6 as a good low cost solution with generally lower loss for scanner use. He did some tests on scanners and found the input impedance was rarely 50 Ohms so lower loss RG6 was superior to most readily available low cost 50 Ohm cables at that time. Recently available 50 Ohm "LMR" series cables are the best for longer runs or transmitting applications but generally more expensive. Basic RG58 and RG59 are really only good for short runs.

But, for simulcast P25 reception, cable loss does not matter as much as being fortunate to have the antenna at a spot with minimum simulcast distortion if you are not using a scanner designed to properly receive P25 LSM.

 

[scan1806]

Try turnning off the attentuator